Would you lie to your fans?

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sfoster

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A spoiler free character was killed in the latest season of game of thrones.

There is a lot of fan speculation that they will be resurrected - but the producers of the show and the actor both publicly stated that it won't happen and 'dead is dead'

It's great to be able to surprise your audience and maintain suspense, I know hitchcock went to great efforts for this effect when releasing Psycho.

Would you lie to your fans so that you can still surprise them?
How do you feel about that idea.
 
It would be a really miserable day for GoT if that actually happens, but I think it will.

Personally, I think the producers and actors should just shut up about the show - let it stand and fuel speculation on its own merits, as that's most of the fun. The recognition of writers and showrunners in this current TV golden age is to be welcomed, but they are pretty impossible to shut up once they have a microphone put in front of them.
 
I don’t like being lied to, but I guess it depends on the lie. But nobody likes being lied to, do they?

Truth is, in the GoT example, it’s likely that very few people actually know what’s going to happen in the future. And plans change all the time. If the character does return, at this point, I wouldn’t consider myself as having been lied to. If, however, the scene had been filmed, the character had returned, yet the producers continued to state that the character was not coming back, then I’d feel cheated. I don’t think most producers would do that intentionally though, as it would anger a lot of fans. They normally stick to saying “Wait and see…”.

You’re right about Hitchcock; he did go to great efforts to make sure people were surprised when they saw Psycho. I’m not sure he ever lied to his audience about the film though, did he?

One of the main points I bring up in arguments about “The Dark Knight” (arguments where I’ll state that, although it is an excellent film, it isn’t the perfect movie that many people claim it to be) is the lie that we’re told in the beginning. During the bank heist, were told that this one particular robber has brown hair. His hair is brown. We can see it; it’s brown. Then, once he takes his mask off, revealing himself to be Joker, suddenly, his hair is green. Somebody’s listed this on IMDB as a continuity error. It’s not. They knew what they were doing; they were lying to the audience. That, to my mind, is a dirty lie. Sure, if the guy had green hair, we’d have known it was Joker straight away. So, instead of coming up with something clever, the filmmakers just decided to brazenly lie to the audience. I hate that.

So, in summary, I’d say no, I wouldn’t lie to fans.
 
Resurrect King Joffrey!

But I think I agree with m_h in so much as I'm not certain anyone really knows what's going on with Game of Thrones at the moment. The show has started to deviate considerably from the books and they are pretty much run out of new material to work with. Given that the new book isn't due out until the end of 2015 at the earliest, I think they're going to have to find a way to work around that for the next season.

Dead is dead. The white walkers are dead. That weird red priest was dead. I'm not convinced they would've told a lie if, at some point next season, Bob Rain was resurrected from the 'dead is dead', in some capacity.
 
Well, you can resurrect dead characters under some conditions. for example in fictional series related to things like god, demons and ... , it's not that much out of mind that some one could come back alive. like they did several times in Supernatural. But in realistic series if you wanna resurrect a character you better have good reasons about how did he survived.

About your question, No, I wouldn't. It's not right to lie to your audiences about the series. If the creators said the character's dead, it has to be. otherwise the creators are just some jerks who lie about it. It wouldn't be a surprise if they say he's dead and you see the otherwise, it would be insulting the audiences.

So, always tell the truth, and if they're going to be some spoilers if you tell the truth, so better be quiet and make no comments about it.
 
Is it
Jon Snow
? Grrrr. If so, it was spoiled for me on some facebook thing. I'm surprised. I had the impression
he'd
would win the "prize" at the end of the series. But I haven't read the books yet, either.

I would be worried that they'd kill GoT's credibility by doing so. It's the show that kills MCs off without blinking. Isn't that one of its selling points, actually?

But I don't want
him
dead. So...

And maybe if magic is increasing in the GoT's world, then maybe some plausible magical explanation will do?

No, though, I don't think I'd lie about it the way it sounds they're doing, if that's what they're doing.

And I can't help wondering if the reason for the death is because the actor wants to leave the show. Or maybe
he
wanted too much $$$, and they couldn't come to an agreement.
 
it's not an actor thing since it lines up with the books.
i haven't read the but that's what I've been told.

and yeah sorry it was spoiled for you. there were an insane amount of spoilers going on recently.

I have an extension on my browser called social fixer. you can set keywords and it will filter them out of your newsfeed.

So for example you could have stannis, game of thrones, john snow, GoT, tyrion, etc, as keywords and it would hide any posts from you.
 
richy: They've left enough hints/clues that, if they are brought back to life, it wouldn't feel like a cop out. Also, in that series finale there were a number of other major characters whose fate is left uncertain – I won't name them to avoid spoiling it for you – but there are 7 who might be dead, and each of their fates is left slightly ambiguous.

I don't think it would break GoT's policy of slaying its MCs, if one of them was brought back to life by an established magical precedent.
 
NickClapper said:
I don't think it would break GoT's policy of slaying its MCs, if one of them was brought back to life by an established magical precedent.
Click to expand...

Bringing back a main character is a big deal though, and hasn't happened up till now. I loved the latest season, but it frequently became self-consciously gimmicky in style, and for me this would be a gimmick too far, and would potentially have the waterskiier heading out into shark-infested waters... I understand that people love this particular character (despite the terrible acting involved), so can see how D&D think they'll be able to get away with it easily enough.
 
maz said:
Bringing back a main character is a big deal though, and hasn't happened up till now. I loved the latest season, but it frequently became self-consciously gimmicky in style, and for me this would be a gimmick too far, and would potentially have the waterskiier heading out into shark-infested waters... I understand that people love this particular character (despite the terrible acting involved), so can see how D&D think they'll be able to get away with it easily enough.
Click to expand...

I don't for a moment think they'd bring him back just to satisfy the fans – but I do think we've been teased for 4 seasons now with the promise of the Lord of Light's magic and the power of King's Blood. And the series is called a Song of Fire and Ice! So, at some point, we're going to have to see that sort of magic taking a bigger role in the fight against the White Walkers, and my guess is that resurrecting Bob Rain might be the start of that.

I would agree with you that it would be a problem if the show brought back Ned Stark or Robert Baratheon or even Robb or Caitlyn, but I don't think that Bob Rain's ambiguous fate is in the same category.
 
NickClapper said:
I don't for a moment think they'd bring him back just to satisfy the fans
Click to expand...

You make fair points, but this is not what I was arguing - more that the expected reaction to this kind of gimmick would automatically be muted because of who the character is, and that's why D&D believe they can get away with it.

As a general rule, though, I despise the get-out-of-jail card of resurrection magic. It removes all true peril from a story if even death isn't really a threat and anyone can just pop back at any time with a bit of hand-waving. That's one thing that J.K. Rowling got right (she probably copied it off somebody though, as with the rest of it...)
 
Sounds good to me, Nick.

But I empathize with your points, as well, Maz.

I'm guessing it will come down to execution.

I haven't seen any of Season Five, yet. But based on the previous seasons, I think they've earned some good faith...at least from me, by thus far having written and produced a marvelous show.

Like you pointed out, Nick, they've already introduced the possibility of resurrection (when the Lord of Light is willing), so, why not?

I'm not saying they should or shouldn't resurrect any MCs. I would only say: make it good, guys, please, whatever you decide. :)

My guess, though, is that if they're saying they will not bring
Jon Snow
back, then I would bet they will not bring
Jon Snow
back. Maybe only because it sounds like a really good way to really annoy the fans, if for no other reason.

But based upon what you guys have said, it sounds like other characters might be candidates.

So does
Jon Snow
die in the books in the same or similar way, or in the same time frame as in the show?
 
The death is the same in the book. The reasons are different as it was motivated by a side plot that the show didn't have time for.
 
richy said:
Sounds good to me, Nick.

But I empathize with your points, as well, Maz.

I'm guessing it will come down to execution.

I haven't seen any of Season Five, yet. But based on the previous seasons, I think they've earned some good faith...at least from me, by thus far having written and produced a marvelous show.

Like you pointed out, Nick, they've already introduced the possibility of resurrection (when the Lord of Light is willing), so, why not?

I'm not saying they should or shouldn't resurrect any MCs. I would only say: make it good, guys, please, whatever you decide. :)

My guess, though, is that if they're saying they will not bring
Jon Snow
back, then I would bet they will not bring
Jon Snow
back. Maybe only because it sounds like a really good way to really annoy the fans, if for no other reason.

But based upon what you guys have said, it sounds like other characters might be candidates.

So does
Jon Snow
die in the books in the same or similar way, or in the same time frame as in the show?
Click to expand...

Personally, I think Mr Frozen Precipitation will die and be resurrected as a different character entirely - his oath is to the death, so he'll be resurrected free to become a Stark (maybe with magical powers at the same time that Arya also has magical powers, and so does Bran) and get his revenge on a lot of Stark-killers down south, and also make a play for the throne if you believe that theory.

Anyway, that would mean they can say (truthfully) that Mr Frozen Precipitation is dead, and still have him reappear for tedious fangirls to squee about without anyone complaining too much.

I'm more interested in whether Stannis is alive - it's not like GoT to pass over the chance to show a head rolling.

I should add overall that season five was probably my favourite since the first season, and the best since Eddard lost his headdard for character and story development (except Dorne which was rubbish) - but the showrunners have now become so wedded to various gimmicks that they keep going back to the same few wells over and over again.
 
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“Sorry!” the 29-year-old says in the above video excerpt. “I’d like to say sorry for lying to everyone.

The question has been answered about these people lying to their fans.
interesting. I doubt there will be any negative feedback.
 
maz said:
As a general rule, though, I despise the get-out-of-jail card of resurrection magic. It removes all true peril from a story if even death isn't really a threat and anyone can just pop back at any time with a bit of hand-waving.
Click to expand...

Death by fire is the purest death.
 
I realize this discussion is intended to be about GoT, so I'm not sure if I'm changing the subject here, but...

Anybody remember the marketing for Scream? The trailers, the posters, every thing about the marketing had the audience thinking that Drew Barrymore's character would be the lone survivor. The surprise in the opening scene, then, was an absolute gut-punch. It was like, damn, you killed off the main star? All rules are off, from here on out.

There's a movie idea I have that would use a similar strategy. The trailer, posters, official plot-synopsis would lead the audience to believe that the movie is about _________. But then, halfway through the movie, there's a huge plot twist, and now we see the movie to be about something else entirely. I like it. Lie to your audience in the marketing, absolutely. When appropriate, that is.
 
Well, it happened, and it was maybe the worst TV scene I have ever seen. Really, really dreadful, especially when set against the quality in the rest of the show.
 
What did you find so bad about it maz? I get that you may not like the idea of the resurrection at all, but it surely can't be the worst thing you've ever seen on TV?

I know it's not yet been released, but do we know if this happens in the book, or have the TV producers just gone ahead with this off their own backs? If it does happen in the book, does that change your opinion of it maz?
 
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