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Old 10-04-2018, 11:40 PM   #1
Cristina Geeze
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HELP ME! (Questions for short film!)

Hi friends,

I'm working on a new, experimental short called Hermit. You can check out deets here:


And I'm so excited to be moving into the development phase!!

I am going to be renting out equipment and I am realizing that AUDIO is going to be tough at times because a lot of scenes will take place outdoors (where there's wind, birds, construction buzz, and people!!).

Any tips for getting better quality audio when filming outside? Are shotgun mics a good option?

(Video tips are nice, too!)

Thank you for reading
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Old 10-05-2018, 01:02 AM   #2
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Old 10-05-2018, 08:08 AM   #3
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Welcome to IndieTalk!
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Old 10-05-2018, 11:38 AM   #4
The Tune Peddler
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Welcome.

I'm a composer, so I don't have a ton of experience recording sound in the field. However, I've talked to a number of pros about some of these issues (filming outdoors, best mics, etc). A good shotgun mic will help, because it's pickup pattern is very tight. If you're unfamiliar with what that means, basically, it will reject a lot of the unwanted sound and focus on what you point it at.

Even if you get a great mic though, you'll still run into trouble and get some noisy audio. It's just the cost of shooting outdoors. So, you might want to get in touch with an audio guy who can clean up your audio. There are incredible de-noising tools now that are almost like photoshop for audio. You can basically paint away certain sounds in an audio waveform: bugs, pops, wind.

If you want to go the diy approach, you could learn one of the programs yourself. Izotope RX is INCREDIBLE for this kind of thing. I believe you can download a demo and try it out, This way you could do a test run, record some audio outside, and make sure your going to be able to get what you want.

I hope this helps. Have a great shoot!!!
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Old 10-05-2018, 11:42 AM   #5
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If you are raising money to make this the right way you should consider hiring a sound person for the job.

Put it this way. If I was considering donating I'd be hesitant knowing that the final product may not be professional from your own admissions of not knowing sound and asking about mics. I'd wonder why you didn't want to make a pro short. Kind of like donating to someone's dream of opening a bakery but they ask for a cookie recipe.
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Old 10-05-2018, 11:53 AM   #6
Cristina Geeze
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indietalk View Post
If you are raising money to make this the right way you should consider hiring a sound person for the job.

Put it this way. If I was considering donating I'd be hesitant knowing that the final product may not be professional from your own admissions of not knowing sound and asking about mics. I'd wonder why you didn't want to make a pro short. Kind of like donating to someone's dream of opening a bakery but they ask for a cookie recipe.
The plan is to raise money to make this the right way so, yes, I am bringing on professionals!

This post is just to get some outside opinions from you guys

I've already done a heck tonne of research and I do have experience with music production (I have an EP!) But I like to keep learning and thought it would be nice to do more besides just self-promote.

Thanks for the feedback!
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Old 10-05-2018, 11:57 AM   #7
Cristina Geeze
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Tune Peddler View Post
Welcome.

I'm a composer, so I don't have a ton of experience recording sound in the field. However, I've talked to a number of pros about some of these issues (filming outdoors, best mics, etc). A good shotgun mic will help, because it's pickup pattern is very tight. If you're unfamiliar with what that means, basically, it will reject a lot of the unwanted sound and focus on what you point it at.

Even if you get a great mic though, you'll still run into trouble and get some noisy audio. It's just the cost of shooting outdoors. So, you might want to get in touch with an audio guy who can clean up your audio. There are incredible de-noising tools now that are almost like photoshop for audio. You can basically paint away certain sounds in an audio waveform: bugs, pops, wind.

If you want to go the diy approach, you could learn one of the programs yourself. Izotope RX is INCREDIBLE for this kind of thing. I believe you can download a demo and try it out, This way you could do a test run, record some audio outside, and make sure your going to be able to get what you want.

I hope this helps. Have a great shoot!!!
This is amazing advice thank you so much!!

I am looking into a shotgun mic and was hoping to make my own fur windscreen muff. But It's great to know that a lot can be touched up in post!

I'll definitely check out that program

Thanks again!!!
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Old 10-06-2018, 08:54 AM   #8
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The biggest issue is that, no matter how much YOU learn about production sound, or how much equipment you buy, you are always going to have to hand it off to someone else when you get on location. Then you are at the mercy of their knowledge, skills and dedication. Almost the only way you are going to get solid production sound is to retain someone who is experienced and equipped.

BTW, having experience with music production doesn't give you any insights at all about production sound or audio post. I had 25+ years as a working musician and another six or so as a music recording engineer before migrating to sound-for-picture. I most definitely had a knack for audio post (that's how I earn my living these days), but, even after numerous production sound gigs, I became a pretty good PSM I never became proficient at being a boom-op despite all of my previous audio experience.

So, to repeat myself, you need to retain an experienced PSM/Boom-Op. It is almost the only way you are going to capture quality production sound.

If you are dead set on doing the production sound yourself you can start with "The Location Sound Bible" by Ric Viers. It's a good overview of what you are getting yourself into.

https://www.amazon.com/Location-Soun.../dp/1615931201

Last edited by Alcove Audio; 10-07-2018 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 10-06-2018, 09:22 AM   #9
Cristina Geeze
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Originally Posted by Alcove Audio View Post
The biggest issue is that, no matter how much YOU learn about production sound, or how much equipment you buy, you are always going to have to hand it off to someone else when you get on location. Then you are at the mercy of their knowledge, skills and dedication. Almost the only way you are going to get solid production sound is to retain someone who is experienced and equipped.

BTW, having experience with music production doesn't give you any insights at all about production sound or audio post. I had 25+ years as a working musician and another six or so as a music recording engineer before migrating to sound-for-picture. I most definitely had a knack for audio post (that's how I evan my living these days), but, even after numerous production sound gigs, I became a pretty good PSM I never became proficient at being a boom-op despite all of my previous audio experience.

So, to repeat myself, you need to retain an experienced PSM/Boom-Op. It is almost the only way you are going to capture quality production sound.

If you are dead set on doing the production sound yourself you can start with "The Location Sound Bible" by Ric Viers. It's a good overview of what you are getting yourself into.

https://www.amazon.com/Location-Soun.../dp/1615931201
Thanks for the reply!

This makes a lot of sense and, depending on the outcome of my grant applications and fundraising, I do intend to bring on professionals.

I am at the mercy of my budgetary restrictions for the time being. But any/all little tips and tricks are appreciated so I will definitely check out that book.
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Old 10-06-2018, 01:22 PM   #10
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I'm going to hit you with my typical Uncle Bob clichés.


Your project will only look as good as it sounds, because
"Sound is half of the experience"

If your film looks terrible but has great sound, people might just think it's your aesthetic.
If your film looks great and has bad sound, people will think you're an amateur.
Sound is the first indicator to the industry that you know what you're doing.

Sound is the easiest thing to get wrong and the hardest thing to get right. Out of our five senses you only have two - sight and sound - with which to influence your audience.

Capturing solid production sound means that your DX edit will be an artistic endeavor instead of a rescue mission. For every dollar/minute you spend on production sound you save ten dollars/minutes in audio post. Since you're on a limited budget production sound is where you should put your resources.
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Old 10-06-2018, 02:13 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alcove Audio View Post
I'm going to hit you with my typical Uncle Bob clichés.


Your project will only look as good as it sounds, because
"Sound is half of the experience"

If your film looks terrible but has great sound, people might just think it's your aesthetic.
If your film looks great and has bad sound, people will think you're an amateur.
Sound is the first indicator to the industry that you know what you're doing.

Sound is the easiest thing to get wrong and the hardest thing to get right. Out of our five senses you only have two - sight and sound - with which to influence your audience.

Capturing solid production sound means that your DX edit will be an artistic endeavor instead of a rescue mission. For every dollar/minute you spend on production sound you save ten dollars/minutes in audio post. Since you're on a limited budget production sound is where you should put your resources.
I love these quotes and the insights that followed.
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Old 10-06-2018, 03:44 PM   #12
Alcove Audio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peacemaker View Post
I love these quotes and the insights that followed.
Thank you.
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Old 10-09-2018, 03:25 PM   #13
Cristina Geeze
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alcove Audio View Post
I'm going to hit you with my typical Uncle Bob clichés.


Your project will only look as good as it sounds, because
"Sound is half of the experience"

If your film looks terrible but has great sound, people might just think it's your aesthetic.
If your film looks great and has bad sound, people will think you're an amateur.
Sound is the first indicator to the industry that you know what you're doing.

Sound is the easiest thing to get wrong and the hardest thing to get right. Out of our five senses you only have two - sight and sound - with which to influence your audience.

Capturing solid production sound means that your DX edit will be an artistic endeavor instead of a rescue mission. For every dollar/minute you spend on production sound you save ten dollars/minutes in audio post. Since you're on a limited budget production sound is where you should put your resources.
Eyes sore from grant applications and donations are coming in at a pretty awesome rate!! I am so thankful for all the feedback and support!!
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Old 10-09-2018, 03:28 PM   #14
Cristina Geeze
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UPDATE - Hermit Short Film

A big thank you AND a little sneak peek in this teaser video!


I’m documenting the behind-the-scenes process for “Hermit” and here is a little preview of how I went about making the “leggies” for a quick scene in the film. (YES there will be stop-motion/puppetry!!!) (DUH, it’s me!)

Hermit pre-production is still underway but I’m so excited to be getting into the nitty gritty of filmmaking; that includes casting, prop making, costume shopping, and processing equipment rentals. Each and every donation on the gofundme page has contributed so much already and I am so thankful. Even a simple share of this video helps so much! Words of encouragement are also a form of currency that I DEFINITELY accept.
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