Level limits for a score

There are no hard and fast rules regarding the volume levels of the score for delivery to the rerecording mixers (except that they HATE any compression on the score being delivered to them). Topping out at -6dB isn't a bad rule of thumb, but it can be a bit higher or a bit lower.

You need to keep in mind that the rerecording mixers will be changing the levels of the score according to the needs of the entire film - the visuals, the rest of the sound track, the emotional content, the excitement content, etc.

Now, if you are being given the specific instruction that when you deliver your score the levels must be between -6dB and -16dB you should deliver it that away - after you very strongly but very politely let the producer(s)/director know that this is a severely limiting restriction. Film scores are not pop music; dynamics are extremely important to emotional music like a film score.

BTW, you'll probably have to educate them as to the meaning of "Dynamics" in a musical context, especially with so much pop music being hyper-compressed. Maybe playing the second movement of Symphony No. 94 by Haydn (the "Surprise Symphony") will help educate them as to the importance of a wide (musical) dynamic range. I've never measured it, but it must be at least a 30dB difference between the end of the quiet passage and the "Surprise" chord. Legend has it that it caused heart attacks before people knew what to expect.

It sounds like these are newbs who are "mixing" to statistics rather than their ears, most probably because they are mixing it themselves on some crappy speakers in an untreated environment and not retaining someone who actually knows audio post & rerecording mixing and has the proper tools & mixing environment.

Thank you for your answer.
In fact, I was in charge of everything that concerned sound, so there will not be any rerecording mixing. I must mix the final audio track for the film. They gave me this range (not the director, but the people in charge of the theater), -16dB to -6dB, so that it sounds well (that's what they said, at least) in the theater where the film will be screened (because other short films will be screened before and after, without the level being ajusted between each film; therefore all the scores need to be in the same range).
I just don't see how I could have all my sounds between -16dB and -6dB. I guess I'll just top it at -6...
You confirmed my intuition that I could hardly fit my dynamics in a 10 dB range... (It's a horror movie... I currently have some sections around -25 dB and others approaching 0 dB...)
I'll assuredly remember your anecdote about Haydn's piece! A convincing argument indeed.
As this range was the general instruction for every film being screened, and that a lot of them, I guess, don't need the dynamics of a horror movie, do you think it would be safe to go higher than -6dB? because there are some big screams and impacts that NEED to be very loud in order to achieve the desired effect.
Thanks again.

I always leave some headroom; if I've done it right hottest part of the mix should be about -2dB. (Greg/APE is probably cringing about now...)

Mixing for picture is very hard to do, especially if you can't mix at a proper mix facility - you're always guessing. There are hundreds of tips and tricks to learn - and I'm still learning them! For score and effects the concept of perceived loudness can be done with EQ and judicious use of compression. One trick I was taught was to send the score to a second sub-buss with some compression to blend in with the primary score if I needed more impact; just fading it in a little bit made a huge difference. I'm currently working on a project that has a lot of weapons play; I'm heavily EQing and compressing the gun shots, also on a sub-buss. This way I can pull them down in the mix but they still have a lot of impact.

Of course, what is really needed for very dynamic sounds is room to breathe. A pistol shot during an artillery barrage has no impact; a firecracker under your chair on a quiet Sunday afternoon in the back yard will scare the life out of you!

The guy you really want to talk to is our friend Greg (APE - AudioPostExpert); he is a professional rerecording mixer. I'm an editor who gets stuck mixing a lot.

Erm... How can they say "the score has to be between X and X" and not "the film's sound" as a whole? Wouldn't you mix the whole thing together at the end to make everything fit? It's just a little surprising to me.
Unless of course they felt they were dealing with a beginner and so the best advice they could give was -16 to -6 in order to prevent major issues...

Thanks a lot for these tips, Alcove Audio.

MetalRenard, in fact this range is for the film's sound as a whole, not only the score. I am in charge of all the sounds of the film.

What I might suggest is that you mix the film as it should be with full dynamic range. Then save a copy and do a version mixed through a compressor as if you were mixing for the internet - that's probably what these particular screeners are used to, and you'll already have your internet version mixed.

n_lecorff said:

There is going to be a screening of the film soon, and I have been told that, in order to sound well in the theater, the level of the music must be in the range of -16dB to -6dB.
I never had to deal with such an instruction in the past. I usually simply make sure that the level meter doesn't go in the "red zone"... Is there a way I should proceed to make sure that I respect the range?

Click to expand...

As MetalRenard said, the level of the music is irrelevant, the only relevant level is the level of the entire sound mix. Your music could be playing in the background, say at -18dB for example, so would be too quiet for the specifications given. At the same time, with some shouting, explosions or other sounds in the sound mix, the levels could be at say -0.1dB, which would be too loud for the specifications given.

Even if they are talking about the sound (rather than just the music) mix being -16dB to -6dB, this is a completely bizarre specification for a theatre, in fact it's a completely bizarre specification for anything audio; TV, DVD, internet or even a commercial music CD. This spec is way too loud for a TV mix and a TV mix is already way louder than a theatrical mix. Played back in a standard theatre, a mix at these levels is going to have the entire audience immediately run out of the cinema.

The problem facing film festivals where the screening takes place in a cinema is that indie filmmakers do not have the equipment to create a theatrical sound mix and usually have no idea what they are doing when it comes to mixing sound. Some submissions are at levels only appropriate for music CDs, others at levels more appropriate for TV and some attempt to achieve theatrical type levels. The difference between these levels is absolutely immense, very roughly speaking a mix to music CD standards is likely to be 20-40 times higher than a theatrical mix. In other words, a sound mix submitted at music CD levels would likely have to be turned down by roughly 30dB for playback in a cinema otherwise the audience would run screaming out of the cinema with their hands over their ears.

So what festivals have to do is test every film to be screened, make note of an appropriate playback level for each film and then change the playback level before each film is screened to the audience. Obviously this takes considerable time, so it seems as if this particular festival is maybe trying to avoid this whole testing scenario by specifying a very small range of extremely high dB levels (-16dB to -6dB). In theory, they can turn down the cinema playback system by say -20dB or so just once (before any of the screenings start) and then just reset the levels to the normal theatrical setting once all the festival screenings are finished. This makes it easier and cheaper for the festival but means there is no opportunity for the filmmakers to use any more than a tiny fraction of the dynamic range of which a theatrical sound system is capable. To give you some idea, TV usually has a dynamic range of 20dB or so and film can be 60dB (these are extremely rough figures btw). In other words, a theatrical system can use roughly 300 times more dynamic range than the 10dB range you are being allowed!

BTW, making sure the level meter does not go into the "red zone" is fine for music CDs but would be unusable for TV broadcast or for theatrical sound.

G