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Old 07-17-2018, 11:41 AM   #1
Dahvrok
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Fight Scene Question

Hello everyone, i have never worked in this industry before and wanted to work on a scene like
.
How did the makers make the hits look so real? I suspect fake skin tissue with some material underneath?

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Old 07-17-2018, 11:47 AM   #2
Kaiborg
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Sound effects? Most of the "hits" look like open hand slaps that are being thrown lightly, or actually miss... tbh. But honestly, sound effects go a long way to make it seem real.

The ones in slow motion... are in slow motion.

Another thing to consider is that the actor receiving the hit has to "sell" it, i.e. roll with the blow and make it look like it connected, even when it didn't or barely did. Kind of like how they do in Pro Wrestling, but with the benefit of only having to show it from one angle at a time.

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Old 07-17-2018, 12:01 PM   #3
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My thing with fight scenes... is that they never look realistic. If you've seen a lot of "real" stuff happen as I have, there's just no way to really compare the two. Real fights are either so quick and violent that they're more shocking than entertaining (like the first in this compilation), or they're just so messy and ridiculous as to be almost comical (like the others in this video).

And if you're talking about a "real" fight between trained fighters, that's another thing altogether. That will probably look more like a kickboxing match, which honestly isn't as entertaining as you might expect.

Warning: The following video contains real-life violence.






Here's a real fight between some youngsters who've had training. It's not exactly action packed.




IMO, if you want to learn quickly how to block an entertaining fight scene, study Professional Wrestling. They've been perfecting exactly this skill for a long time. Even when their gig goes off the rails and turns "real", it's still a thing to see. Behold:


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Old 07-17-2018, 12:02 PM   #4
Dahvrok
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Thank you, i mostly care about the look on the skin. I mean in order for the skin to look like this the blow may need to be a bit hard. At least looks like it.
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Old 07-17-2018, 12:17 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahvrok View Post
Thank you, i mostly care about the look on the skin. I mean in order for the skin to look like this the blow may need to be a bit hard. At least looks like it.
Yes, you are correct. To get that "shockwave effect" of the skin actually being hit, you'e got to make actual contact. Most times the impact is a lot softer than it appears, and the shot is shown in slow motion to help sell it.
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Old 07-17-2018, 01:58 PM   #6
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You must be correct, thank you for your answers They must chose a chubby guy in sherlock on purpose.
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Old 07-17-2018, 02:13 PM   #7
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Sound effects, choreography, stunt people(?), and Phantom camera/skilled DP(s).

http://www.phantomhighspeed.com/fren...-at-a-discount
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Old 07-17-2018, 02:41 PM   #8
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Whats the last one?
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Old 07-17-2018, 02:53 PM   #9
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Directors of Photography including Phantom camera.
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Old 07-17-2018, 04:51 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahvrok View Post
You must be correct, thank you for your answers They must chose a chubby guy in sherlock on purpose.
even skinny people will have a skin ripple effect on their face.. and yeah you've got to actually make contact for that to happen. some behind the scenes for different movie show a poor guy with ice pack on his face after the 5th take of being hit by donnie yen
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Old 07-17-2018, 04:56 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Kaiborg View Post
My thing with fight scenes... is that they never look realistic.
Realistic sometimes doesn't look right in movies. Perhaps we should use the term believable. "Is this a believable space ship?" or "Alien?" Because um WTF is a realistic alien??? But seriously the same applies to things we know as real. Sometimes we actually need to alter things to make them look believable which in reality does not exist.
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Old 07-17-2018, 06:09 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by indietalk View Post
Realistic sometimes doesn't look right in movies. Perhaps we should use the term believable. "Is this a believable space ship?" or "Alien?" Because um WTF is a realistic alien??? But seriously the same applies to things we know as real. Sometimes we actually need to alter things to make them look believable which in reality does not exist.

Oh, I agree. I'd say most if not all times "real" wouldn't really suit a movie because, movies are at their heart theatrical, and not necessarily "re-enactments". Found footage might be an exception, so a movie like "End of Watch" actually does need a realistic fight scene, which it basically did pull off. But that's the rare exception. Unless you're a total stick in the mud, it's more entertaining to see Donnie Yen beat up 20 guys with moves straight out of Street Fighter II...

That's sorta why I landed on "watch some Pro-Wrasslin'" in my original post, because for what it's worth, that's the quick lesson on how to block a theatrical "fight" that actually works in front of an audience.


to Dahvrok-
I might as well throw this in, you might find it informative;

A few things that will ruin a fight scene
1. Slow movement. Especially during longer shots where you can see the actor's slow relative speed against the background, as well as see if the film has been sped up. A wide shot will likely also show...

2. Awkward movement. Fluidity is king. This is almost more important than the first one, since anything (even poor blocking) might turn out okay if the actors are fluid

3. Poor framing. You can theoretically have your slow, sloppy, non-trained actor flail around a safe distance from the "target", and if it's framed right, it just might look okay. By contrast, there are a lot of very good high-budget fight scenes that are kind of ruined by framing that's too close. Those are like, what's going on? I just see sleeves flying around. You can also be too far, and have your actors awesome movement look too small in the frame.

4. No movement. It might seem obvious, but a lot of "bad" fight scenes are bad because the shot lingers to long on the actors doing... nothing. You know, doing things like (poorly) pretending to struggle, standing in a headlock, etc. This doesn't work, because fights are DYNAMIC. Movement is what you're showing the audience. It should be beautiful in it's violence, not unlike a dance. It might also be worth reminding your actors that a fight, especially in the context of most "stories" (and especially action movies) is going to be a fight for your life. It's a serious affair. Your movements are going to be swift, and deliberate, because your life depends on it.

Last edited by Kaiborg; 07-17-2018 at 06:32 PM.
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Old 07-17-2018, 09:49 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiborg View Post
IMO, if you want to learn quickly how to block an entertaining fight scene, study Professional Wrestling. They've been perfecting exactly this skill for a long time. Even when their gig goes off the rails and turns "real", it's still a thing to see
Thank you for bringing up pro wrestling. It usual gets a bad rep amongst the stunt community, but having the background really helps when it comes to fight scenes.I'm just happy that it has been getting more recognition in hollywood. Especially when Black Widows moveset is wrestling based. And yes, match structure is a good way to choreography your fight scene. That's what we've been doing for years in our fight scenes.

In terms of movement, keeping the actors moving or bobbing in some sort of way helps for dead time. Seeing scenes where the fighter anticipates the next move is one of my annoyances. That and there being no conviction.

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Old 07-18-2018, 02:39 AM   #14
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Thank you again everyone for your contribution, everything was noted
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Old 07-18-2018, 01:13 PM   #15
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