This looks pretty friggin' awesome. It's supposed to have improved pre-amps too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBfJveLuANk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBfJveLuANk
Zoom H6
- Thread starter LasVegasIRA
- Start date
Received it, and did a quick unboxing and a couple tests.
I'm pretty sure it's less noisy than the tascam DR40, but my room sound is noisy and I have a bird which can get really loud at unexpected times. I'm certain the preamps are hotter -- using the same condenser mic, I could get a lot more volume. (Gain doesn't mean it's less noisy, of course, but I suspect it is anyway.) Set to get the same output level I had on my DR-40 at the same distance with the same mic, there's very little hiss.
But the main reason I got this was because of the issue I had on several tracks while recording a movie -- the tascam had some subtle beeping around 3000Hz. I think a notch filter will remove that, but it was definitely annoying. Guitar Center was great about taking it back and ordering the Zoom.
I don't know anyone with a DR-60D to test this H6 against. I'll ping the locals and see.
Interestingly, I noticed that there's a tiny bit more hiss on input 2-4 than 1 with no inputs. I need to test it with a muted mic.
Overall, the form factor seems good, build is solid, and the 4 inputs + options seems like a great deal. I did look at the 60D, and maybe I should've gone for that, but the (potential) 6 XLRs vs half that on the 60D (2 XLR + one ganged minijack) seemed like a pretty good thing to have, even if the optional +2 XLRs don't have phantom.
From my minimal testing so far, here's what I like:
Here's what I don't like:
Things I'm going to check on:
Things I want that it doesn't have:
I'm pretty sure it's less noisy than the tascam DR40, but my room sound is noisy and I have a bird which can get really loud at unexpected times. I'm certain the preamps are hotter -- using the same condenser mic, I could get a lot more volume. (Gain doesn't mean it's less noisy, of course, but I suspect it is anyway.) Set to get the same output level I had on my DR-40 at the same distance with the same mic, there's very little hiss.
But the main reason I got this was because of the issue I had on several tracks while recording a movie -- the tascam had some subtle beeping around 3000Hz. I think a notch filter will remove that, but it was definitely annoying. Guitar Center was great about taking it back and ordering the Zoom.
I don't know anyone with a DR-60D to test this H6 against. I'll ping the locals and see.
Interestingly, I noticed that there's a tiny bit more hiss on input 2-4 than 1 with no inputs. I need to test it with a muted mic.
Overall, the form factor seems good, build is solid, and the 4 inputs + options seems like a great deal. I did look at the 60D, and maybe I should've gone for that, but the (potential) 6 XLRs vs half that on the 60D (2 XLR + one ganged minijack) seemed like a pretty good thing to have, even if the optional +2 XLRs don't have phantom.
From my minimal testing so far, here's what I like:
- Many XLRs, and even though they don't lock, they attach solidly. Maybe continued use will affect this, but it feels solid.
- Good form factor. Feels like a streamlined tricorder. Loops can be added to hang it from your neck or belt, but not included.
- Solid build. Plastic, but sturdy. Feels rubberized, so it's not slippery and won't show scratches.
- Hot preamps. This gives some wiggle room depending on your mics.
- "Seems" like it has decent noise floor. I haven't tested this quantitatively yet. Feels better than the tascam DR40, and it's way better than the zoom h4n. Most charts place the DR40 and h4n noise floors the same, so it should be much better.
- Good pots. Very smooth. I can see getting confused, though... there is a gap between input pairs 1-2 and 3-4 where your fingers can turn the dials easily. As expected, clockwise is up, counter-clockwise is down. But when you're turning inputs 1-2, swiping your finger down turns them up. But on inputs 3-4, swiping your finger down, turns them down. I'm going to mess this up at a critical time.
- Line out and headphone out with volume... no pot, but shouldn't be too annoying.
- Intuitive basic controls.
- Input switches for each ... really straightforward! Mixes the inputs into the headphones. Haven't tested the L/R for the individual inputs, which would make separating them apart very easy.
- Nice color display. It will be really nice on a dark set, since I couldn't see a damn thing in the dark on the tascam except the record button.
- Optional XLR module is cheap.
- X-Y mic feels overbuilt and sturdy. Oddly large mics, too.
- Solid carrying box, although unpadded.
- Startup time isn't stupid.
Here's what I don't like:
- Display is a little bit small with all the VU meters jammed into a tiny screen. It is a little difficult to see levels clearly.
- Mid-side mic feels like a toy. It needs a wire cage. I expect this to break if abused even a little.
- While there's a big improvement, inputs still seem noisier than I want. Maybe I'm just spoiled from playing with studio gear, so I shouldn't knock the field recorders.
- The one time I forget to verify a connection, I'm going to lose an XLR since it didn't lock in.
- Attaching the optional shotgun just seems like a bad idea. This thing is sensitive, and picks up a lot of handling noise.
- Despite the handling noise mentioned above, I'd love just a single omni built-in, for emergency recording like the DR100mk2 (ignoring the fact the dr100 also has cardiods).
- Could get a little unwieldy with more than two XLRs attached.
- Occasional blast of bass when switching inputs (even when they're turned down).
Things I'm going to check on:
- Can it work as a USB mic for my computer, or is that only for transferring files?
- Does LR fading work properly for each individual input? I'm assuming yes.
- Can I easily turn on/off the display to save batteries, without having to go through a menu?
- What's the battery life using my Eneloops and phantom?
- What happens to the current recording when batteries die? How much warning is there? How accurate is the warning?
- Is the included software (Cubase 6LE) useful?
- Does the clock drift?
- Formatting options, saving options, dual-mono mode, etc.
Things I want that it doesn't have:
- I want a very small, protection cover for the front pins when using without the separate H6 mics. Easily designed - just a piece of plastic that clips into the clip spaces.
- I want a cover to guard the pots from turning -- basically a finger guard where it's easy to turn with a fingertip, but difficult to turn if it brushes up against something, or when transporting. Looks like this can be easily attached, and the existing small finger guards removed with two screws.
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30db difference surprises me, but it sounds like there was no signal. In theory, that means it could have a much higher SNR, if I understand it correctly. Please post here when the video is ready!
But from my understanding, the important thing is not as much the noise floor, but the overall SNR with that noise floor. I had trouble with the DR40 because the preamps were pretty low and the noise was quite audible, giving a low signal to a fair amount of noise. With the H6, the noise is only a little lower, but the signal from my mic is very strong giving it (what seems like) a pretty decent SNR. I'm sure the 60D is better, but it's not going to be 30dbu better.
But, everything I've heard says the 60D has a good SNR. I just don't know if it's so much better to justify some of the problems with it compared to the H6:
- crappy battery life (2 hrs) vs good battery life (8 hrs)
- 2 locking XLR inputs and 1 minijack, vs 4+2 non-locking (2 non-phantom)
- digital stepped volume vs nice dampened pots means on-the-fly mixing is much more difficult
I knowingly traded off double the number of inputs for slightly worse SNR and much better battery life. Maybe that was a bad choice... We shall see
After using the DR40 and having to replace batteries every 2 hrs, it started getting really tedious. And 3 batteries compared to 4 is just silly, since I group all my eneloops in sets of 4 and my charger has to charge in pairs only. So, I learned that battery life is important to me.
Ya know.....
It's really nice that stef and mdifilm are providing everyone with information about the DR-60, H6, etc. But, from a realistic point of view, everyone is arguing over which piece of shit stinks the least. These are bargain basement budget units. And, also keep in mind, that the H6 is completely aimed at the music crowd, while the ergonomic design of the DR-60 (and hopefully the electronics) is specifically aimed at the advanced film/video hobbyist and the indie film crowd. They are two very different units.
In actual practice, when all is said and done as far as indie filmmakers are concerned, there will most probably be minimal audible differences between them. I very seriously doubt that if played the results of recordings made with both units using identical external mics and source material that 99.999999% of indie filmmakers could tell the difference in a blind audio test.
Uncle Bob will now try to get out of grumpy old fart mode.
It's really nice that stef and mdifilm are providing everyone with information about the DR-60, H6, etc. But, from a realistic point of view, everyone is arguing over which piece of shit stinks the least. These are bargain basement budget units. And, also keep in mind, that the H6 is completely aimed at the music crowd, while the ergonomic design of the DR-60 (and hopefully the electronics) is specifically aimed at the advanced film/video hobbyist and the indie film crowd. They are two very different units.
In actual practice, when all is said and done as far as indie filmmakers are concerned, there will most probably be minimal audible differences between them. I very seriously doubt that if played the results of recordings made with both units using identical external mics and source material that 99.999999% of indie filmmakers could tell the difference in a blind audio test.
Uncle Bob will now try to get out of grumpy old fart mode.
Liked your post Alcove Audio but I thought Uncle Bob was a tad overly grumpy/harsh given the budgets of most of the indie folks here:
For my budget, I went with a Tascam DR-40, Sound Devices MM1 and Audio Technica AT4053b (my feature was entirely shoot indoors). I think it was probably the 'best' gear I could get given my budget/requirements.
With audio gear, the DSLR, fast glass, lighting, tripods and all the gear we need, trying to produce a 'quality' budget indie film requires a lot of $$$$$$, many thousands.
For my budget, I'm happy with the Tascam DR-40 and the bang for buck it represents.
For my budget, I went with a Tascam DR-40, Sound Devices MM1 and Audio Technica AT4053b (my feature was entirely shoot indoors). I think it was probably the 'best' gear I could get given my budget/requirements.
With audio gear, the DSLR, fast glass, lighting, tripods and all the gear we need, trying to produce a 'quality' budget indie film requires a lot of $$$$$$, many thousands.
For my budget, I'm happy with the Tascam DR-40 and the bang for buck it represents.
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Lol to me I can hear the difference using the same mics and setting during testing for indie perspective. And I kept both as I use both for different environmnt and different application. I would not use the Zoom H6 outdoor cause you barely can see the screen. I had communication with Zoom when I told them it has more noise than the tascam and when I told hem about the 30db less noise on Tascam, they immediately said they are happy to issue me a refund. So maybe they know. Lol
I will have video posted soon
I will have video posted soon
I'd be interested in hearing what you find out about this - I lost audio on a 30 minute interview once when the batteries on my H4n died during recording. There was no warning and the file was just never written to the card.
Actually. They are trying to ask me to keep it... Video should be out tonight.
Thought that someone might be interested in that beeping noise from the tascam. I was guessing 4kHz, but it was between 5-5.5kHz.
(Not sure if this image will work or not. I don't see the ability to include attachments on this board. If you can't see it, it's a spectrum of the audio, with an obvious line around 5000 Hz.)
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