Really need advice on cameras

C

ChrisNS

Hi, could really do with some advice here. (By the way you will probably be able to tell I'm new to all this)
I'm looking to make my first ever short film and have been doing a lot of research into DSLRs.
I have a budget for some kit and almost ready to buy my first camera. Up until a few weeks ago I didn't really know much about DSLRs (I have only ever shot on digital camcorders) and I'm getting some conflicting opinions. A popular choice seems to be the Panasonic GH4. I am tempted to go ahead and buy this camera for various reasons, including the fact it shoots in 4k, is capable of a really high ISO (although some people say there is a lot of noise at higher settings) and also the price (id like to keep the cost of the camera body under £1200 if possible).
My question is this: what are peoples thoughts on the GH4 for shooting films, particuarly for low light conditions.
I thought with the ability to shoot 4k it would be a better choice than most other DSLRs but after doing a little research I cant find a feature film that was shot with the GH4, whereas quite a few Hollywood movies have been shot with various Canon and Nikon models for certain scenes, (and these models don't shoot in 4k, hence my confusion).
Some people claim some of the Canon models to be capable of much better images? I have spoken to a few experts in stores and online but these guys always seem to be more clued up on still photography rather than filmmaking.
Any help much appreciated :)
 
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Hi there,

I personally prefer Canon cameras. I would recommend the Canon 7D or 6D is a bit cheaper. A problem with DSLRs can be noise with a high ISO but if you want to shoot on DSLR this is just a minor setback. Obviously a major pro when shooting with a DSLR is the price compared to shooting with the more expensive industry cameras or shooting on film, and a huge pro in my opinion is the ability to change lenses which you cannot usually do on camcorders.
If you're looking to get any sound kit, i'd recommend investing in a decent shotgun mic and an external recorder such as the zoom h4n because sound quality on DSLRs is possibly the worst thing about them.
 
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If you want 4K:
No Canon DSLR will give you that.
What they do give: a softer image (lineskipping: more change to get moire or aliasing).
They tend to give less noise: the sensor is larger than the M43 in a GH4.

My advice: try to get your hands on a GH4 to test it.
Maybe test other cameras as well.

Before I buy a new camera I always have first hand experience with it.
Buying based on a spec sheet and other people's opinion is IMHO not enough ground to buy a camera. You have to work with it, so you need to do a test ride :)
 
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Good ol' Uncle Bob has to put in his two cents, as always…

My-Two-Cents.jpg


Why not rent a camera or retain a DP/Cinematographer who already has all the gear (and is far more familiar with it than you are). As I frequently mention, a mentor of mine maintained that, if you don't use it every day you shouldn't own it.

What I'm getting at is why would you want to spend lots of money buying gear you'll use once or thrice a year (and be "antiquated" in 18 months), then have to learn how to use, maintain, insure, etc., etc., etc.? And what is the point of your project? Do you want to be a DP, or do you want to be a director? If you want to direct why not have others handle all of the technical aspects so you can focus on directing? There are many ambitious up-and-comers who would be more than happy to work the camera, swing the boom, etc. for a small stipend.
 
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ChrisNS said:
A popular choice seems to be the Panasonic GH4. I am tempted to go ahead and buy this camera for various reasons, including the fact it shoots in 4k, is capable of a really high ISO (although some people say there is a lot of noise at higher settings) and also the price (id like to keep the cost of the camera body under £1200 if possible).
Click to expand...
Get it! You will not regret this choice.

This is your very first short. You will make a few more in the next year
or so and the GH4 will serve you well. By 2019 you will have outgrown
any camera you purchase at the end of 2016. Either you will decide to
become a DP and will need a newer camera or you will decide to become
a director and will want to work with a DP who either owns a camera or
you will get serious and rent the perfect camera for your first feature.

Either way the camera you buy for your very first short film isn't the
camera you will be using in four/five years when you transition to features.

So get the GH4 and make ten short films.
 
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v0laci0us said:
Hi there,

I personally prefer Canon cameras. I would recommend the Canon 7D or 6D is a bit cheaper. A problem with DSLRs can be noise with a high ISO but if you want to shoot on DSLR this is just a minor setback. Obviously a major pro when shooting with a DSLR is the price compared to shooting with the more expensive industry cameras or shooting on film, and a huge pro in my opinion is the ability to change lenses which you cannot usually do on camcorders.
If you're looking to get any sound kit, i'd recommend investing in a decent shotgun mic and an external recorder such as the zoom h4n because sound quality on DSLRs is possibly the worst thing about them.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice! I will look into this sound equipment too, looks like you have answered my next question there
 
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You really don't need 4K for a short film. Heck, I'm shooting shorts and features and I don't even use 4K on my Ursa Mini. I'd go with the Canons. If you get a model that is Magic Lantern compatible, you'll be in for a real treat!
 
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Alcove Audio said:
Good ol' Uncle Bob has to put in his two cents, as always…

My-Two-Cents.jpg


Why not rent a camera or retain a DP/Cinematographer who already has all the gear (and is far more familiar with it than you are). As I frequently mention, a mentor of mine maintained that, if you don't use it every day you shouldn't own it.

What I'm getting at is why would you want to spend lots of money buying gear you'll use once or thrice a year (and be "antiquated" in 18 months), then have to learn how to use, maintain, insure, etc., etc., etc.? And what is the point of your project? Do you want to be a DP, or do you want to be a director? If you want to direct why not have others handle all of the technical aspects so you can focus on directing? There are many ambitious up-and-comers who would be more than happy to work the camera, swing the boom, etc. for a small stipend.
Click to expand...

thanks for the advice, I suppose I'm not really sure exactly where I want to go at this stage, so I'm trying to learn how to do everything
 
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directorik said:
Get it! You will not regret this choice.

This is your very first short. You will make a few more in the next year
or so and the GH4 will serve you well. By 2019 you will have outgrown
any camera you purchase at the end of 2016. Either you will decide to
become a DP and will need a newer camera or you will decide to become
a director and will want to work with a DP who either owns a camera or
you will get serious and rent the perfect camera for your first feature.

Either way the camera you buy for your very first short film isn't the
camera you will be using in four/five years when you transition to features.

So get the GH4 and make ten short films.
Click to expand...

much appreciated thankyou.
I expect this is the route I will go down, maybe the best thing I can do right now is just go out buy a camera, go play with it and experiment and shoot as much as I can :)
 
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Another question:
did you even record and edit a video before?
If not: I think it could be a good idea to make something with a smartphone or a borrowed camera to see whether it is as cool as you think, before spending all that money :)

Whatever you do: go shoot :)
 
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WalterB said:
Another question:
did you even record and edit a video before?
If not: I think it could be a good idea to make something with a smartphone or a borrowed camera to see whether it is as cool as you think, before spending all that money :)

Whatever you do: go shoot :)
Click to expand...

thanks, made a couple of shorts over a 2 year period at college, but only using a JVC HD camcorder and DV tapes, so I'm new to DSLRs
 
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if your decision is to go with a DSLR, they are much of a muchness. The fundamental differences are GH4 has 4k which I prefer as it gives me more flexibility in the edit and is a bit better for a big screen but more noise meaning I need to light.

Canons don't give me 4k but they're a bit better at lower light and the colouring is better.

The only other element is lenses because the GH4 has a crop of 2.2 meaning you need wider lenses. Canons tend to crop at 1.6 so you initially need less lenses and in a confined space (e.g. a room or a car), a Canon is better.

My choice is to do a lot in post, not in-camera so the GH4 is my natural choice. It's a good camera and for a DSLR would definitely be my first choice because I prefer the 4k.

As for shooting feature films, if you mean 'mainstream' feature films, there's a reason for that. The minimum level today is higher quality level than current DSLRs reach. However, features have been shot on AF101s, 5D Mk2s etc... so you can do a whole load with a GH4 and they're around £900.
 
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gorillaonabike said:
if your decision is to go with a DSLR, they are much of a muchness. The fundamental differences are GH4 has 4k which I prefer as it gives me more flexibility in the edit and is a bit better for a big screen but more noise meaning I need to light.

Canons don't give me 4k but they're a bit better at lower light and the colouring is better.

The only other element is lenses because the GH4 has a crop of 2.2 meaning you need wider lenses. Canons tend to crop at 1.6 so you initially need less lenses and in a confined space (e.g. a room or a car), a Canon is better.

My choice is to do a lot in post, not in-camera so the GH4 is my natural choice. It's a good camera and for a DSLR would definitely be my first choice because I prefer the 4k.

As for shooting feature films, if you mean 'mainstream' feature films, there's a reason for that. The minimum level today is higher quality level than current DSLRs reach. However, features have been shot on AF101s, 5D Mk2s etc... so you can do a whole load with a GH4 and they're around £900.
Click to expand...

this looks like some very useful information, thankyou.

I would like to be able to do a lot of experimenting in post so 4k seems to be a good option, but I also intend to do a lot of shooting in low light conditions too
 
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ChrisNS said:
I suppose I'm not really sure exactly where I want to go at this stage, so I'm trying to learn how to do everything
Click to expand...

That appears to be a contradiction. Are you saying you're going to try to "learn how to do everything" by buying and using all the equipment needed to make films? If so, you're going to need tens of thousands in spare cash just to buy extremely cheap/basic equipment or hundreds of thousands to buy mediocre equipment. However, you've only mentioned buying a camera, which implies you've already decided on the role of cinematographer, rather than being open to everything.

If you really are looking at everything, then take the advice already offered; use your smartphone, hire a camera and/or collaborate with a cinematographer until you're sure you actually want to be a cinematographer ... and the same goes for each of the other filmmaking roles which have equipment requirements!

G
 
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How much money do you have? If you're loaded, then yeah, go ahead and purchase a DSLR or an EVIL (GH4) camera. But if you're not strapped in cash, I highly advise waiting on making a purchase.

Would I be correct to assume that you own a smartphone? Make a movie with that. Learn the basics. Figure out if you actually want to stick with filmmaking, and more specifically, which realm of filmmaking interests you most.

By the time you've figured these kinds of things out, the camera that you would've purchased will be obsolete. WAIT! If this is a major budget purchase for you, there's no reason for you to make that purchase until you've gotten your feet wet.

Just start making movies with what you've got. And welcome to the world of cinema! :D
 
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My approach to anything new is to "minimize your expectations" and hopefully you'll be pleasantly surprised (or disappointed) by its capabilities. That stated, I bought my GH4 (semi pro in my opinion) 3 months ago and up until then I did not know much about the camera.

I chose the GH4 for number of reasons, but if it were not for a review/contest judged by Francis Ford Coppola (Google "The Great Camera Shootout Panasonic GH2 et al) I would have went with Canon or Nikon.

Now, I am not going to beat you over the head with its capabilities, but the camera body is festooned with buttons which took me awhile to become comfortable with hand placement and overall small camera body, a minor detail as you discover its dynamic usefulness.

Here's a short list of what I have discovered with the GH4:

* Cine V, Cine D, great features that provides cinematic look. I use this for test videos.
* Firmware updates are impressive e.g., latest for me: anamorphic firmware update that is on par with Arri Alexa studio vertical resolution. Google GH4 Anamorphic firmware and Arri Alexa vertical resolution.
* Price had a lot to do with my purchase.
* Adaptability e.g., lenses.
* Histogram.
* Peaking.
* Quick motion picture red button shoot with audio (4K)
* Check out their other firmware updates that make the GH4 highly useful in my opinion.

Overall the GH4 has a lot more useful features I am still discovering. I have a lot of fun creating time and hyper lapse and experimenting with its 48fps, 60fps, 96fps while in Cine V test video mode. The hidden menus are a little tricky, but as you become more familiar with its functions your doubts will be put to rest.

Salud,

Armored Saint
 
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Cracker Funk said:
How much money do you have? If you're loaded, then yeah, go ahead and purchase a DSLR or an EVIL (GH4) camera. But if you're not strapped in cash, I highly advise waiting on making a purchase.

Would I be correct to assume that you own a smartphone? Make a movie with that. Learn the basics. Figure out if you actually want to stick with filmmaking, and more specifically, which realm of filmmaking interests you most.

By the time you've figured these kinds of things out, the camera that you would've purchased will be obsolete. WAIT! If this is a major budget purchase for you, there's no reason for you to make that purchase until you've gotten your feet wet.

Just start making movies with what you've got. And welcome to the world of cinema! :D
Click to expand...

That last line is spot on . . .
 
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