Can a short film be too naughty?

sfoster

sfoster

Staff Member
Moderator
NC-17 is a death sentence for feature films.
If I understand correctly, you're not allowed television advertisements for NC-17.

What about for a short film that you simply intend to blow people away at a festival such as cannes or sundance?

If you venture slightly into what might be NC-17 material is that a terrible idea?
 
sfoster said:
NC-17 is a death sentence for feature films.
If I understand correctly, you're not allowed television advertisements for NC-17.

What about for a short film that you simply intend to blow people away at a festival such as cannes or sundance?

If you venture slightly into what might be NC-17 material is that a terrible idea?
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As you correctly point out the challenge for a feature is advertising.
If it can't be advertised (and many newspapers won't take ads for
NC-17 rated films) it make it very difficult to find an audience. But
the controversy can actually help. Festivals rarely (if ever) advertise
individual short films on TV or in print. So they do not have those
restrictions.

You know from your research (and reading posts here on indietalk)
that festivals are looking for movies that will blow people away; for
movies that show some excellence or simply once that programmers
feel will interest festival goers. So the answer is; a short films potential
MPAA rating has no bearing at all on most festival programmers. A short
that is provocative or controversial or "naughty" may be programmed by
some festivals and not accepted by others.
 
sfoster said:
What about for a short film that you simply intend to blow people away at a festival such as cannes or sundance?
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Blue Is the Warmest Color holds a NC-17 rating and won awards at numerous festivals including Cannes and was even nominated for a Golden Globe. So.... Yea venture into NC-17, I don't think it'll hurt you on the festival front much.

Yes I know it's a feature... but if they'll program a feature with enough blatant sex scenes to make a short length soft porno, then they'll program a short that touches NC-17.
 
The first feature on which I worked ("Johnny Montana") had LOTS of nudity and sex scenes - simulated rapes, rough sex and the like. The protagonist becomes a male prostitute so the scenes show him when he's working, so to say.

It won the Best Production Award, Best Feature Award and the Soundpost Award at the 2006 Moondance International Film Festival, and the Silver Spotlight Award and Best Debut Feature at the 2006 Australian International Film Festival
.

johnnymontana_poster.gif
 
Had my GF read the script. She thought it involved too much religion.

Hmm. Another topic that might be a big mistake.
 
Sounds intriguing.

Grow a pair and go for it? Unless you don't want to be a controversial or edgy filmmaker. Might depend on your aspirations and who you think you want to hire or finance you in the future?

If you want to be or don't mind being that kind of filmmaker, I find Rik's and AA's and Sky's input reassuring. Don't you? On the other hand, easy for me to say. :)

Is there sex involved? How you shoot sex and nudity in films interests me (and worries me, you could say). I haven't really heard or read or learned about how Hollywood and others creating in the U.S. go about it. But I'm guessing that you have go about it the same way that porn producers do, even if you're only shooting nudity or simulated sex? I'm guessing that you have to make sure to comply with U.S.C. Title 18, Section 2257 Record-Keeping Requirements? In other words, it's critical that you dot all your i's and cross all your t's?
 
sfoster said:
Fantastic!

Thanks guys. This is going to kick ass.
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Not so fast. Festivals like to fill seats (generate revenue), and young adults are a prime source of money. Cutting out this audience would be a bonehead move for many (most?) festivals. They'll likely not select it at all or run it late at night (more competition for you by the way).

Another thing, these "shocking" type films are rather common though. Some filmmakers think instead of a great story, they'll can just get away by just "shocking" people instead.

If you're going to do this, it better be several notches above the usual stuff that swamp festival screeners.

Good luck.
 
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richy said:
Sounds intriguing.

Grow a pair and go for it? Unless you don't want to be a controversial or edgy filmmaker. Might depend on your aspirations and who you think you want to hire or finance you in the future?

If you want to be or don't mind being that kind of filmmaker, I find Rik's and AA's and Sky's input reassuring. Don't you? On the other hand, easy for me to say. :)

Is there sex involved? How you shoot sex and nudity in films interests me (and worries me, you could say). I haven't really heard or read or learned about how Hollywood and others creating in the U.S. go about it. But I'm guessing that you have go about it the same way that porn producers do, even if you're only shooting nudity or simulated sex? I'm guessing that you have to make sure to comply with U.S.C. Title 18, Section 2257 Record-Keeping Requirements? In other words, it's critical that you dot all your i's and cross all your t's?
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There is nudity and a strip tease but no actual sex, simulated sex or masturbation involved.
Good point about the records, I'd want to be extra careful to document the talent as over 18.

I'll have to watch blue is the warmest color, but yes their input is reassuring.

GuerrillaAngel said:
Not so fast. Festivals like to fill seats (generate revenue), and young adults are a prime source of money. Cutting out this audience would be a bonehead move for many (most?) festivals. They'll likely not select it at all or run it late at night (more competition for you by the way).
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I got a little confused here, aren't young adults old enough to witness nc-17 material? If there is nudity or an obscene scene or two i could see that hurting adolescents. young adults seem to me a different story though, why do you feel they wouldn't select it based on young adults
 
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sfoster said:
...I'd want to be extra careful to document the talent as over 18.

I'll have to watch blue is the warmest color, but yes their input is reassuring.
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Of course I might be mistaken about this, but I'm under the impression that you need to document everyone involved, as in all the crew and everyone present. But I'm sure there are others here, like Rik and AA, who can clarify that for us.

When it comes to Blue is the Warmest Color, is it pertinent to not that it's a European film?
 
richy said:
Of course I might be mistaken about this, but I'm under the impression that you need to document everyone involved, as in all the crew and everyone present. But I'm sure there are others here, like Rik and AA, who can clarify that for us.

When it comes to Blue is the Warmest Color, is it pertinent to not that it's a European film?
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I don't know if that's pertinent or not.

I'm just trying to impress some people at a big festival so that I can meet wealthy producers that invest in films.
 
sfoster said:
got a little confused here, aren't young adults old enough to witness nc-17 material?
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Maybe I should have been more clear. Tack on a 17+ age limit at the prime 7PM showing? Not going to happen for most festivals. Likewise with afternoon showings.

Shorts are programmed in blocks so your film can only be in a 17+ block. If there are only a few 17+ films, they're not going to sacrifice a larger audience for just the few 17+ shorts in it -- they'll just select others, even if your film is better.

You'll be limited to specialized festivals. Then there's youtube and so on. It won't fly there. Probably not on createspace either.

I'm not saying don't, but eyes wide open -- you may not get in any decent festival even if it is excellent.
 
richy said:
When it comes to Blue is the Warmest Color, is it pertinent to not that it's a European film?
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Normally I would say Yes, but Blue Is the Warmest Color screened at MANY (I'd say at least a sixty? I'm not sure of the exact number) American festivals. Not to mention the countless awards the movie brought from those festivals. So I'd say it's more an International movie than it is foreign. (Even though the language spoken is French)

sfoster said:
I got a little confused here, aren't young adults old enough to witness nc-17 material? If there is nudity or an obscene scene or two i could see that hurting adolescents. young adults seem to me a different story though, why do you feel they wouldn't select it based on young adults
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I've been to a few horror film festivals (as a viewer) and normally if something comes up that is NC-17 and sometimes even the R rated ones at the festivals desecration were shown behind closed doors that required an ID to get in. Some festivals, albeit smaller ones, don't have the ability to do closed door screenings. In that situation I could see them turning down an NC-17 screening for the fact they'd have to not allow minors entrance to the festival at all.

sfoster said:
Had my GF read the script. She thought it involved too much religion.

Hmm. Another topic that might be a big mistake.
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I have this problem with two of my scripts! I'm a little on the push the buttons side of filmmaking.

One script I have is a very short homage to A Clockwork Orange, specifically the scene involving rape. The team I work with has absolutely refused to do it.

The same my other script they refused to work on involved cutting a baby in half at a fast food location and serving it to a knowing and excited customer.

Granted, they have good reason to refuse to do them. These short could have long term consequences for all of us. Future funders could look at this and think we'll take projects edgy.

I could see the wish to not get involved in a project that had a controversial view on religion.
 
GuerrillaAngel said:
Maybe I should have been more clear. Tack on a 17+ age limit at the prime 7PM showing? Not going to happen for most festivals. Likewise with afternoon showings.

Shorts are programmed in blocks so your film can only be in a 17+ block. If there are only a few 17+ films, they're not going to sacrifice a larger audience for just the few 17+ shorts in it -- they'll just select others, even if your film is better.

You'll be limited to specialized festivals. Then there's youtube and so on. It won't fly there. Probably not on createspace either.

I'm not saying don't, but eyes wide open -- you may not get in any decent festival even if it is excellent.
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I think I would definitely earn an R rating. Something I will have to live with.
Youtube. eh. It's not something I'm aiming for with this project, it's too good for youtube. I could always add some blur areas if I change my mind later on.

SkyCopeland said:
I've been to a few horror film festivals (as a viewer) and normally if something comes up that is NC-17 and sometimes even the R rated ones at the festivals desecration were shown behind closed doors that required an ID to get in. Some festivals, albeit smaller ones, don't have the ability to do closed door screenings. In that situation I could see them turning down an NC-17 screening for the fact they'd have to not allow minors entrance to the festival at all.

I have this problem with two of my scripts! I'm a little on the push the buttons side of filmmaking.

One script I have is a very short homage to A Clockwork Orange, specifically the scene involving rape. The team I work with has absolutely refused to do it.

The same my other script they refused to work on involved cutting a baby in half at a fast food location and serving it to a knowing and excited customer.

Granted, they have good reason to refuse to do them. These short could have long term consequences for all of us. Future funders could look at this and think we'll take projects edgy.

I could see the wish to not get involved in a project that had a controversial view on religion.
Click to expand...

Did the R rating ones get prime time slots, even though they checked ID?

I actually wasn't trying to be too controversial with religion, but it's a major plot point. It's a superhero action comedy, where the planets only superhero has a church that worships them like a god. It seemed to me the logical conclusion if we lived in a world with someone like superman.

Most of it isn't controversial, but religion is systemic in the storyline. Only a single zinger for certain types of religious folk at the end :lol:

ItDonnedOnMe said:
That sounds like R, not NC-17, material. Unless, of course, there's an erection involved.
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Yeah I am skirting the line. Is that the expression?

The script has an erection right now. It's not nude but it's contours are visible through a thin layer of fabric and it's timing is extremely awkward and funny. It's not meant to be a sexy erection, if that helps my case at all :lol:

I saw that movie Blue Valentine.. Apparently having the word blue in your title is a good way to go about getting NC-17. Seemed to me an unfair rating and it should have been R. But we all know this process is very suspect.

I don't think short films actually need to get a rating though, it must work differently right?
 
sfoster said:
Had my GF read the script. She thought it involved too much religion.

Hmm. Another topic that might be a big mistake.
Click to expand...

Controversial topics are probably a good thing for festival attention.

I think the key would be making sure the 'naughtiness' and religious aspects serve the story and aren't just gratuitous. If so, you should be good to go, ratings be damned! :D
 
sfoster said:
Did the R rating ones get prime time slots, even though they checked ID?
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Being horror festivals, R ratings were a dime a dozen. But they had their own section of the festival (there were people checking age bands, but it wasn't very strictly done.)

Plus as long as they had a parent or guardian with them that gave concept, they were allowed to watch the R rated screenings.

However, NC-17 strictly states that even with consent of a parent or guardian that a minor of or under the age of 17 is not allowed to be present.
 
Short films aren't rated per se, no. But festivals sometimes do impose their own informal ratings, which can vary from region to region depending on local standards. My feature Surviving Family doesn't have an MPAA rating (too expensive), but a festival in Wisconsin rated it (for viewer guidance) PG-13, while a festival in Oklahoma rated it R. We filled the theater in OK btw, and picked up quite a few awards so it certainly wasn't a detriment!
 
ItDonnedOnMe said:
That sounds like R, not NC-17, material. Unless, of course, there's an erection involved.
Click to expand...

sfoster said:
Yeah I am skirting the line. Is that the expression?

The script has an erection right now. It's not nude but it's contours are visible through a thin layer of fabric and it's timing is extremely awkward and funny. It's not meant to be a sexy erection, if that helps my case at all :lol:
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(This must be true. And yet, amazingly, Under the Skin received an R rating despite having one or two naked erections. How did that happen? I suppose we shouldn't hope the MPAA is becoming less Victorian? Maybe the group assigned to screen it was asleep, and it got through?)
 
Don't forget to include the dream with a field of topless women ;)

Anyway: keeping records (of ID's) is always good.
A fellow student once had to ditch a completed project because the main character turned out to be still a minor (he lied about his age: added a few months) and the parents didn't give permission to show it anywhere. (In the Netherlands you can't give permission to be shown in a movie when you are a minor: the parents or gardians are the ones to make that call.)
Almost the whole class worked on it (somehow I was busy with other things :P ), eager to send it to festivals.

To anwser the original question:
yes, it can be too naughty (for some).
 
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