photographer transitioning to motion picture on limited budget; help?!

marko mijailovic

marko mijailovic

hi everyone,

first post here.

a little about me... i'm a 24 year old toronto-based fashion + portrait photographer who's looking to make the transition into motion picture. film is something i've always been very passionate about, but also equally intimidated by; i guess i still am to an extent.

the other day at one of my fashion shoots for a magazine i decided to shoot some video. the idea was to just create some supplementary footage for the still editorial. sure enough, i fell in love with it (shooting video) and the response has been terrific, encouraging me to invest myself more into the world of film.

you can see my first attempt here- again, keep in mind this was just shot as supplementary footage to a photo editorial so there's no storyline present (nsfw):

https://vimeo.com/86027274

before i go on, i guess i should mention what gear i currently have/am using: nikon d800, sigma 50mm f/1.4, nikon 28mm f/1.8, nikon 85mm f/1.8, and manfrotto 504hd + 546b (bought the other day).

i've got several ideas for films i'd like to create- i've been burning up with inspiration lately after almost a year off-, but don't really know where to start. that's where i was hoping you knowledgable lot could help me out.

i'm mainly looking to create short fashion films (sub-five minutes) with very little to no dialogue, so don't want to focus much on audio gear. what little dialogue there will be, i will record with my music recording gear (condenser mic-> interface-> logic) and dub over the visuals + music. my films will- 90% of the time- focus on visuals.

in terms of lighting, i'd prefer to stick to natural light as the costs of film lighting just plain scares me (and my sad wallet). i guess this kind of ties into my next bit... i'd like to stick to prime lenses only due to ability to shoot in lower light- that and i just don't like zooms much.

specifically, i was hoping you guys could help me decide on what pieces of gear to get next (read: which are most needed)... my very next purchase will most likely be a slider (thinking kessler or cinevate), but what after that?
do i need a matte box, follow focus, rod/rail system, external monitor, shoulder rig, etc. etc.?

before i started reading up much, i thought a shoulder rig was all i'd need, but then i searched up footage done with shoulder rigs (which is i guess the majority of footage) and i found it to be only slightly less jittery than hand holding the camera... so then i looked into steadi/glidecams, but the disadvantage there was inability to focus while moving... i love the effortless fluidity they provide in longer tracking shots, but i could only see myself using the with a very wide lens. is there any rig that will give me steadicam smoothness with shoulder rig control over focus?

in terms of lenses, what are some you'd recommend? i've heard good things about the zeiss line of lenses for nikon. a friend who works in film recommended the 1.4/55 otus, but that thing costs more than what i'm looking to spend on the entire rig!

back to audio for a bit... i do have one (documentary) project where i'll be interviewing people on the streets that'll require some clean and crisp audio. would something like a zoom h4 + lav mic do the trick or should i look elsewhere? would also like to be able to record environment/atmosphere sounds.

i'll leave it at that for now since i feel i've already gone on more than i should.

any guidance would be greatly appreciated!

marko m.
 
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The amount of research you've done (and are currently doing) is better than a lot of advice you'll get here. There are many types of filmmakers, and probably very few on this board are doing high fashion videos. The tools you need are specific to your line of work and the way you like to work.

Here are my general notes, however:

For the sound stuff, you get what you pay for. Buy the most expensive lav mic and recorder that suit your budget, but for documentary/interview stuff you can spend less than $1000 and be totally fine.

If you've seen a lot of shaky shoulder mount work, it's because the camera operators are unskilled. It takes practice to be able to move a camera smoothly no matter what rig you've got.

I agree with your decision to stick to natural lighting and prime lenses, but that's a personal preference. Many people on this board would rather die than not use lighting equipment.

For these things you listed: matte box, follow focus, rod/rail system, external monitor -- they are all toys that you don't necessarily need, but they are nice to have if you can afford them.

Just remember that the more you add to your rig, the heavier it will be, which is good to keep your camera stable, but going too heavy will hinder your ability to shoot for long periods of time when you're not on a tripod.
 
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I could not decide if this was for a porno, a fashion mag, or a brothel advert.

That is not good. It means that the shots do not tell us the story properly. Before you go further you need to understand that with film, it is the footage that tells the story, there is no writing underneath to clarify, there is no magazine cover that is within a defined genre. The footage must tell the entire story and this footage, was confusing as I had no idea what I was watching.

The first woman walking down the hall toward camera would suggest a model shoot, but the lady in the leggings sitting on the bed looked like a hooker that had no customers.

The empty chair shot also added to the feel of a brothel waiting for me to come and visit.

Please tell me the genre that this video is for and I will explain what I would have done to have sold that story.
 
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FantasyFilmProductions said:
I could not decide if this was for a porno, a fashion mag, or a brothel advert.

That is not good. It means that the shots do not tell us the story properly. Before you go further you need to understand that with film, it is the footage that tells the story, there is no writing underneath to clarify, there is no magazine cover that is within a defined genre. The footage must tell the entire story and this footage, was confusing as I had no idea what I was watching.

The first woman walking down the hall toward camera would suggest a model shoot, but the lady in the leggings sitting on the bed looked like a hooker that had no customers.

The empty chair shot also added to the feel of a brothel waiting for me to come and visit.

Please tell me the genre that this video is for and I will explain what I would have done to have sold that story.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you missed the bit where I clearly explained the footage was merely a series of supplementary shots to go with the actual photo editorial. This was first and foremost a photo editorial. A shoot at which I decided to shoot some video to accompany the stills. There was no story (as I- again- clearly mentioned). Just a series of images. Another thing I concisely addressed was the genre; it's fashion. Quite frankly, I'm not here for your advice on how to "sell" stories; I've come here to ask about gear. My biggest (internet) pet peeve is people who don't actually read anything yet feel qualified and entitled to answer.

P.S. Your bit where you say there is no writing underneath to clarify... If you were better versed in the world of (high) fashion you'd not be making that statement as the footage is clearly that- fashion. I don't know what kind of porn you're watching...
 
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moonshieldmedia said:
The amount of research you've done (and are currently doing) is better than a lot of advice you'll get here. There are many types of filmmakers, and probably very few on this board are doing high fashion videos. The tools you need are specific to your line of work and the way you like to work.

Here are my general notes, however:

For the sound stuff, you get what you pay for. Buy the most expensive lav mic and recorder that suit your budget, but for documentary/interview stuff you can spend less than $1000 and be totally fine.

If you've seen a lot of shaky shoulder mount work, it's because the camera operators are unskilled. It takes practice to be able to move a camera smoothly no matter what rig you've got.

I agree with your decision to stick to natural lighting and prime lenses, but that's a personal preference. Many people on this board would rather die than not use lighting equipment.

For these things you listed: matte box, follow focus, rod/rail system, external monitor -- they are all toys that you don't necessarily need, but they are nice to have if you can afford them.

Just remember that the more you add to your rig, the heavier it will be, which is good to keep your camera stable, but going too heavy will hinder your ability to shoot for long periods of time when you're not on a tripod.
Click to expand...

Thank you for this reply, much appreciated. What additions would you make that are more substantial and not just "toys"? More lenses? I'm very interested to hear! Thanks!
 
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well i dont know what to say really, everytime someone says gear gear gear but their videos arent all that, it makes you wonder what to say to them...

"and the response has been terrific, encouraging me to invest myself more into the world of film. "

lets face the facts, you had half naked women infront of the camera, of course they would love it, the video itself was boring, lacked attitude and had no real design to it.

you want to do fashion videos but i dont think you even know what constitutes a video.

every video must have a story, unless of course you literally are just filming a model with the clothes (or less) on as a catalogue shot?

If you arent going to do anything flavoursome with your shoots then dont bother getting more gear, what you have is fine.. your better off investing in lighting.
 
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Ok. calm down. I apologize ok. I did not mean to upset you or irritate your pet peeve in any way. I did read in full and saw that you intend to do more videos. For that reason I felt that perhaps some thoughts on how to better sell the story would be useful food for thought when producing future footage. Clearly you don't want that kind of advice and that is your choice, but you need to be aware that on this forum, we all love film, all kinds of film, and when we see a piece of footage on here we tend to go a little film happy and look at every aspect, not just answer the questions asked. We do this because sometimes the poster is unaware of certain aspects, and by all putting in different points it is common for the poster to see things that they had not considered. This is generally understood as being helpful.

And you are right, I humbly admit that I know next to nothing about fashion, let alone so called high end fashion. The only time I even think of clothing is when my partner (who runs her own clothing label) talks to me about Gucci, Prada, Valentino, D & G etc...and admittedly, she has only been looking at them longer then the 24 years that you have existed so she might be a little off.
 
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marko mijailovic said:
Thank you for this reply, much appreciated. What additions would you make that are more substantial and not just "toys"? More lenses? I'm very interested to hear! Thanks!
Click to expand...

Lenses are a good place to start, especially since you're using primes. You'll want options.

I'd be a little bit worried about shooting video on a Nikon. Personally, I'm not a fan of DSLRs for video, but at least with Canon you can use things like Magic Lantern or Cinestyle to maximize the image quality and remove some of the DSLR limitations. Do some research, maybe start here: http://nikonhacker.com/

One thing I just thought of is that with a shoulder mount, it's difficult to get lower angle shots, which could a problem in fashion. A cheap steady cam rig might be the best option for versatility in camera position.

does your tripod have a fluid head? that's important too.
 
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you had me at nsfw :lol:
but lost me about 2 minutes in due to boredom :(

Anyway IDK what I am really supposed to say. You're a photographer, obviously you white balanced and focus correctly.

But you weren't even trying to tell a story - so that leaves no room for me to give feedback. There is no story to give feedback on :)

If you're dealing with hot, half naked chicks, maybe try to do something like 'faster, pussycat! kill! kill!' or 'bitch slap' / something campy and sexploitation

Looking forward to your first attempt at a narrative.
My advice is to start very small. Under 2 minutes. Maybe 30 seconds. Then build from there.

p.s. you kinda look like orsen welles. Now if you can tell a story like him you're set!
 
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Welcome to IndieTalk!

A camera, a good lens or two, a three point lighting kit (you can make one by getting clamp lights and stands from a hardware store from Home Depot), a good mic, and a tripod are what you need.

The image looks fine throughout, but none of it interested me. It was just bland, and there appeared to be no tone you wished to convey. It was bleak, rigid, dull, and lifeless. I got bored by the video, skipped forward, and was disappointed by the lack of build-up or change it tone. It just was... boring.

Sorry dude. Instead of gear, right now focus on improving your skills "for it's not the camera but the man behind it"!
 
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I thought it was nicely shot. Nice lighting too.

Do a search on 'gear', 'lenses' etc using this Search facility.

Join lynda.com for a month and watch the whole of this excellent 20+hr DSLR film making course:

DSLR Video Tips with Richard Harrington and Robbie Carman
http://www.lynda.com/Final-Cut-Pro-...lr page:1 s:relevance sa:true producttypeid:2

It will teach you a great deal. Also goes into the gear you can buy - options, workflow etc.

I'm also a big fan of:

http://www.learningdslrvideo.com/

http://philipbloom.net/

And don't spend any money on gear until you do lots of research.

Your can spend huge $$$$$ of DSLR gear. Make sure you buy stuff that can generate $$ back.
.
 
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Shooting for video is, by definition, very different to shooting for photography. There are many times when the two overlap, but they are very different disciplines.

My thoughts? If you want to be shooting fashion films, invest in a camera that's better than a DSLR, and invest in some nice lights (Kinos are practically the go-to for a lot of fashion films).

What you posted is certainly better than what many first timers achieve, but when you're a photographer using a photo camera to take video, then I would be surprised if the footage wasn't better than many newbies. :D

I also tend to agree with what's been posted here in as much as the lack of story. I know fashion videos are less about a traditional story, but the better fashion videos I've seen have told or at least eluded to some sort of underlying premise, rather than just an amalgamation of nice shots of beautiful women.
Obviously, I understand that what you had shot was meant purely as an addition to the pictorial, but just as those awesome photoshoot sets that tell some kind of narrative are much more interesting and captivating than Terry Richardson's home shots of Miley Cyrus in the mirror, the same idea applies when it comes to video.

in terms of lighting, i'd prefer to stick to natural light as the costs of film lighting just plain scares me (and my sad wallet).
Click to expand...

The thing is, unless your willing to take a pay cut, your competitors are probably shooting on REDs with lighting gear. If someone asked me to shoot a fashion film, I would immediately suggest RED and a bunch of KinoFlos.

You perhaps have an advantage because you already know people, you already have the contacts who may get you work - but they're giving you photography work, and it's entirely likely they've already got someone more experienced and with better gear than you doing the video side of things.

You might consider offering yourself as a photo/video one man band - it's a lot of work, but you could undercut others (of course I would never condone under cutting anyone).

Natural light can be beautiful, but it requires a lot planning and a lot more time, at least if you're going for a specific look, rather than a 'natural light because I can't afford anything else' look.

specifically, i was hoping you guys could help me decide on what pieces of gear to get next (read: which are most needed)... my very next purchase will most likely be a slider (thinking kessler or cinevate), but what after that?
do i need a matte box, follow focus, rod/rail system, external monitor, shoulder rig, etc. etc.?

before i started reading up much, i thought a shoulder rig was all i'd need, but then i searched up footage done with shoulder rigs (which is i guess the majority of footage) and i found it to be only slightly less jittery than hand holding the camera... so then i looked into steadi/glidecams, but the disadvantage there was inability to focus while moving... i love the effortless fluidity they provide in longer tracking shots, but i could only see myself using the with a very wide lens. is there any rig that will give me steadicam smoothness with shoulder rig control over focus?
Click to expand...

Shoulder rigs are fine if you have the weight in the camera and the rig to be able to balance it properly. DSLRs are light, and are not really suited to traditional video handheld shooting. As well, as has been mentioned, handheld operating is really an art unto itself.

A steadicam is used much more regularly, but it's a lot more work to learn, and takes up a lot more time.

Follow focus is necessary if you're employing an AC, and matte box is great if you're using higher quality square filters, but I doubt that you are.

My suggestion would be stick one of the many sliders available. You can get them pretty cheap, and they add some decent movement to your shots without too much hassle, setup or learning curve.

Normally, I see fashion films populated with dollies and Steadicams.

in terms of lenses, what are some you'd recommend? i've heard good things about the zeiss line of lenses for nikon. a friend who works in film recommended the 1.4/55 otus, but that thing costs more than what i'm looking to spend on the entire rig!
Click to expand...
Sounds like you've kinda already got as many lenses as you need. There wouldnt be much else I would suggest, at least not at any sort of price you're going to be happy with ;)


Unless you're shooting in super low light conditions, I might actually be more comfortable suggesting a Blackmagic with some combination of lenses for fashion films. Your work is okay, but it would benefit from a better camera and some more deliberate lighting. Some of the 'natural' lighting that you'd be working with can be really nice. If what you've posted is the extent of what you want to do, then great. If you want to delve further, however, there's a lot more you need. Whereas many short films are happy to make sacrifices due to budget, I've found fashion generally has a lot of money, and will go for the best they can get for that money.

YMMV
 
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The only thing on my mind really is.. when did "fashion" become "fetish" ? The stuff those women are wearing looks more like bondage gear than clothing. I guess I'll never understand the "fashion" industry -- and I'm probably ok with that. :)
 
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:welcome:

For the record any members that troll or are rude to newbies will be immediately banned. You chase members away... you go away.

This is a place where we welcome members and help, or you can go back to YouTube.

IndiePaul said:
This was a newbie thread so let's all be kind folks.
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Thank you!
 
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IndiePaul said:
This was a newbie thread so let's all be kind folks.
Click to expand...

I was kind, I was gentle, and the guy came back peeved lol...doing that here is like putting blood into a pool of piranha, its just not a good idea before taking a dip. We should have a warning when you sign up that says something like


Warning
Anything posted on this site can lead to debates and disagreements.
Please put on your big boy pants before entering. if in doubt. don't post.



In fairness, as a newb, I think I have had bigger chunks torn out of myself at times, and at those times, a neat little trick is to sit back a minute and ask yourself "Could they be right?" This little nifty tip has worked for me a few times on this site, and those bigger chunks taken from me have healed to give you the fine specimen I am today.
 
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