What are the first things a budding filmmaker should learn?

indietalk said:
Even a genius would delegate, he's a genius right? I see it differently than you. Yes, it may be your ego keeping you back but it doesn't mean you aren't good at those tasks. It's about being able to surrender that power, and it might be because you are really good at it. Cinematography for example.

If you can handle DP as well you can go for it like Rodriguez, but don't try to fill all the roles yourself and maybe realize the addition of DP and others would bring new creativity to the project and let you direct. Fill creative rolls and crew roles. You're the director you can always veto something. :)

The film is still your vision, but open your eyes. ;)
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This has always been my problem. Really struggled to let go on a lot of productions. My first time with a dp and 1st AD really opened my eyes.
 
indietalk said:
Even a genius would delegate, he's a genius right? I see it differently than you. Yes, it may be your ego keeping you back but it doesn't mean you aren't good at those tasks. It's about being able to surrender that power, and it might be because you are really good at it. Cinematography for example.

If you can handle DP as well you can go for it like Rodriguez, but don't try to fill all the roles yourself and maybe realize the addition of DP and others would bring new creativity to the project and let you direct. Fill creative rolls and crew roles. You're the director you can always veto something. :)

The film is still your vision, but open your eyes. ;)
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I don't think we're seeing things differently, just coming at the issue of 'delegation' from two separate directions.

I think there's a tendency, among beginner filmmakers (and here I'm talking about people who have started making films, not people who have just picked up a camera) to micromanage roles and over-burden themselves, because they want the holistic filmmaking experience. I meet so many indie filmmakers who call themselves writer/director/actors or dop/writer/director/producer. And it's so hard to juggle those roles, and so few people produce really good work when they're doing all that. The earlier people realise that the strongest way to make a film is with a good team, the better.

They say it takes a village to raise a child. The same is true of a film.
 
PaulWrightyThen said:
This has always been my problem. Really struggled to let go on a lot of productions. My first time with a dp and 1st AD really opened my eyes.
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I had to learn 1st AD the hard way too. The ambiguity lies in the title, they are not Assistant Director per se, they are Assistant to the Director, Efficiency Manager, etc. One of the most valuable assets on set. But not a creative role, they are not going to question your direction. You want your production run like a well oiled machine? 1st AD is essential!

NickClapper said:
I don't think we're seeing things differently, just coming at the issue of 'delegation' from two separate directions.

I think there's a tendency, among beginner filmmakers (and here I'm talking about people who have started making films, not people who have just picked up a camera) to micromanage roles and over-burden themselves, because they want the holistic filmmaking experience. I meet so many indie filmmakers who call themselves writer/director/actors or dop/writer/director/producer. And it's so hard to juggle those roles, and so few people produce really good work when they're doing all that. The earlier people realise that the strongest way to make a film is with a good team, the better.

They say it takes a village to raise a child. The same is true of a film.
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Indeed!
 
Oh, Lordy! Let me tell you about 1st AD, hahahahaha. It's not a fun position. I've got much respect for anyone who's able to do it well.
 
1st AD and Script Supervisor are two gems that ore often overlooked.
 
indietalk said:
The ambiguity lies in the title, they are not Assistant Director per se, they are Assistant to the Director, Efficiency Manager, etc. One of the most valuable assets on set…... But not a creative role…...
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Although the 1st AD is not influencing the directors creative vision (pre se) the problem solving skills needed to keep even a micro-budget project on-schedule and on-budget calls for a great deal of creativity.:D

And Foster - I got the sarcasm; I was addressing the complete neophytes who may not get the smilie as being sarcastic. Plus, I had to add my own weasel words. :D


There are dozens, maybe hundreds of things that budding filmmakers need to know. The most important and most difficult to obtain is experienced, knowledgeable, discrete, trusted, honest outside criticism. Just being able to bounce everything off of someone who matches these criteria is worth more than anything else.


A few more things that budding filmmakers need to know:

You must know when to compromise.

You must know when NOT to compromise.

You must be ready to kill your babies.

You must embrace creative partners.

ALWAYS keep it legal.
 
Alcove as always you are right. I may not have worded it just right. The job is essential. Shit, everyone can be creative on a film, even grips with how they finagle some shit with gaffer's tape. I getcha man.

*Now the grips mad at me lol.
 
Haha, this thread has gone in directions I couldn't have envisioned. When I first asked the question, I thought we'd be talking stuff like the Rule of Thirds.

Nope, we're talking Zen Buddhism, haha. Works for me.
 
I always have to throw in my old stand-by - work on other projects before beginning your own. It's a "film school" in its own right. You see both positive and negative lessons in action. You will be asked to do all kinds of things, and you will learn from that. You will meet people and build a network on both sides of the camera to call upon for your own projects and for favors.
 
indietalk said:
Alcove as always you are right. I may not have worded it just right. The job is essential.
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No, you worded it just fine; I was pointing out it calls for a different kind of creativity. The 1st AD is the person who makes sense out of the chaos for the director and acts as a buffer between the director and the rest of the world. Some people thrive on that, but give me my nice, peaceful studio.

indietalk said:
Shit, everyone can be creative on a film, even grips with how they finagle some shit with gaffer's tape. I getcha man.

*Now the grips mad at me lol.
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It's amazing though, isn't it, how those dozens of little "tricks of the trade" can seem almost magical in any craft.
 
Cracker Funk said:
Haha, this thread has gone in directions I couldn't have envisioned. When I first asked the question, I thought we'd be talking stuff like the Rule of Thirds.
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That's technique. The details learned over time. Good to know
at some point, but not really the first things a budding film maker
should learn.

Allow yourself to make terrible movies.

These days showing your film to complete strangers is easier than
it ever was. So a budding film maker either unleashes horrible crap
to the masses and then gets offended or discouraged when people
who don't know them tell the truth or they don't make a movie until
they have everything they believe will make the movie great.

I believe the "old way" is still the best way; make movies. I understand
that just saying that put me in “old guy” category who dismisses new
technology and sits on the porch with the “in my day...” stories. But
I see so many people coming here to ask questions that COULD be
answered by trying. “In my day...” if I wondered how three lights would
look I set up three lights, shot some film (yes film), got it processed
and three or four days later looked at it. Then tried it again.

So my advice to budding film makers is; make movies. Make a short
film every weekend with your phone camera, with your GoPro, with
your dad's 10 year old camcorder. Each time try something different;
use lights in a different way, experiment with audio and camera moves.
“In my day...” is used one-act plays because I didn't think I could write.
I didn't worry about copyright because no one ever saw my films – YouTube
didn't exist – but I had good dialogue and story to learn how to tell a
story visually.

I challenge any budding film maker to try it; make two short films a month
for three months. After six finished movies see if you have gotten any
better.
 
directorik said:
That's technique. The details learned over time. Good to know
at some point, but not really the first things a budding film maker
should learn.

Allow yourself to make terrible movies.

These days showing your film to complete strangers is easier than
it ever was. So a budding film maker either unleashes horrible crap
to the masses and then gets offended or discouraged when people
who don't know them tell the truth or they don't make a movie until
they have everything they believe will make the movie great.

I believe the "old way" is still the best way; make movies. I understand
that just saying that put me in “old guy” category who dismisses new
technology and sits on the porch with the “in my day...” stories. But
I see so many people coming here to ask questions that COULD be
answered by trying. “In my day...” if I wondered how three lights would
look I set up three lights, shot some film (yes film), got it processed
and three or four days later looked at it. Then tried it again.

So my advice to budding film makers is; make movies. Make a short
film every weekend with your phone camera, with your GoPro, with
your dad's 10 year old camcorder. Each time try something different;
use lights in a different way, experiment with audio and camera moves.
“In my day...” is used one-act plays because I didn't think I could write.
I didn't worry about copyright because no one ever saw my films – YouTube
didn't exist – but I had good dialogue and story to learn how to tell a
story visually.

I challenge any budding film maker to try it; make two short films a month
for three months. After six finished movies see if you have gotten any
better.
Click to expand...

I like that. Thanks! I slightly disagree but am on-board for your main point, and I totally plan to incorporate it into my initial video.

The only way in which I kinda sorta disagree is simply because the logistics of the project I'm currently working on. I'm essentially trying to put together Filmmaking 101 for people who have no money, and one of my main selling-points is that there will be an organized curriculum, similar to how there'd be a curriculum for an actual university class.

There are a million free tutorials out there, many of them really great, but they're not organized like a film school. There are also a handful of online film schools, many of them really great, but none of them free. I need to find some way to set my web-series apart from the others, and the whole intent is that it'll be organized like a film school, with lessons presented in a specific order, and assignments given. But free! AND specifically geared towards people strapped for cash.

So yes, I'm definitely going to present things in a particular order, but I'm definitely going to include your advice. No reason why we can't do both! Thanks!
 
I'm with Rik.

You should learn to take action and make stuff, learn to try and not be afraid to 'waste time' with 'bad stuff'. And learn to listen to feedback and learn to be honest to yourself when reflecting on projects. Keep a little journal to write down what you learned from your projects: what went well and what would you dfferently next time.
Learn to work with other people.

My first 'movie' effort was shot on a webcam (about Chinese landing on the moon) and looks crappier than the footage from the moon landing. It was fun!

Do, do, do!
Reflect, try, experiment.

Don't use perfectionism as an excuse to not do anything.
Real perfectionists try again and again untill it is perfect.
Lazy perfectionists ponder, wait and read waiting for the moment it will be perfect without effort. And that never works.
 
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WalterB said:
I'm with Rik.

You should learn to take action and make stuff, learn to try and not be afraid to 'waste time' with 'bad stuff'. And learn to listen to feedback and learn to be honest to yourself when reflecting on projects. Keep a little journal to write down what you learned from your projects: what went well and what would you dfferently next time.
Learn to work with other people.

My first 'movie' effort was shot on a webcam (about Chinese landin on the moon) and looks crappier than the footage from the moon landing. It was fun!

Do, do, do!
Reflect, try, experiment.

Do use perfectionism as an excuse to not do anything.
Real perfectionists try again and again untill it is perfect.
Lazy perfectionists ponder, wait and read waiting for the moment it will be perfect without effort. And that never works.
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Thank you! I will do my best to include your thoughts into the initial episodes. Which, by the way, I also need to do better to follow your advice.
 
Btw, listening to feedback is not automaticly the same as doing what someone says.
Listening to feedback has a few stages:
1) You accept the giver of feedback has his/her own perspective SO you will try not to take it personal
2) Look at the feedback that was given. Don't fall into the defense reflex right away, but try to see how the feedback's perspective is different than yours.
3) If you want you can still explain your choices/limitations.
4) Try to imagine what it would have been if you followed the feedback.
5) You can choose to follow the given advice or not after this 4-step-contemplation.
 
WalterB said:
Btw, listening to feedback is not automaticly the same as doing what someone says.
Listening to feedback has a few stages:
1) You accept the giver of feedback has his/her own perspective SO you will try not to take it personal
2) Look at the feedback that was given. Don't fall into the defense reflex right away, but try to see how the feedback's perspective is different than yours.
3) If you want you can still explain your choices/limitations.
4) Try to imagine what it would have been if you followed the feedback.
5) You can choose to follow the given advice or not after this 4-step-contemplation.
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Definitely, that's true. For the record, I'm not just agreeing to include yours and Rik's input here out of politeness or anything like that. It's because I agree with what you're saying, and feel like it should be included in the curriculum. It's a little bit ironic, because you're both saying that their shouldn't really be a curriculum in the first place, but I genuinely feel like that viewpoint should be included in the curriculum. Basically, I feel like any valid film school should offer, and promote, other ways of doing things. :D
 
Yeah, I get what you are saying.
I do think there is a kind of curriculum, but it involves a certain attitude and allowing yourself babysteps and missteps. The idea that you can first learn everything and then make a smashing debut with your first effort is a fairytale. And it will stop people from learning, as I believe that you can only learn so much from watching and reading. Real understanding comes from doing and reflecting. Doing also creates contextual experience to understand the things you read and learn.
It is all connected :)

Like Rik says: if you wonder how something would look if.... the best way to find out is doing.
And doing can create new insights and new questions as well.
And last but not least: doing will trigger imagination and ideas.
Technique is something you will master along the way.

(A little first hand story about technique:
I own a Cinevate Atlas: a terrific slider. At first I made sideways slides with it, because when moving forward or backward you can see the track.
Untill 1 day I figure I can put 2 fluidheads on top of each other. Now moving forward is perfectly possible.
2 Weeks ago during 48 Hour I get a crazy idea: I want to shoot right down from the ceiling. 2 hours later we had a construction including 3 vertcal C-stands, 1 horizontal C-stand, the slider upsidedown and a MoVI gimbal.
I already have this slider for 6 years.
Imagine I would have to figure al these possibilities out before ever using it... I would have never touched it. But I just used it and figured out more and more possibilities along the way. :)

I know it is a bit of a strange analogy, but I do believe it is true for filmmaking.
Do, do, do.)
 
jax_rox said:
I'd also say learning the 'why' is just as important (if not more) than the 'how'.
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I'm with jax_rox here.
So many filmmakers seems to just follow along with what they think needs to be in a film based around whatever particular genre they're doing.

If they're making a horror film, they'll shoot in the dark, or in dimly lit locations with a lot of dark blues, they might use the Dutch angle a lot, and they'll go for the same old horror tropes.

If they're making an espionage or a mobster/gangster flick, they might shoot with a lot of wide angles, or a lot of tight closeups on people sitting around tables talking over money and interests, with a lot of jewelry, red carpets, and grind-house music going on in the background, unless things are a bit more seedy.

If they're making a western, they'll basically copy the best shots from a Leone picture, get one of their local country performers to knock out some guitar riffs, and maybe get lucky with a shot or two that actually stands up well next to a real Leone shot, while the rest are poorly composed because they have no clue how to frame up their subjects with their background and the edges of their viewfinder.


Basically what I'm driving at is that you shouldn't shoot a film some particular way just because you think it's how it should be done. What makes a film stand out is when you do something unexpected, different: you break the mold but still affect the audience the way you want them to be affected. And this will only work if you know WHY other films were shot the way they were, and WHY you are shooting your film the way you are.

You must have a purpose behind your style and the design of each individual shot. Context, juxtaposition, and individual purpose are key. These are the things that I believe turn amateur filmmakers into great filmmakers.
 
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