> Distribution: Thetrical, DVD/BR, All Media

rayw

rayw

My beyond VOD distribution quest has led me so far away from where it began that I felt it appropriate to start its own thread.

Beginning with this spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...WGNZNExVQVRnMkFEbDUxRldlSHc&usp=sharing#gid=0
... I felt that I needed some context on just "how many users/views were appropriate" for small release films.

So, I built this context spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...MjdCRnVCTU95TXk2Y2NDd3JmS3c&usp=sharing#gid=0
... using data collected from this link: http://boxofficemojo.com/yearly/cha...2=domestic&yr=2012&sort=open&order=ASC&p=.htm
... which:
>> NOTE: I'm excluding foreign films since their primary audience is non-U.S. which renders useless revenue and user data, and documentaries since those are kinda specialty non-narrative films which renders useless data. And animations, too.​

I don't have time right now to start building yet a third spreadsheet to overtly outline just how minuscule the theatrical revenue is for these limited theatrical release films, (and most of what we're likely to produce around here is going straight to DVD/VOD [if at all] = even fewer user/views/revenue), but I wanted to provide the preliminary data below ASAP just in case you had a few minutes to burn cogitating on revenue vs. expense.

Profit or Earnings = Revenue - Expenses​

ANCHOR BAY FILMS http://boxofficemojo.com/studio/cha...entertainment.htm&sort=open&order=DESC&p=.htm
MONTEREY MEDIA http://boxofficemojo.com/studio/cha...tereymediainc.htm&sort=open&order=DESC&p=.htm
MAGNOLIA/MAGNET RELEASING http://boxofficemojo.com/studio/cha...udio=magnolia.htm&sort=open&order=DESC&p=.htm
FOCUS FEATURES http://boxofficemojo.com/studio/cha...&studio=focus.htm&sort=open&order=DESC&p=.htm
IFC Films http://boxofficemojo.com/studio/cha...es&studio=ifc.htm&sort=open&order=DESC&p=.htm
TRIBECA FILM http://boxofficemojo.com/studio/cha...o=tribecafilm.htm&sort=open&order=DESC&p=.htm
FOUND-CHARGER CINEMA http://boxofficemojo.com/studio/chart/?studio=zomularmedia.htm
INDICAN http://boxofficemojo.com/studio/cha...tudio=indican.htm&sort=open&order=DESC&p=.htm
ROADSIDE ATTRACTIONS http://boxofficemojo.com/studio/cha...deattractions.htm&sort=open&order=DESC&p=.htm
DATARI TURNER PRODUCTIONS http://boxofficemojo.com/studio/chart/?studio=datariturner.htm
Millennium Entertainment http://boxofficemojo.com/studio/cha...entertainment.htm&sort=open&order=DESC&p=.htm
DADA FILMS http://boxofficemojo.com/studio/cha...s&studio=dada.htm&sort=open&order=DESC&p=.htm
ATO PICTURES http://boxofficemojo.com/studio/cha...o=atopictures.htm&sort=open&order=DESC&p=.htm
PARAMOUNT VANTAGE http://boxofficemojo.com/studio/cha...amountvantage.htm&sort=open&order=DESC&p=.htm
CINEMA GUILD http://boxofficemojo.com/studio/cha...o=cinemaguild.htm&sort=open&order=DESC&p=.htm
Drafthouse Films http://boxofficemojo.com/studio/cha...afthousefilms.htm&sort=open&order=DESC&p=.htm

 
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Welsh Gambit provided a cool data find on DVD & Blu-ray info that can be compared with the theatrical releases for some additional perspective.
http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/435265-earnings-for-2013-wwe-studios-films

WWE Studios : http://www.imdb.com/company/co0242604/?ref_=tt_dt_co

The Call - from 6/30 to 8/4, U.S. DVD&BR Distro : Sony Pictures Home Entertainment
sold 468,917 DVD copies for a gross of $8,513,782
sold 133,371 Blu-ray copies a gross of $3,142,841.

http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=call2013.htm
Total Lifetime Grosses
Domestic: $51,872,378 75.6%
+ Foreign: $16,700,000 24.4%
= Worldwide: $68,572,378

Ratings: 6.6/10 from 49,797 users
Budget: $13,000,000

http://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Call-The#tab=video-sales
Theatrical Performance
Domestic Box Office $51,872,378 Details
International Box Office $7,066,390
Worldwide Box Office $58,938,768
Home Market Performance
Domestic DVD Sales $9,302,898 Details
Domestic Blu-ray Sales $3,469,311 Details
Total Domestic Video Sales $12,772,209





Dead Man Down - from 7/14 to 8/4, U.S. DVD&BR Distro : Sony Pictures Home Entertainment
sold 188,501 DVD copies for a gross of $3,418,711
sold 94,805 Blu-ray copies for a gross of $1,824,178.

http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=deadmandown.htm
Total Lifetime Grosses
Domestic: $10,895,295 60.3%
+ Foreign: $7,179,244 39.7%
= Worldwide: $18,074,539

Ratings: 6.5/10 from 33,583 users
Budget: $30,000,000

http://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Dead-Man-Down#tab=video-sales
Theatrical Performance
Domestic Box Office $10,895,295 Details
International Box Office $8,007,898
Worldwide Box Office $18,903,193
Home Market Performance
Domestic DVD Sales $4,135,519 Details
Domestic Blu-ray Sales $2,065,589 Details
Total Domestic Video Sales $6,201,108

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Man_Down



12 Rounds 2 - since June, U.S. DVD&BR Distro : 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment
DVD gross of $919,421
Blu-ray gross of $584,831

D-T-V
Ratings: 5.2/10 from 1,669 users
Budget: $4,000,000

http://www.the-numbers.com/movie/12-Rounds-Reloaded
Theatrical Performance
Domestic Box Office $0 Details
Home Market Performance
Domestic DVD Sales $919,421 Details
Domestic Blu-ray Sales $584,831 Details
Total Domestic Video Sales $1,504,252

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_Rounds_2:_Reloaded



The Marine 3 - since March, U.S. DVD&BR Distro : 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment
DVD gross of $2,570,365
Blu-ray gross of $730,820

D-T-V
Ratings: 4.8/10 from 1,779 users
Budget: $1,500,000

http://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Marine-3-Homefront-The
Theatrical Performance
Domestic Box Office $0 Details
Home Market Performance
Domestic DVD Sales $2,570,365 Details
Domestic Blu-ray Sales $730,820 Details
Total Domestic Video Sales $3,301,185

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Marine_3:_Homefront



599​
 
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Attention Screenwriters: If You Wanna See Your Screenplay On Screen Learn To Direct!

I just got started with page two of this which includes reported international revenues, IMDB ratings & users, and the writer-director-producer correlation.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...hyS1pFRHgxMWUtZVlDR1N3eUE&usp=drive_web#gid=1

The correlation is huge for writer-directors! (As I knew it would be. :yes: )

20131203WriterDirectorsofAnchorBayFilms_zps3ba77c64.png


Peddling spec screenplays is for rubes. :lol:

653​
 
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mlesemann said:
When I read this, I thought it would make an interesting addition to this discussion:
http://filmmakermagazine.com/82535-hal-hartley-offers-ned-rifle-distribution-rights-as-kickstarter-rewards/#.UpOC-3-9KSN

If you're not familiar with Hal Hartley, you can see his credits here:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001325/?ref_=nv_sr_2
Click to expand...

Not sure if anyone noticed, but turns out KickStarter forced him to remove them as offered rewards as it got into too many grey areas with respect to investing.

He still pulled it off though, but I'm not sure how people will feel thinking they'd bought rights and then having them yanked like that. Although, he may well have worked out a side deal with them anyway.

Interesting though.

CraigL
 
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I'm Surprised, And I Already Expected This

If you wanna see your screenplay on screen - you gotta learn to direct, and probably not be bashful about putting some skin in the game as producer, too.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...hyS1pFRHgxMWUtZVlDR1N3eUE&usp=drive_web#gid=1

Code: 
Wr = Writer
Dir = Director
Pr = Producer

cX = Co-Writer or Co-Director
Almost all of these have multiple producers, so an "X" in the "Pr" column likely means the writer, co-writer, director, and/or co-director are among many others as the film's producer.
XY | X | Y = indicates the co-writer was director, and the other co-writer was producer
XY | XY | X or Y = indicates the co-writers were also co-directors, but only the other co-writer was producer
XY | XY | XY = indicates the co-writers were also co-directors and producers
X | Y | XY = indicates the writer and separate director were also producers

20131207WriterDirectorProducers1_zpscb5427bc.png


20131207WriterDirectorProducers2_zps229f3265.png


Again: Peddling spec screenplays is for rubes. :lol:



And I think it's safe to say this applies to direct-to-video/VOD/youtube as well.

739​
 
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SkyCopeland said:
I'm sorry If I'm miss reading your chart... or if this has no relevance... but did all but like 2 of those movies made no profit and for the most part huge losses?
Click to expand...
Pretty much what it looks like from just the theatrical releases. :(
And then if you goto the full spreadsheet link you'll see that that's largely the experience of most of these film producers and even for the distributors.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...SThyS1pFRHgxMWUtZVlDR1N3eUE&usp=sharing#gid=0

Code: 
Distributors		Per Film		Theaters	Budget
Anchor Bay Films		$420,952		48	$7,360,000
ATO Pictures		$432,179		41	$14,887,600
Cinema Guild		$82,488		4	foreign
Dada Films		$52,870		6	foreign
Entertainment One		$232,593		26	$15,125,000
Focus Features		$18,174,695	1,072	$17,928,947
Fox Searchlight Pictures	$14,217,795	659	$11,591,304
IFC Films			$343,978		21	$4,888,696
Indican Pictures		$36,197		4	$1,183,636
Magnolia Home Ent.		$354,952		24	$5,779,318
Millennium Entertainment	$781,031		65	$18,363,636
Monterey Media		$26,397		7	$6,160,000
Paladin			$145,175		24	$2,050,000
Paramount Vantage		$4,784,816	672	$15,850,000
Roadside Attractions	$2,410,700	179	$6,462,500
Samuel Goldwyn Films	$1,167,943	105	$6,575,000
Sony Pictures Classics	$3,786,446	220	$10,441,111
Tribeca Film		$26,011		5	$2,546,000
Variance Films		$83,105		11	$3,100,000

Averages			$2,503,175	168	$8,840,750

$2.5m average thetrical revenue
$8.8m average production budget

Looks like a pandemic loss in the industry to me! :yes::grumpy:

Crazy.
 
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This is more of a thought but I have always wondered what would happen if a film was judged in it's box office performance only by how many people who watched the film wanted a refund and then take that amount off what it made and then use that to judge whether the film was a box office success or failure.

"This movie made $10m overall but we looked at how many wanted refunds and the movie actually only made $1m"
 
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I Wanna See How Skouras Got From Point A To B

Indie Distribution Vet Tom Skouras Joins Random Media as Chairman
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/indie-distribution-vet-tom-skouras-666095
For more than a decade, Skouras was president of Skouras Pictures, Inc., an indie film distribution company that handled the release of, among others, Joel and Ethan Coen’s first film, Blood Simple, Paul Schrader’s The Comfort of Strangers, Martin Donovan’s Apartment Zero and My Life as a Dog, directed by Lasse Hallstrom.

Prior to founding Skouras Pictures, Inc. in 1983, Skouras served as the president of Wescom Productions, a wholly owned subsidiary of the Chronicle Publishing Company (San Francisco Chronicle). From 1972 to 1994, he served as a member of the Board of Directors of De Anza Land Co., a Skouras family-owned chain of drive-in theaters in California, Arizona, Utah and Nevada.

Random Media was founded by former Paramount home entertainment chief Doctorow earlier in 2013. Its recent acquisitions include Sarah Spillane's Around the Block starring Christina Ricci, Paul Wright's For Those in Peril, the Polsky Brothers’ Motel Life starring Emile Hirsh and Dakota Fanning, and Sascha Hartmann's Guardian of the Highlands starring Sean Connery.​

Skouras Pictures [us] http://www.imdb.com/company/co0040220/?ref_=fn_al_co_1
Distributor - filmography
Swimmers (2005) ... Distributor (2006) (USA) (theatrical)
Cold Sweat (1994) ... Distributor
The Silver Brumby (1993) ... Distributor (1994) (USA)
Running Cool (1993) ... Distributor (1993) (USA) (all media)
Sweet Killing (1993) ... Distributor (USA) (dubbed)
Watch It (1993) ... Distributor (1993) (USA) (theatrical)
Joey Breaker (1993) ... Distributor
Original Intent (1992) (V) ... Distributor
I Don't Buy Kisses Anymore (1992) ... Distributor
Hunting (1991) ... Distributor (1992) (USA) (theatrical)
Highway 61 (1991) ... Distributor (1992) (USA) (theatrical)
Diving In (1990) ... Distributor
The End of Innocence (1990) ... Distributor (1990) (USA) (theatrical)
The Comfort of Strangers (1990) ... Distributor (1991) (USA)
Prisoners of the Sun (1990) ... Distributor (1991) (USA)
Thieves of Fortune (1990) ... Distributor (1990) (USA) (theatrical)
The Gumshoe Kid (1990) ... Distributor
Dealers (1989) ... Distributor
Heavy Petting (1989) ... Distributor (1989) (USA) (theatrical)
Ginger Ale Afternoon (1989) ... Distributor
Mutant on the Bounty (1989) ... Distributor (1989) (USA) (theatrical)
Homer and Eddie (1989) ... Distributor (1989) (USA) (theatrical)
The Jitters (1989) ... Distributor (1989) (USA) (theatrical)
Valentino Returns (1989) ... Distributor (1989) (USA)
To Die For (1988) ... Distributor
Apartment Zero (1988) ... Distributor (1989) (USA) (theatrical)
The Wizard of Loneliness (1988) ... Distributor (1988) (USA) (theatrical)
High Hopes (1988) ... Distributor (1989) (USA)
The Wash (1988) ... Distributor (1988) (USA) (theatrical)
Hawks (1988) ... Distributor (1989) (USA) (theatrical)
In a Shallow Grave (1988) ... Distributor
Vampire at Midnight (1988) ... Distributor (1988) (USA) (theatrical)
Shame (1988) ... Distributor (1988) (USA) (theatrical)
Dirty Laundry (1987) ... Distributor (1987) (Non-USA) (theatrical)
Living on Tokyo Time (1987) ... Distributor (1987) (USA) (theatrical)
Witness in the War Zone (1987) ... Distributor (1987) (USA) (theatrical)
"American Playhouse: Waiting for the Moon (#6.11)" (1987) ... Distributor (1987) (USA) (theatrical)
Rhosyn a Rhith (1987) ... Distributor (1987) (USA) (subtitled)
Dogs in Space (1986) ... Distributor (1987) (USA) (theatrical)
La mitad del cielo (1986) ... Distributor (1987) (USA) (theatrical), Distributor (1988) (USA) (subtitled)
Jackals (1986) ... Distributor (1986) (Non-USA) (theatrical)
The Gospel According to Vic (1986) ... Distributor (1986) (USA) (theatrical)
Belizaire the Cajun (1986) ... Distributor (1986) (USA) (theatrical)
On the Edge (1986) ... Distributor (1986) (USA) (theatrical)
A Zed & Two Noughts (1986) ... Distributor (1990) (USA)
X: The Unheard Music (1986) ... Distributor (1986) (USA) (theatrical)
Eat the Peach (1986) ... Distributor (1987) (USA)
Sloane (1986) ... Distributor (1985) (USA) (theatrical)
My Life as a Dog (1985) ... Distributor (1987) (USA) (theatrical) (subtitled)
The Good Father (1985) ... Distributor (1987) (USA) (theatrical)
Shadey (1985) ... Distributor (1987) (USA) (theatrical)
The Quiet Earth (1985) ... Distributor
Death Warmed Over (1984) ... Distributor (1985) (USA) (theatrical)
Blind Date (1984) ... Distributor (1984) (Non-USA) (theatrical)

Distributor, Production Company - filmography
A Boy Called Hate (1995) ... Production Company
Sleeping with Strangers (1994) ... Production Company
Dark Side of Genius (1994) ... Production Company
Jailbait (1993) (V) ... Production Company
Fatal Past (1993) ... Production Company
Hostage (1992) ... Production Company
Circuitry Man (1990) ... Production Company
In Too Deep (1990) ... Production Company
Beverly Hills Brats (1989) ... Production Company
The Dead Pit (1989) ... Production Company
The Laughing Dead (1989) ... Production Company
Night of the Demons (1988) ... Production Company
Destroyer (1988) ... Production Company
Vampire at Midnight (1988) ... Production Company
The Outing (1987) ... Production Company
The Survivalist (1987) ... Production Company
"American Playhouse: Waiting for the Moon (#6.11)" (1987) ... Production Company (as In Association with Skouras Pictures Presents)
Senior Week (1987) ... Production Company​

Been quite a while since he got his hands dirty producing anything.
Looks like he's taken the last few years off.
Honestly, almost two decades.
Hmm... I guess this is largely a figurehead position @ Random Media?
I gotta see what they're into, as well.

Random Media [us] http://www.imdb.com/company/co0456190/?ref_=fn_al_co_1
Distributor - filmography
Meth Head (2013) ... Distributor (2014) (USA) (video)​
Groan... this looks plum crazy for RM.

WhereTH are "Sarah Spillane's Around the Block starring Christina Ricci, Paul Wright's For Those in Peril, the Polsky Brothers’ Motel Life starring Emile Hirsh and Dakota Fanning, and Sascha Hartmann's Guardian of the Highlands starring Sean Connery" on that list?

Ugh...


I'll follow up on this later.
Got Secret Santa Stuff to do for now. ;)

931​
 
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Been looking around for places to self distribute a no budget first film destined to be immediately ripped off for torrent download.

Anyway, since hosting distributors put zero budget into actually promoting your/our films (why would they! :lol:), and we are responsible for all practical marketing and promotion - f#ckit! Just skip the hosting distributor and distribute it yourself!

This quest has largely lead me to createspace, a amazon.com subsidiary, where both rental and purchase downloads are available in addition to DVD sales.

Been doing a few days of investigating and other than the to-be-expected grievances of erroneous sales/royalty payments it seems a decent option.

However, a proper investigation includes alternatives, of which I found this link that seems useful.
http://www.premiumbeat.com/blog/breakdown-of-the-major-online-indie-film-distribution-platforms/

Links like the following are about as useful as ehow pages, AKA rubbish.
http://edictive.com/blog/selling-your-own-diy-dvds/

What useless cr@p.

1,571​
 
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I'll have more to say on createspace downloads at a later date. For DVD sales, IMO one is are better off selling DVDs (you produce) as a merchant on Amazon than createspace made DVDs. For one thing, you'll be the only one selling "official" copies of your DVD (you are your own distributor) and any merchant fraudently trying to pass off a screener or promotional copy (I've a couple hundred floating around out there) as used "official DVD" can get shut down by amazon.com. I've both new and "used" copies at Amazon (they're both new). I have a link for those who wish to buy via PayPal from the Paypal site and at times more orders come in via that simple link than from my Amazon store even though they are equally "promoted". I make more money at Amazon because I can tack on a higher "shipping charge" which covers the cost of the DVD, too! :)

Here's the Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0963781332

Paypal: https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/w...737ba21b0819827f0298a8d8382cff5df9729c4c3c2b2
 
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Just putting this here before I forget it:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/independent-film-distribution



In the meanwhile entertain yourselves with these two gems:
http://www.quadcinema4wall.com
TOTAL COST: U.S. $11,000. Remember: by receiving 100% of the box office income, this amount will be reduced. Also, (1) having a publicist, (2) encoding your film for the digital platforms, (3) marketing your DVDs to the retail chains, schools, and libraries, and (4) setting up a Google AdWords campaign would cost thousands of dollars on the open market. But it's all included in our program.​
Only $11k.

And at the other end of the spectrum:
http://www.fairviewproductions.com/services/

After a few minutes of digging around IMDB they not only aren't listed but none of the films they represent (often with just a couple dozen user ratings = one or two theater showings) claim to be associated with them.

:lol:
On the one hand you're guaranteed to be out half the cost of a decent car but they wash their hands of the outcome.
On the other hand, if selected to be on their bookshelf it appears that's about all that'll happen.
Ha!

2, 095​
 
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Can't really say.
It does look awfully fishy, tho.

When I ran a goog search for "independent film distribution" these were the two paid ads that popped up at the top of the screen before the regular search results.

I'd sensibly think if they were paying for advertising they'd want to whore all the attention they could muster - including imdb credits, which add a simple to achieve air of credibility.
I think of that as kinduva industry basic; maybe even before going into business.

Something here isn't kosher.

Who doesn't wanna get credit in this biz?
 
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Okay, here's the lowdown on Createspace/Amazon . . .

First, my film is finally available for instant view at Amazon.com -- it got listed last week: http://www.amazon.com/Lexie-Cannes-CourtneyODonnell/dp/B00KEYH3LQ

(The DVD has been out for over a year and a half at the same site: http://www.amazon.com/Lexie-Cannes-Courtney-ODonnell/dp/0963781332 )

The biggest hurdle that most of you will have with createspace (and elsewhere) is forking up the money to get a product identifying code number -- this can run into the mid-hundreds of dollars. Without a product number, your submission will be rejected.

In my case, I had a block of product numbers (ISBN) for my other business. So I used one and CreateSpace accepted it. My cost here was zero.

After the application was approved, I was given a createspace number and address to send a DVD to.

After many months, I'm told that the film meets Amazon's specs and passed muster with their no-porn/graphic violence rule. I'm told that it may be a few months for the film to become available on the Amazon.com site.

Many months go by and then I'm told my film was rejected because the soundtrack played a bit beyond the last image seen in the film. In other words, the sound must end before the last image seen on screen. I'm told to fix that and resubmit.

I resubmit and many more months go by before I get another message from createspace -- letterboxed images is a no-no. (I shot 4:3 and letterboxed to 16:9) I inquired why they didn't tell me this the first time around. They said the policy was recently changed, and no exceptions.

So I blow up the letterboxed 4:3 to fit 16:9 and sent that in. After many, many, months of hearing nothing from CreateSpace, I inquired what was up. Turns out it "fell out of queue" so they put it on top of the pile or whatever.

A month or so later they tell me the film meets specs and would be up in about 60 days. 6 weeks later it is actually up.

So, from beginning to end, a year and a half went by.

Amazon sets the rental price, so at $1.99 minus their commission, it's gonna be a long time before I can roll in hay. We'll see how it goes.

(As for the DVDs, it's not a CreateSpace item. While I sell many DVDs on Amazon, I replicate them locally and ship them myself.)
 
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GA,
So, half a year later what have been your experiences with distributing through CreateSpace?
Worth the hassle? Make a buck?

TIA!



And just outta sheer boredom I thought I'd snoop around a little in independent film distribution to see what was going on.
Still looks like there are no magic beans available. Nothing but work, work, work.

Big Biz:
http://variety.com/2014/film/featur...g-of-war-between-studios-theaters-1201144965/

"Look at me!" in lieu of money:
http://tribecafilm.com/stories/rack...e-independent-film-community-ian-clark-MMXIII
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2790232/?ref_=nm_flmg_cin_2

$750,000 Li'l Film:
http://filmmakermagazine.com/85395-...istribution-like-booking-a-band/#.VJHtz_ldV8E
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0438486/business?ref_=tt_dt_bus

Whom was looking for what at Sundance this year:
http://www.indiewire.com/article/distributors-guide-to-sundance-2014


4,350​
 
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rayw said:
GA,
So, half a year later what have been your experiences with distributing through CreateSpace?
Worth the hassle? Make a buck?
Click to expand...

Yes, worth the hassle. Clearly downloads outsell DVDs, so it's been a new source of revenue. Rolling in dough, no. But it does work -- put a link under everyone's nose to 'watch it now', some will bite.

Filmmakers have to remember that THEY have to put the link out there. Createspace isn't going to help you one iota with marketing.

I wish I knew the percentage of viewers who rent vs buy though. Createspace doen't break that down.
 
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