Assistant director or 2nd Unit director

Hey
I notice on imdb how many of these 2nd unit director and assistant director have been doing it for years. First what is the difference between 2nd Unit and assistant? 2ndly are these fields necessary to become a director because they seem like they are happy doing just that. Will I have to go beg to be allowed as anything on a set and later work my work through 3rd, 2nd and assistant(mainly to gain technical insight) or can I jump into the directors chair on my own movie if I have planned everything well in pre production.
 
Ummmm I've never done 2nd Unit size crews.... (Other than 2nd Unit being referred to the 2nd AD and his extras)

However, an Assistant Director is NOT a Director.

Think of it this way, the Director directs the Talent. Assistant Director (AD) directs the Crew.

An AD makes sure that set runs smoothly and that all departments are doing their best to keep the production on schedule.

Personally I see a lot of crews end up hating the AD by the end, but they are a pretty crucial part of any set that you'll be glad was there in the end.

If you join the DGA (Director's Guild of America) Trainee Program, they have you shadow ADs and 2nd ADs until you eventually are given the job on 1 or 3 sets (The kind of sets you want to be on, aka "Hollywood")... forgot which number of sets... (This can be applied for once every year).

Want to be a director? AD is not the way to that position. 2nd AD you'd at least get experience directing all the background and extras, which can help you become a director maybe, but you'll also be making Call Sheets and doing Scheduling in pre-pro.

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You can always just jump into a director's chair on your own project... if you personally have the experience it requires to be a director is another story...

It's said you need 10,000 hours of practice to master an art... You'll never master directing, but you should just aim to be better than your last shoot.
 
AD is a director's assistant in charge of numerous things but probably the most notable, scheduling and keeping things on track.

2nd Unit acts as a crew separate from the main crew, getting supplementary shots that don't require principal photography. This allows them to save money as they aren't wasting time on cutaways, scenic shots, etc while having expensive talent in their hands.

This is an incredible over simplification but hopefully a good basis. If you want to be a director, definitely don't seek out AD work. Second unit work would be good though.
 
Ummmm I've never done 2nd Unit size crews.... (Other than 2nd Unit being referred to the 2nd AD and his extras)

However, an Assistant Director is NOT a Director.

Think of it this way, the Director directs the Talent. Assistant Director (AD) directs the Crew.

An AD makes sure that set runs smoothly and that all departments are doing their best to keep the production on schedule.

Personally I see a lot of crews end up hating the AD by the end, but they are a pretty crucial part of any set that you'll be glad was there in the end.

If you join the DGA (Director's Guild of America) Trainee Program, they have you shadow ADs and 2nd ADs until you eventually are given the job on 1 or 3 sets (The kind of sets you want to be on, aka "Hollywood")... forgot which number of sets... (This can be applied for once every year).

Want to be a director? AD is not the way to that position. 2nd AD you'd at least get experience directing all the background and extras, which can help you become a director maybe, but you'll also be making Call Sheets and doing Scheduling in pre-pro.

----------------

You can always just jump into a director's chair on your own project... if you personally have the experience it requires to be a director is another story...

It's said you need 10,000 hours of practice to master an art... You'll never master directing, but you should just aim to be better than your last shoot.

kinda reminds me of dwight on the office. assistant to. point was not needed. Like all these positions on an indie set. we can play pretend tho cant we?
 
kinda reminds me of dwight on the office. assistant to. point was not needed. Like all these positions on an indie set. we can play pretend tho cant we?

You don't think an AD is needed? Even no budget shorts a lot of times have ADs. It's super helpful when you have someone making sure that a schedule is being followed and that you're not spending too much time on one thing.

If you have a friend willing to help, hand them your schedule and tell them to keep you on track. Sure they're not trained to be an AD, but they can essentially still be just as helpful. (Who knows perhaps they'll like it enough to actually learn to become an AD.)
 
You don't think an AD is needed? Even no budget shorts a lot of times have ADs. It's super helpful when you have someone making sure that a schedule is being followed and that you're not spending too much time on one thing.

If you have a friend willing to help, hand them your schedule and tell them to keep you on track. Sure they're not trained to be an AD, but they can essentially still be just as helpful. (Who knows perhaps they'll like it enough to actually learn to become an AD.)

no when i hear things like 2nd unit director and stuff like that. I've made films without an AD too. bigger ones than some people use to make their small ones. thats why i just think its pretend. If people spent time on actors locations instead of 10 people helping out on what 2 competent ppl should be able to. they might have something
 
no when i hear things like 2nd unit director and stuff like that. I've made films without an AD too. bigger ones than some people use to make their small ones. thats why i just think its pretend. If people spent time on actors locations instead of 10 people helping out on what 2 competent ppl should be able to. they might have something

I feel for indie stuff a 2nd unit is a bit silly in all regards, so agreed there. That kind of crew is only needed on larger crews with larger projects and higher budgets.

However, I'm no AD. Scheduling is horrible for me. So I have someone else do it, however, that someone else is also my 2nd AD, UPM, Location Scout, and 2nd AC.

Then my DP is also my Camera Operator (And most likely also my 1st AC, unless doing complicated moving scenes).

A lot of positions CAN be combined on smaller scale shoots, but it's good to know when you need to split these few competent people into a bunch of competent people doing a great job of what position their holding.
 
I feel for indie stuff a 2nd unit is a bit silly in all regards, so agreed there. That kind of crew is only needed on larger crews with larger projects and higher budgets.

However, I'm no AD. Scheduling is horrible for me. So I have someone else do it, however, that someone else is also my 2nd AD, UPM, Location Scout, and 2nd AC.

Then my DP is also my Camera Operator (And most likely also my 1st AC, unless doing complicated moving scenes).

A lot of positions CAN be combined on smaller scale shoots, but it's good to know when you need to split these few competent people into a bunch of competent people doing a great job of what position their holding.

So these are your friends? Cos no one's funding anyone's indie
 
So these are your friends? Cos no one's funding anyone's indie

I go to film school. Tons of like-minded friends practicing their crafts.

I produce my own stuff, using paychecks for budgets (primarily crafty, although I do hire my sound team, because sound isn't something I like taking a risk with). Although I will be working on a short soon that is funded by a local pastor, because the short has a religious theme.
 
To the OP: often Assistant means that that person does NOT do the same thing as the person who is being assisted. An assistent picks up activities that can interfere with what the assisted is doing. This could be bureaucratic of nature (taking notes) of physical (a camera assistant carrying the camera while nothing is being shot), etc.

@Dave:
I understand the 'let's pretend' sentiment: sometimes some people just seem to be hold back from shooting because they try to mimic a Hollywood shoot, while they can't find the people for it.
I like the hands on approach of keeping a crew small, but even on smaller narrative shoots with a couple of actors having an assistant just taking notes about each shot (both on image and sound) is really helpfull to speed things up on set and in post.
I'm not sure you English speaking people would call that an AD ;)
(You just can't always do everything with 2 persons.)

In fact there are more acronyms I'm not sure what they mean precisely :P
A few times I was on set as the 'asshole' (a strick, but polite one) that would yell: "Silence on set! Audio speed? Camera rolling?" do the clapper and keep track of time to stay on schedule. Ordering the Director, DP and camera assistent to eat NOW was fun, btw: they needed to hear that ;)
How would you call someone like that?
 
To the OP: often Assistant means that that person does NOT do the same thing as the person who is being assisted. An assistent picks up activities that can interfere with what the assisted is doing. This could be bureaucratic of nature (taking notes) of physical (a camera assistant carrying the camera while nothing is being shot), etc.

@Dave:
I understand the 'let's pretend' sentiment: sometimes some people just seem to be hold back from shooting because they try to mimic a Hollywood shoot, while they can't find the people for it.
I like the hands on approach of keeping a crew small, but even on smaller narrative shoots with a couple of actors having an assistant just taking notes about each shot (both on image and sound) is really helpfull to speed things up on set and in post.
I'm not sure you English speaking people would call that an AD ;)
(You just can't always do everything with 2 persons.)

In fact there are more acronyms I'm not sure what they mean precisely :P
A few times I was on set as the 'asshole' (a strick, but polite one) that would yell: "Silence on set! Audio speed? Camera rolling?" do the clapper and keep track of time to stay on schedule. Ordering the Director, DP and camera assistent to eat NOW was fun, btw: they needed to hear that ;)
How would you call someone like that?

Silence, Audio Speed, Camera Speed, and schedule is all AD.

Slate (Clapper) & Camera Note Taking is 2nd AC.

Sound Notes are Sound Mixer.

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Sounds like you were a mix of those three positions... which 2nd AC and AD are something I have mixed together on small crews... but Sound Mixer also? XD That's kinda weird. The person doing sound should be taking notes on sound haha
 
To the OP: often Assistant means that that person does NOT do the same thing as the person who is being assisted. An assistent picks up activities that can interfere with what the assisted is doing. This could be bureaucratic of nature (taking notes) of physical (a camera assistant carrying the camera while nothing is being shot), etc.

@Dave:
I understand the 'let's pretend' sentiment: sometimes some people just seem to be hold back from shooting because they try to mimic a Hollywood shoot, while they can't find the people for it.
I like the hands on approach of keeping a crew small, but even on smaller narrative shoots with a couple of actors having an assistant just taking notes about each shot (both on image and sound) is really helpfull to speed things up on set and in post.
I'm not sure you English speaking people would call that an AD ;)
(You just can't always do everything with 2 persons.)

In fact there are more acronyms I'm not sure what they mean precisely :P
A few times I was on set as the 'asshole' (a strick, but polite one) that would yell: "Silence on set! Audio speed? Camera rolling?" do the clapper and keep track of time to stay on schedule. Ordering the Director, DP and camera assistent to eat NOW was fun, btw: they needed to hear that ;)
How would you call someone like that?
my audio guy does that and i'm glad. I call him helpful :)
 
............

Sounds like you were a mix of those three positions... which 2nd AC and AD are something I have mixed together on small crews... but Sound Mixer also? XD That's kinda weird. The person doing sound should be taking notes on sound haha

I was directing and we had to walk around a lot with the crew, so I had an assistant taking notes on both image and sound for each take, so it was all in one place.
There wasn't a soundmixer: just 1 guy with a boom and recorder.
 
or can I jump into the directors chair on my own movie if I have planned everything well in pre production.
Many just jump into the directors chair by starting with short films
and no budget features. AD and 2nd Unit director are not fields
necessary to become a director.
I notice on imdb how many of these 2nd unit director and assistant director have been doing it for years.
Have you noticed on IMdB how many directors got their start
as AD's or 2nd unit directors? Look up your favorite directors. See if
they started as an AD or 2nd unit director.
 
I've made films without an AD too. bigger ones than some people use to make their small ones. thats why i just think its pretend. If people spent time on actors locations instead of 10 people helping out on what 2 competent ppl should be able to. they might have something

Neither I nor (I believe) anyone else here disputes that one person can make a film fulfilling all or many of the on set crew roles themselves, even a bigger film. What I do dispute is that they can do it "competently"!

At any level of filmmaking I would define "competent" as being able to make a film which is at least watchable. At the more professional filmmaking levels then "competent" means achieving not just a watchable film but one with a given level of commercial potential. An AD significantly improves the chances of achieving "competency", especially on a bigger project and, as we aim to make something beyond just watchable, so the dedicated role of AD becomes more invaluable. So too does the role of 2nd Unit Director, depending on the film and the level of efficiency required to maximise the commercial potential of the budget.

G
 
Neither I nor (I believe) anyone else here disputes that one person can make a film fulfilling all or many of the on set crew roles themselves, even a bigger film. What I do dispute is that they can do it "competently"!

At any level of filmmaking I would define "competent" as being able to make a film which is at least watchable. At the more professional filmmaking levels then "competent" means achieving not just a watchable film but one with a given level of commercial potential. An AD significantly improves the chances of achieving "competency", especially on a bigger project and, as we aim to make something beyond just watchable, so the dedicated role of AD becomes more invaluable. So too does the role of 2nd Unit Director, depending on the film and the level of efficiency required to maximise the commercial potential of the budget.

G

i think thats my point tho. most indie films get a bunch of people or friends who know what they are supposed to know. But these films arent watchable. hhmmm why is that? well i know cos competence is everything high level competence across different levels. That people just dont have. Film is a real creative art its not photography . Everyone watches movies everyone wants to have it but they dont
 
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