Shotgun mic vs boom vs lavalier/lapel mic

T

that1guyy

I'm a bit of a noob at filmmaking and haven't actually made anything yet. I'm just trying to gather information.

So I understand what each type of microphone is and I've heard that a boom mic is mostly used in movie making. Why is this and what's wrong with the others? And what are the advantages of recording audio on an digital audio recorder rather than directly on the camera?

Also, on a side note, I'm planning on buying a Canon Vixia hfs21 and can anyone suggest some microphones for that?
 
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Yes, I get that, but what exactly are the advantages of having a microphone above the actors' heads versus having a directional mic attached to the camera and aiming it at the actors or cleverly hiding a lapel mic on the actors themselves?

And if anyone can, please try to answer the other questions in my original post^

Thanks!
 
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that1guyy said:
Yes, I get that,
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I apologize for telling you something you already knew. When you used
the term "boom mic" I thought, perhaps, you didn't know there is no
such thing. Not against you at all, I just wanted to be clear. Sorry.

that1guyy said:
but what exactly are the advantages of having a microphone above the actors' heads versus having a directional mic attached to the camera and aiming it at the actors or cleverly hiding a lapel mic on the actors themselves?
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The further away the mic is from the actors, the higher the volume needs
to be. The higher the volume, the more “noise” you get. Your goal is to
have a very high signal to noise ratio - more signal (the dialogue) less noise
(the background). Even a very good, expensive directional top of the line mic
mounted on the camera will pick up a lot of background ambiance because it’s
far away from the actors.

There is also the "sweet spot". I am always amazed watching an
experienced boom op delicately moving the mic ever so carefully
(and very quickly) during a dialogue scene to make sure it is aimed
directly at each actor speaking. They can be true, unrecognized
masters of the production process.

Hiding lapel mics can be quite a challenge. If you are using wired mics the
wires have to be hidden under the clothes and wrangled all the way to the
camera or recorder. That's a lot of wires with even two actors - three or four
in a scene can be a nightmare. And now you need to buy two to five mics
rather than one.

Then they all need to be mixed properly on set. If you are using wireless mics
the transmitter needs to be hidden and when there are three or four actors in
a scene that means three or four mics, transmitters and receivers. That can
be expensive and takes quite a bit of skill by the sound tech to balance and mix
several mics.
 
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that1guyy said:
So I understand what each type of microphone is and I've heard that a boom mic is mostly used in movie making. Why is this and what's wrong with the others?
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'Rik has covered the basics fairly well. BTW, your subject line and the way you asked the question suggested that you did not know that mics were attached to a boom, and that you thought that there was such a thing as a "boom mic." Also, if you really did know what each type of microphone was - shotgun, cardioid, supercardioid, hypercardioid, omni and uni; dynamic, condensor, electret and ribbon - you wouldn't be asking these questions.

that1guyy said:
And what are the advantages of recording audio on an digital audio recorder rather than directly on the camera?
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The audio implementation of most camcorders is pretty bad (DLSRs are infinitely worse). They tend to have very noisy mic pre-amps. The camera in which you have interest only has a minipin input for audio. True dedicated production sound mixers and recorders have "real time" audio controls (physical knobs), have XLR inputs and outputs, have proper audio metering and monitoring, provide phantom power, provide limiting and low cut, record uncompressed audio at higher bit/sample rates, and distribute the audio properly. You are also not tethered to the camera, and the production sound mixer has more freedom of action.

that1guyy said:
can anyone suggest some microphones for that?
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What's your budget? A single shotgun mic can cost anywhere from $275 to over $2,000, and you need a selection of mics to accommodate specific situations.

What are you shooting? Docs, EFP and ENG each have different requirements.



To expand on 'Riks comments...

Placing lavs properly so that optimum pick-up is achieved with a minimum of excess noise and clothing rustle can be difficult to achieve.

Just so you know my profession is doing audio post. I always go to the boomed mic first as it always sounds the most natural.

And one more just for fun...


The Inverse Square Law

In simple terms, this means that a sound twice as far away is only one-fourth as loud. A sound four times as far away is only one-sixteenth as loud. So a human voice that records with adequate volume three feet away is just one-sixteenth as effective at twelve feet.
 
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Thanks both Rik and Alcove.

I meant I understood the most basic differences between those three mics mentioned, as in one is very small and hidden on one's person, another is attached to a boom and dangles above the actors' head, and so on. I suppose the way I worded it may make it sound as if I believed there is a type of mic designed differently from the others that is fused to a long pole or something...however I felt it saying "boom mic" was easier to type than "mic attached on a boom." Forgive me for the confusion...

Anyways, what I understood from your responses is that lapels are costly, hard to hide, are inconvenient b/c of wires or transmitters and hard to place b/c of unwanted rustling noise. The closer the mic is to the subject the better b/c it removes that unwanted noise. Also, using a boom instead of pointing a shotgun mic from far away is more practical in that shotgun mics sound less "natural." And using the built in mic on the camera is just wrong.

Like I mentioned, I am very new to this and have not filmed anything yet, though I have several ideas. I am mostly planning on doing short films, some of them with a voice-over narrated by me, others having dialogue with actors on screen. I am a student and cannot afford much so I'm looking for a reasonable balance between quality and price. ($200-300)

Ok thanks for the help fellas.
 
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You can make a DIY boom-pole for about $40. Lots of 'How To" vids on YouTube.

The Rode NTG-2 and Audio-Technica AT897 are good choices as they can supply their own phantom power; you'll need an impedance matcher (PearStone LMT-100) to use it with your camera. Lots of vendors have kits that include the impedance matcher and a shock-mount.

You may want to check out the Rode VideoMic Pro; it's low-end prosumer, but an acceptable choice for beginners.
 
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@ that1guy

Key to success is knowing that you dont know what you dont know. Don't get offended when these pros are giving you an education. You may "think" you know what your talking about but your last post continues making statements to the contrary.

Im no pro, and at the feet of these same guys Iv learned a few things.. for example:

A shotgun mic is not a shotgun mic simply by virtue of it being camera mounted. In outdoor situations you will almost always see a shotgun mic on the end of the boom pole. Indoors you will likely find something different on that boom pole. That said, it is common to find shotgun type mics on ENG cameras, but not always. I sometimes run a short cardioid on my hand held rig, its not very directional but gets good "ambiance" sound which is normally what I want.
 
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Alcove Audio said:
You can make a DIY boom-pole for about $40. Lots of 'How To" vids on YouTube.

The Rode NTG-2 and Audio-Technica AT897 are good choices as they can supply their own phantom power; you'll need an impedance matcher (PearStone LMT-100) to use it with your camera. Lots of vendors have kits that include the impedance matcher and a shock-mount.

You may want to check out the Rode VideoMic Pro; it's low-end prosumer, but an acceptable choice for beginners.
Click to expand...

hows the rode for the t2i
 
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Cool I checked out your suggestios Alcove. The Rode videomic pro looks great! But it seems kinda gigantic compared to the camera I plan to use (vixia hfs21) Also I think I have to buy some sort of adapter to make it work on a Canon?

How does Canon's own DM-100 compare to the rode videomic pro or ntg2?
 
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Good subject to explore. I do a lot of interviewing. I usually use lav mics, wired. They are cheap, low or no interference, decent to excellent sound. HOWEVER, I have run into lots of problems; the mics are almost always visible (less of a problem with interviews, since everyone expects to see a lav on a person's shirt or collar). And there can be a problem with clothes noise. I once shot an hour-long interview with a director; as long as he sat still, there was no noise. When he was gesturing, there was clothing noise. This man was a serial gesturer! I'm sorry to report that the interview was pretty much ruined. (No, I didn't use headphones while recording...I learned my lesson that day!!!)

Boom mics are great; they even work well for interviews. The problem is that the interviewee can't move, or the sound will fall off. They can't turn their head much, or you'll notice a definite volume loss. And some people just don't like this shotgun mic close to them; it's not a natural thing to see.

A boom operator is over-kill for an interview if you are on a budget, but it's used sometimes if there is time and money. I've seldom used one.

Wireless lavs are fine, but they are expensive and something I'd rather rent than buy.
 
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Wired lavs are your cheapest option if you are just shooting low budget. I've used cheap wired lavs and paid less that $50 for them. They are self powered and have a mini-jack, so they will work with any consumer camcorder that takes an external mic.

Another option is to record on a portable field recorder with built-in mics like the Zoom H4n. I had a sound guy tell me he liked the mics on the Zoom almost as well as a low-cost mic on a boom.
 
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Like all microphones, the key is getting the microphone within 18" or less of the talent. Getting the NTG-3, in the proper setting, within 18" of the talent and aimed properly at the sweet spot, and equipped with appropriate wind protection, will indeed reduce quite a bit of the background noise although the first step in getting quality production sound is to eliminate, as much as possible, any outside noises you do not want recorded. However, putting a NTG-3 on top of a camera, and expecting quality production sound is futile.

thedude4242 said:
sorry to hi-jack the threat would the rode ntg-3 being used reduce the background noise and produce a quality sounds. I am looking to get this and the zoom h4n.
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