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Old 02-15-2016, 12:33 AM   #31
SkyCopeland
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Originally Posted by JetMonkey View Post
I already "risked" 40K on a proof of concept in order for his fans to even see the potiential project. Not to mention the fact I've spent 4 years in development working to get it to this point including attaching the talent to it. Now you're saying all the talent has to do is SHOW it to the fans and automatically gets 80% of the profits if it gets made?
I didn't say that at all. All I did was respond to the information I was given. I do not know any information you don't provide me with.

I was provided the following information:

Actor's fans want to fund film.

Actor wants producer credit.

------------------------

If you spent 40,000$ you're certainly entitled to a gain for that risk. As I said "no risk - no reward", you took part in the risk and deserve a share of reward in that case.

However say the actor could get his fan base to raise over 160,000$, I'd once again say he has justified 80% of the reward. As his fans took 80% of the risk.

If he can only bring in 40,000$ then a 50/50 split is very justified.

If he can't bring up that much, than less is justified for him. When talking about money, less invested, less earned.

But he does have a fan base... which may be potential income after release... which is also nice, so give him some padding even if it does end up even split. Incentive for him to market it to his fans, ya know?
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Old 02-15-2016, 12:38 AM   #32
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Not trying to sound like an a$$, I appreciate your opinion. Just seems kinda lopsided cause its the fans who are putting in their $$$, the talent doesn't really risk anything.
Ah! You edited haha... Well legally if you're going the crowdfunding route you can't offer points to backers through websites like Kickstarter or IndieGoGo. However if he has fans he know have heavy pockets, he could bring them to a meeting with you and they can become actual Executive Producers.

It's a weird day we live in where a person has their fans pay for a product and then they make money from it. I'm not saying I agree with it, but it's how things are with crowdsourcing funding via fans.

Either way, without him, you don't have the fan base to do raise that kind of crowdfunding, making him a resource that's worth having.

-------

Oh! And the talent does actually risk something. His integrity with his fans. Say the project blows up, never finishes, or worse case his acting is horrible in it. He will end up with a lot of very pissed fans, ones that were originally so supportive of him that they gave up their hard earned cash to help make a project he believed in possible.
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Old 02-15-2016, 12:57 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by JetMonkey View Post
what is a fair percentage amount to give as additional producer?
in terms of fairness i think that depends entirely on how much money is fan base actually brings in. has this actor used crowd funding from their fan base in the past, something that could give you an estimate of what they will bring it?

or maybe you could look at their number of followers and try to correlate that with other actors who have crowd sourced, the success they had, and how many followers they posses.

id feel like a horses ass to give them a big share of the producers return if they only raised like $10,000

anyway it's not about risk for the actor, risk is a factor for business but not the primary one. With very few remarkable exceptions, in any business transition -cash is king-

Last edited by sfoster; 02-15-2016 at 01:17 AM.
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Old 02-15-2016, 01:20 AM   #34
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I already "risked" 40K on a proof of concept in order for his fans to even see the potiential project. Not to mention the fact I've spent 4 years in development working to get it to this point including attaching the talent to it. Now you're saying all the talent has to do is SHOW it to the fans and automatically gets 80% of the profits if it gets made?
I'm curious to why the development costs not part of the production budget?

...and yes, it can not only be a fair deal, it could be a great deal for you to accept. Do you have other options? If not, him taking 100% may still be a good deal for you. Is it ideal for you? No. Is it the best deal you'll get? Perhaps. Can you get a better deal? Perhaps.

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what is a fair percentage amount to give as additional producer?
Depends on what both sides agree upon with the information at hand. It's a negotiation. From reading this, more and more hidden information is likely to exist. It's impossible to gauge a qualified or even an unqualified opinion when information is being omitted.
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Old 02-15-2016, 10:19 AM   #35
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Guys, I really do appreciate all the responses. And yes, I'm doing my best to give you all the facts as discreately as I can. This talent's fan base does have the potiential to raise upward in the six figure area. The talent is part of a group that has already raised over a million to fund another project. So, even if 1/2 of that is raised for my film I'll be happy. As mentioned, I have already put in overf 40K for a proof of concept and that indeed will be included in the production costs. I also have 10% secured of a million dollar budget. I'm not a greedy person but I really do think after all the blood sweat and time I've devoted to this project. I don't see giving anything more than 50/50 as fair. It's my film and I will still retain all creative control (choice of dir. final editing decisions, sequel and liciencing rights, etc.) All this talent would like is to have some producing credit added to their name. I got no problem with that. i just want to know what is a fair amount of the producer's share to give if his fans do end up funding the majority of the budget.

Thanks again for all the replies!
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Old 02-15-2016, 10:29 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by JetMonkey View Post
I'm not a greedy person but I really do think after all the blood sweat and time I've devoted to this project.
I hear you, just keep in mind cash is king. not blood, sweat, or time.
You could hit up that entertainment lawyer you talked to last time.

I have great instincts and I'm pretty smart but I've yet to tackle a feature film or get investment.

40k is a hell of a lot for a proof of concept, made me interested to go back and see your other threads.

Is this the same project?
http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=30844
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Old 02-15-2016, 10:42 AM   #37
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Thanks.. oh yeah, this proof of concept/short is going to kick some butt! I'll put a link on here when it's ready.

I did get in contact with the entertainment lawyer. He's on vacation so he won't be able to give me a sound answer for a couple weeks.
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Old 02-15-2016, 10:50 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by JetMonkey View Post
Thanks.. oh yeah, this proof of concept/short is going to kick some butt! I'll put a link on here when it's ready.

I did get in contact with the entertainment lawyer. He's on vacation so he won't be able to give me a sound answer for a couple weeks.
Very cool, looking forward to seeing it.
How did it get the attention of this actor - winning awards or did they happen to see it at a festival?

I'm currently working on my ambitious short film but it's a long term project involving some crazy body transformation stuff i'm putting myself through. I just hope it doesn't suck

One last thing that occurs to me - You could look at the difference between angel investors and investors after a company already has a proven concept and profitability. Money goes further at the ground floor because it's seen as a higher risk.

Last edited by sfoster; 02-15-2016 at 10:53 AM.
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Old 02-15-2016, 10:58 AM   #39
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Have you gotten any input from the talent as to what percentage he's looking for?
That seems like it would be the starting point for negotiations.
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Old 02-15-2016, 12:05 PM   #40
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No I have not. I wanted to present something to the talent as maybe a starting point and then go from there... Hence, my dilemma.
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Old 02-15-2016, 02:11 PM   #41
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No I have not.
I'm definitely with mlesemann on this one! As a general rule, always get an idea of the expectations of the person you're negotiating with. The easiest way to do that is simply to ask them.

Going in blind, with just your own idea/expectations can work and sometimes of course there is no other option but there's a strong possibility that it will make the negotiation far more awkward or at worst, end the negotiation before it even really starts! It's therefore definitely worth avoiding if there is anyway it can be avoided.

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Old 02-15-2016, 05:39 PM   #42
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I really do think after all the blood sweat and time I've devoted to this project. I don't see giving anything more than 50/50 as fair. It's my film and I will still retain all creative control (choice of dir. final editing decisions, sequel and liciencing rights, etc.) All this talent would like is to have some producing credit added to their name. I got no problem with that. i just want to know what is a fair amount of the producer's share to give if his fans do end up funding the majority of the budget.
Perspective point of view:

What is your 40k investment and time worth if you don't get the funding and the project sits on a shelf for the rest of its life?

Does s/he need you or do you need them? Are they going to find another project without you? and vice versa?

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Have you gotten any input from the talent as to what percentage he's looking for? That seems like it would be the starting point for negotiations.
Quote:
No I have not. I wanted to present something to the talent as maybe a starting point and then go from there... Hence, my dilemma.
You're frigging kidding right? This has been going on since (before) July 2015 and you haven't asked the simple question, "So what were you thinking?"
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Old 02-15-2016, 06:11 PM   #43
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Definitely agree with others. Just ask. If it is something you think is unreasonable, you can negotiate or at least ask for time to think about it. There is even the possibility that he will ask for less than you are thinking.
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Old 02-15-2016, 10:06 PM   #44
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[QUOTE=Sweetie;409072]Perspective point of view:

What is your 40k investment and time worth if you don't get the funding and the project sits on a shelf for the rest of its life?

Does s/he need you or do you need them? Are they going to find another project without you? and vice versa?




You're frigging kidding right? This has been going on since (before) July 2015 and you haven't asked the simple question, "So what were you thinking?"[/QUOTE]

That's simply because up unitl now, the talent never asked to have producer credit.
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Old 02-15-2016, 10:45 PM   #45
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If you don't want to post answers to my question publicly i'd still love to know more in a PM. Hopefully I'll be in a position like yours in two years.
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