2000-3000 budget film camera (advise needed)

I'm a sound guy, specifically audio post, not a visuals person. Just wanted to get that out up front.

Why do you want to buy (unless you want to be a DP)? Why not rent or, even better, hire someone who already has a camera? The big issue is that with the $2k camera you really need at least $1k worth of accessories. Plus there is the learning curve, etc.

One of my mentors told me that unless I would be using it every day - or at least, fairly frequently - it's best not to buy it. Softwares and most digital hardwares (cameras, audio recorders, etc.) need to be updated or have been superceded by a newer model six (6) months later.

And the optics... It seems like you are crowd funding so you can buy yourself a camera.

The best investments in gear are quality accessories. Lights are lights, mics are mics, stands are stands... you get the idea. They haven't really changed that much in a long time. I have a few mics that I've owned for 25 years and more; in fact, my Shure SM-58 is almost 40 years old and still works great. Do you have any idea how many mixers, recorders and other devices (all now as outmoded as dinosaurs) it's been plugged into in all those years? I've had only two sets of (fairly expensive) speakers in the past quarter century; but I've been through eight (8) computers (or is it ten) and Bog knows how many software updates. Now, audio post is my business so it's a business expense and I use it all every day. But when I need a field audio recorder/mixer I rent - I only use them perhaps half a dozen times per year. Yeah, I have a "cheapo" that I own, but for serious work I rent.

It always comes back to being a director - the director is supposed to direct; not run the camera, not run the audio, etc. ad nauseam. Why spend money on gear that will used only two or three times a year and will be outdated by next year. Hire folks who have much more experience than you do in cinematography, production sound, editing, audio post, etc. and own their own gear. Now you can DIRECT. Now the quality of your film rests in the script and how well it was acted; there are no more technical issues to hold you back.

If you're wanting a 35mm sensor, you need an APS-C sized sensor, as that is the closest to motion picture film. The Sony you mentioned is full frame (too big) and the GH4 is 4/3" (too small).

Alcove Audio said:

I'm a sound guy, specifically audio post, not a visuals person. Just wanted to get that out up front.

Why do you want to buy (unless you want to be a DP)? Why not rent or, even better, hire someone who already has a camera? The big issue is that with the $2k camera you really need at least $1k worth of accessories. Plus there is the learning curve, etc.

One of my mentors told me that unless I would be using it every day - or at least, fairly frequently - it's best not to buy it. Softwares and most digital hardwares (cameras, audio recorders, etc.) need to be updated or have been superceded by a newer model six (6) months later.

Click to expand...

Im going to use the camera every 2nd day at least, thats the most reason why i chose a dsrl not a real ,,camera,, , - also getting the step done the ,,DP,, does, by myself makes is easier for me to make the movie as I write my own scripts and draw the storyboard.

I got a seperat budget for lighting and audio, but I deeply need a camera which can stand up for filmmaking ( right now im using a canon eos60d for about 1 1/2 year)


and btw even on wikipedia ( not on us, but on german) the alpha 7s is listed as full format not 35mm

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vollformatsensor - scroll to 2014


So any suggestions for a [full format] (pref. dsrl) camera within this budget?

Alcove Audio said:

I'm a sound guy, specifically audio post, not a visuals person. Just wanted to get that out up front.

Why do you want to buy (unless you want to be a DP)? Why not rent or, even better, hire someone who already has a camera? The big issue is that with the $2k camera you really need at least $1k worth of accessories. Plus there is the learning curve, etc.

One of my mentors told me that unless I would be using it every day - or at least, fairly frequently - it's best not to buy it. Softwares and most digital hardwares (cameras, audio recorders, etc.) need to be updated or have been superceded by a newer model six (6) months later.

Click to expand...

Im going to use the camera every 2nd day at least, thats the most reason why i chose a dsrl not a real ,,camera,, , - also getting the step done the ,,DP,, does, by myself makes is easier for me to make the movie as I write my own scripts and draw the storyboard.

I got a seperat budget for lighting and audio, but I deeply need a camera which can stand up for filmmaking ( right now im using a canon eos60d for about 1 1/2 year)


and btw even on wikipedia ( not on us, but on german) the alpha 7s is listed as full format not 35mm

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vollformatsensor - scroll to 2014


So any suggestions for a [full format] (pref. dsrm) camera within this budget?

mamoksche23 said:

...btw even on wikipedia ( not on us, but on german) the alpha 7s is listed as full format not 35mm

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vollformatsensor - scroll to 2014


So any suggestions for a [full format] (pref. dsrl) camera within this budget?

Click to expand...

Hi Lucas - the A7s sensor is close to the same size as a full frame 35mm photo frame - which is different from the Super 35 frame that has been used in motion pictures for over 100 years. Here is a good explanation (in English, I couldn't find one in German):

http://provideocoalition.com/sony/story/super_35_size_me/P2

Note the illustration. Still camera manufacturers created 35mm "full frame" cameras by turning 35mm motion picture film on its side to create a larger image size.

Today, the majority of motion pictures are shot in "Super 35" - not "full frame".

All of that said, in your price range, the best value for money Super 35 cinema camera is the 2498,74€ Blackmagic Production Camera 4K from Amazon Deutschland.

This camera was used to shoot the recent feature film, "Checkmate" with Danny Glover and Sean Astin. Here is an interview with the director: http://filmmakermagazine.com/87329-...blackmagic-production-camera-4k/#.VCABOfBX-uY

This camera has a global shutter, which means no CMOS skew or "jello" on fast pans or action shots - and it records Ultra High Definition (UHD) 12-bit RAW or 10-bit ProRes internally - no external recorders required.

The 2249€ A7s is a great low light B camera - but CMOS skew, lack of internal 4K (or internal 10 bit) - plus the razor thin focus margins of the full frame sensor would make it a problematic A camera, in my view.

And I love my 1499€ GH4, but it too suffers from skew, lack of internal 10-bit and you need a Speed Booster to give it the Super 35 crop factor and "look".

Hope this is helpful and good luck with your Kickstarter!

Bill

brunerww said:

Hi Lucas - the A7s sensor is close to the same size as a full frame 35mm photo frame - which is different from the Super 35 frame that has been used in motion pictures for over 100 years. Here is a good explanation (in English, I couldn't find one in German):

http://provideocoalition.com/sony/story/super_35_size_me/P2

Note the illustration. Still camera manufacturers created 35mm "full frame" cameras by turning 35mm motion picture film on its side to create a larger image size.

Today, the majority of motion pictures are shot in "Super 35" - not "full frame".

All of that said, in your price range, the best value for money Super 35 cinema camera is the 2498,74€ Blackmagic Production Camera 4K from Amazon Deutschland.

This camera was used to shoot the recent feature film, "Checkmate" with Danny Glover and Sean Astin. Here is an interview with the director: http://filmmakermagazine.com/87329-...blackmagic-production-camera-4k/#.VCABOfBX-uY

This camera has a global shutter, which means no CMOS skew or "jello" on fast pans or action shots - and it records Ultra High Definition (UHD) 12-bit RAW or 10-bit ProRes internally - no external recorders required.

The 2249€ A7s is a great low light B camera - but CMOS skew, lack of internal 4K (or internal 10 bit) - plus the razor thin focus margins of the full frame sensor would make it a problematic A camera, in my view.

And I love my 1499€ GH4, but it too suffers from skew, lack of internal 10-bit and you need a Speed Booster to give it the Super 35 crop factor and "look".

Hope this is helpful and good luck with your Kickstarter!

Bill

Click to expand...

Thanks mate, I started thinking about the budget and it just came in my mind instead of 4/3 gh4 go to ,,35mm,, with the sony, but i fully forgot that black magi doesnt just sell the pocket version at affordable prices ! - thanks for the advise

Worth noting that while the A7s does have a full frame sensor it also has an APS-c crop mode which will be much closer to the standard S35 frame size. This mode has the added benefit of greatly reduced rolling shutter, and results in cleaner slow motion when shooting at 60fps than the full frame mode.

Also - regarding the 'razor thin focus margins' of full frame - part of the camera's appeal is it's light sensitivity, which means there's less need to run wide open apertures just to get sufficient exposure. You've basically got the freedom to choose an aperture based on the DOF you want (rather than just the exposure) in most normal lighting situations.

That said, if you're looking for 4k onboard it's not a good choice - it only does 4k via an external recorder and the option that looks best (Atmos Shogun) isn't available yet. In your price range I believe the GH4 and BMPC are the only currently available cameras that do it on board.

sorry, double post...