Should I pay people in post production if they do not deliver what I ask?

I also did not ask my test audience to look for problems in contrast. I asked them what they thought of the overall look, and if their are any problems. I did not hint at contrast specifically, they brought it up.

Now to answer the question what is contrast. By contrast I mean the setting in the camera. It was set to zero for the whole shoot. The reason why I kept it at zero the whole time, is so the whole movie would have the same look. I asked him to brighten the contrast on the WHOLE thing, after me made it too dark, in the first draft. He did not do that. He decided to make some shots bright, and keep some shots dark, and mix it all up. I asked him for the WHOLE thing to have the same matching look, and he mixed it up. I asked him to make the WHOLE thing match, and not give me half and half.

I did not ask for that. If he would have given the same look to the WHOLE thing like I asked for, then I would have felt he had given me what I asked for. I asked the colorist to match the shots, in the look he gives it, not mismatch them. However, I will add the colorists name to the credits like I agreed to, and just use my own grade, cause the same viewers said my own is better, and the look matches without changing so much.

There you have it:

1) You ask to name problems, so you mde them focus on problems. Would they say anything if you didn't ask to look for problems? (This is just something in general.)

2)
You have no idea what contrast means. Hence you don't speak the colorists language, but he doesn't know that. That's the cause of all the miscommunication.

Contrast is not just a setting on the camera.
Do you know what happens when you lower that setting and what happens when you put it higher?
Tell us.

Yes when you lower the setting, the blacks become more black, and when your raise it, it becomes more faded. By contrast I mean the camera setting in the picture style, and I also mean the same tool in color grading, where you can adjust the 'contrast' as it's called. Okay so the colorist thought I meant the overall contrast in the lighting and exposure from shot to shot, right, not just the camera setting. So it was the colorists idea to change the contrast, based on the lighting and exposure then?

If that's the case, then the color still does not work, cause you can still tell a difference in the grading, when it goes from high contrast to low contrast. My fault. For future reference though, how do you give one shot a different contrast, compared to another shot, and still have both shots look like they are of the same look? Some shots look good with no contrast, some shots look good with a lot. But you can tell that a chance has been made in the look if you do that. So how do I make each shot look best on it's own, but not making the differences obvious?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dicaYJpL70

So you keep referring to contrast as a setting.

What does contrast mean?

Yes when you lower the setting, the blacks become more black, and when your raise it, it becomes more faded. By contrast I mean the camera setting in the picture style, and I also mean the same tool in color grading, where you can adjust the 'contrast' as it's called. Okay so the colorist thought I meant the overall contrast in the lighting and exposure from shot to shot, right, not just the camera setting. So it was the colorists idea to change the contrast, based on the lighting and exposure then?

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You're either playing the fool or you are the fool. Either way you asked for a lower contrast picture. You got it. You don't like what you got. Boo hoo, too bad. You got what you asked for. Don't put more nails in the coffin. You've made the mistake by telling him how to do his job when you have no real idea on how to communicate with him or what you're doing. You made the point earlier that he knows what he's doing, so the odd factor here is you and your work.

So how do I make each shot look best on it's own, but not making the differences obvious?

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Take a gun. Put it to your head and pull the trigger. It was a warm finish you were looking for right? While it won't help you grade, it'll put us out of our misery.

Give it to a professional grader. Pay him professional grader rates. Tell him how you want it to look and get the fuck out of his way. Let him do his job and you do yours... Which is, let me be clear, to pay him and STFU.

Hence you don't speak the colorists language, but he doesn't know that. That's the cause of all the miscommunication.

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I'm sure I'm not the only person calling him an idiot

To be clear, contrast is the difference between the brightest and darkest point within a given parameter. To lower the contrast, you have to lower the distance between the brightest and darkest part. Grading software just compresses or expands the two. It's not quite that simple, but I hope you get the basic point.

For example. Here is one of the pictures you supplied:



LESS 20% Contrast:


LESS 40% Contrast:


MORE Contrast 20%:


So you can see from these examples, the closer we go to your instruction of LESS CONTRAST, the further we move towards that faded picture you're complaining about. The last picture is with 20% more contrast which, while with no color changes, no correction to the blacks (which is needed here), is less faded and likely to be closer to what you wanted (and probably had in the first place), though it's the complete opposite to what you demanded.

If you only had the intelligence earlier in the process, all this dumass crap could have been avoided.

So in the end, you've wasted the color graders time, and your money by issuing the instruction to reduce contrast without having a clue of what you're asking. Pay the poor guy his money and release him from this nightmare. You screwed up. I hope you can see that now.

At the rate you're learning, you'll be ready to finish your first short film by 2114. Learn faster if you don't stick your head up your ass so often.

Seems appropriate:

Looks like Sweetie did your homework H44.

You should have noticed that lowering contrast not only lightens shadows, but also darkens highlights.

Not seeing/understanding that also explains why you don't get how curves work.

You lack basic knowledge of color, tone (and contrast and affinity).
A big contrast means a big distance between opposites.
Black vs white is de biggest contrast of tone you can have.
Contrast of color and saturation also exist.

Working in a little box office for years and then change job to be a cowboy on the big plains is also a contrast in space around you.
Going from a funeral to a carnaval is also a contrast in emotion.

Contrast creates intensity.

Okay, in visuals contrast is almost always used to talk about contrast in tonal range.

Affinity means very low contrast. (Just to make it complete. No, there is no tool called affinity. Affinity decreases intensity.


H44, you've been running ahead without knowing the basics.
When in 2011 everyone told you to make small things to learn the basics quicker, you ignored it.
Fail fast, learn faster is cheaper and less waste of everybody's time than your method of asking asking asking, pretending to know and losing time and money while learning just a little.
You didn't know that you didn't know, because you can't know when you don't know.
(Or something like that.)

John Cleese has some wise words on that topic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMpdPrm6Ul4&feature=player_detailpage#t=542

Go do your 1 page project.
Enjoy it, do your best and learn.

And communicate better.
This means: use words you know the meaning of.
And: don't leave out 'little details' like day and night scenes.

Looks like Sweetie did your homework H44.

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Sorry. I was getting sick of beating around the bush. I knew the end result and didn't want to miss the opportunity to throw in a well deserved h44 is an idiot blurt out.

If I hadn't, the question would have been left unanswered since he doesn't have the knowledge to do simple google searches, let alone have any reasonable knowledge about filmmaking processes. H44 will Mr Magoo his way through life and the forums, bringing us the worst excuses anyone has ever heard... You know the kind not even a 5 year old would fall for. He's always clueless on why he's at fault for causing a mess.

You wanna know something? We had a little conversation about me doing some color grading for him. I'm so glad those messages turned out poorly enough to warrant turning down his work.

Oh ray... my life is now complete. This picture sums up h44:

WalterB said:

Your lack basic knowledge of color, tone (and contrast and affinity).
A big contrast means a big distance between opposites.
Black vs white is the biggest contrast of tone you can have.

Click to expand...

Whooooah!
So... could you 'splain to me this novel idea of difference between BLACK and WHITE thing you speak of?

Sweetie said:

Oh ray... my life is now complete. This picture sums up h44:

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Score!