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New to ADR

Hi, all

I've done a handful of short projects in the past, but I've never had occasion to be concerned with ADR before. Shooting an outdoor location next to Beverly Glen near Bel Air has changed that.

Picture is nearly locked, so I'm close to addressing sound and I'm finding that I have a lot of questions. And frankly I'd rather look like a complete newbie here rather than go to a post house where my ego prefers to believe that I look like a knowledgeable professional. (If we can't delude at least ourselves then why bother at all, right?)

I have about five minutes of footage of two actors that needs ADR work. I already have plenty of tone from the location, and movement is minimal so foley requirements should be small. I saw in another thread a recommendation of having actors reference audio only so they don't get caught up in watching themselves on a playback monitor. Like that idea.

I've been quoted a $50/ hour + 1 engineer studio rate, and I'm planning to ask around to see if that's a reasonable rate. (And if anyone has any recommended kickass LA sound designers that will work with a limited budget my inbox is definitely open.)

If I go with a studio like that, am I responsible for setting up the dialogue in loops with a 2-pop before each line, or is that part of what a studio is for?

And what is a realistic time estimate to expect a couple reasonably experienced and competent actors to successfully ADR five minutes of stuff? Hard to call, I know, but at least ballpark would be helpful.

There's possibly more stuff that I don't know that I don't know yet, but when I do know that I don't know it--I'll ask then.

Thanks, gang.
 
$50 + engineer is quite reasonable for LA. I do know quite a few kick-ass LA studios and engineers if you want to triple to octuple your budget.:D

Figure one (1) hour per linear minute doing the actual ADR - yes, even with experienced actors. Unless you are just a few days away from the wrap of shooting it will take a while for the talent to get back into the character and the flow. Once you're about done you'll probably want to go back to the beginning and redo the first couple of lines.

You'll also be very tempted to play with the performances; DON'T!!! K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple, Stupid)! Just try to duplicate the production dialog. That is, of course, unless you have the budget...

Yes, setting up the 2-pops is part of what the studio does, but you will pay for that studio time. The more prepared you are - a complete ADR cue sheet (lines by character w/Time Code references) - the more time/money you will save. If you have it as a digital spread sheet some ADR systems can import that and partially auto-set-up the session. Contact the studio for format requirements. (You can do the 2-pops yourself, it will save studio time, but make damned sure you have it 100% right; if it's wrong it may cost you more time/money.)

Make sure that each character has his/her own audio track when you export the OMF; that will save separation time in the studio.

Also be sure that you have scripts for the talent, the studio staff and, of course, yourself. You should have it all memorized, but the script will help keep you organized. BTW, big type is always a help.

Contact the studio for the exact requirements for everything - visuals codec(s), audio format (OMF, bit/sample rates, etc.).

Know exactly what you want to accomplish before you go in, brush up on terminology so you can communicate more effectively with the engineer. The more prepared you are the more time you will save on the technical side of things; and trust me, working with the talent will always take longer than you think, and will really try your patience.

Listen to the engineer; s/he (hopefully) has a great deal of experience that you currently do not have. S/he is also listening with objective ears.

You will have to Foley everywhere there is ADR, plus sound FX and ambience/BGs. It is usually best to do everything for the entire scene; it sounds crazy, but when it's time to mix it's much faster than trying to blend production everything (dialog, Foley, sound FX, ambi/BG) with "artificial" everything.

Just some anecdotal information:

It once took two hours to get a single line of ADR.

It once took fifteen minutes to get eight minutes of ADR.

GOOD LUCK!!!
 
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Thanks

Yowzers! (Had to go all the way back to Inspector Gadget on that one...)

Thanks for the seriously insider look, ALCOVE. One hour per linear minute is far more than I thought necessary, so I'm very glad I asked. We shot the end of October, so I do have to expect that it'll take them some time to dust their characters off and get back into the moments.

(Holy information overload, Batman! :hmm:) I admit, my head did spin momentarily at the prospect of generating precisely timed ADR cue sheets, separately channeled OMFs, properly prepped codecs, a brush-up on technical audio-speak and plenty of large-type scripts. (Good call on that last, by the way.)

Here's where I'm thinking that a dedicated post-audio person would have been a good idea. In the past I've gotten away with making my picture editor do it, but there's only so far we can get with the fcp audio tools this time. (Those durn Beverly Glen drivers and their high-octane engines...the nerve of some affluent people...)

I have another silly should-be-obvious-but-I-don't-actually-know question. When you mention that it's best to do everything for the entire scene (ADR, foley, FX, BG) do you mean at the same studio at the time of ADR--so we walk out (hours later) with pre-mixed artificial "everything" for those scenes?

And yeah, I'm all about KISSing when it comes to post--let's get this puppy DONE. Two hours for a single line? Ah the GLAMOR of filmmaking!

Thanks again.
 
Some people don't like to watch playbacks, I not only prefer it, but really believe it saves time and improves the performances.

You'll notice that some people are very easy to do ADR with, while others take much longer and more prodding.
 
I'm not saying you have to do everything at the same time at the same studio. I'm just saying that you have to cover all of your bases. Everywhere you have ADR you need Foley, sound FX and ambience/BGs to maintain consistency throughout the scene.

There are, of course, dedicated Foley houses and, of course, they are usually pretty expensive. The upside is that they are FAST. It's probably not financially feasible for you at this point.

You can do it yourself; all you need are the appropriate Foley props & surfaces, a decent mic & pre-amp and a very quiet room. If you don't perform it right you can always cut it until it's in sync. The same goes for sound FX; you can buy the right ones from SoundDogs, etc., and cut to fit. The big problem is that it will be very time consuming because you have absolutely no idea what you are doing. The upside here is that it's cheap.

Your best bet - if you have the budget - is to find someone like myself who does "soup to nuts" audio post work. Even if it's only for complete work on a scene or two, quick fixing the rest and the final mix it's worth the investment.


As far as an hour per linear minute you have to remember that you are going through the entire scene with at least two people, and will be doing multiple takes of each line and, of course it may take a while for the talent to get back into character and flow. Remember, the lines have to have a solid performance and be in sync with the picture plus keeping the performances consistent from line to line; it's the combination of the three that takes time. You'll see what I mean when you actually experience it.

And, as I mentioned, it may not take that long. The biggest time saver is going to be your prep; if you've really got your sh1t together before you walk into the studio you can really get a lot done in a big hurry; your only "problems" will be directing your talent.
 
Thanks for the info, guys. I'm planning to meet with the studio this coming week and take it from there. I will definitely keep you all posted as any other questions arise. Thanks again!
 
I replaced all sounds in my entire 90 minute movie. Leading actors in with beeps throws talent off. I let the talent listed to a section about 3 times, then roll and record a couple of times letting them begin whenever they want (with no worry about lead in clicks), compare it, try again, etc. I usually record 4 to 8 takes. I NEVER regret getting more takes later when it's time to edit it all together.

Recording a 5 minute scene usually takes about an hour, but the time can vary greatly. If the actor stumbles and stutters then it might take 2 hours. ADR is such a tedious task that you don't want to record for more than 2 1/2 hours or the talent's brain will explode!

And finally it's so much more about LISTENING than SEEING. You can record ADR without seeing anything if need be.

Here's a little write up that I created regarding ADR....
http://www.insaneasound.com/dialog-replace.htm
 
Blade--thanks for the reply and for the article link. Both were very helpful (and points to me for almost understanding all of it the very first read!) You ADR'd an entire film? I would definitely expect you to have it down after that experience.

Seriously, thanks to all. Heading into the studio probably next week--wish me luck (and cleanly reproduced audio).
 
Quick question, gentleman.

My editor needs to break down his bay and we don't have a true sound designer on board yet. (And the studio won't be prepping our audio files for us either.) How should the editor output the sound that's most convenient for the the sound designer to prep for the ADR session? Is there a particular file format or anything to be aware of?

Thanks again.
 
You should export an OMF of the audio, a dialog only mix track, and, at the least, a hi-rez .mov of the visuals*. I personally prefer an uncompressed hi-rez .dv stream of the visuals; it's a huge file but is a much more efficient to use in real-time situations like ADR, Foley and mix-down sessions.

When it's time to do the dialog editing and the rest of the audio post I also like to get the audio from all of the unused takes; there's gold in thar! Besides the very useful word or phrase (I've even reconstructed the dialog of an entire scene) there's sometimes extremely useful production Foley and sound FX. And, if you didn't record any, it's useful for constructing room tones.

Here's a few tips'n'tricks for exporting the OMF for your sound editor/designer:

- no mixed sample or frame rates *
- save, close, re-open then export OMF
- no inactive regions in the timeline
- output a master .dv stream QT with a temp mix that has final frame/sample rate, timecode burn, and 2-pops at the front and at the end





* If you're using Final Cut make 100% sure that you are not using mixed bit/sample rates for the audio. Most DAWs absolutely hate mixed bit/sample rates and will usually default to the lowest rate, meaning that everything else at the higher rates will be out of sync; that's if the OMF will open at all, or the data isn't corrupted.
 
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