Can an independent producer make money from a theatrical release?

How important is theatrical to you?

  • I would rather have a theatrical release, even if I made less money

    Votes: 8 47.1%

  • I would pass on theatrical, if my total profit from the film would be higher

    Votes: 9 52.9%
  • Total voters
    17
I guess I don't see how one would really make all that much less money. Though I'll say that I'm not taking into account advertising/promotion/printing/etc costs.

But generally a theatrical release is followed by a video/dvd release, so there's still the potential for profit there, as well as TV/Cable/Satellite..

So, theatrical distribution costs aside, is not the greatest profit potential available by utilizing as many possible revenue streams as are available?

But then, as I've not made a for profit film, perhaps I'm not the best one to sound off on this issue... However, I certainly enjoy seeing the product of my hard work on a big screen in front of a sold out paying audience.
 
I would pursue a longer term outlook on the profitability as myself as a filmmaker by getting myself in front of a wider audience and getting some name recognition. That could help down the line getting bigger projects made. Of course, money is good, but longer term money is better so long as I make enough money now to get by.
 
I would pass on the theatrical release for more business. As long as a lot of people saw the film and could still converse about it, cool and the gang.
 
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knightly said:
I would pursue a longer term outlook on the profitability as myself as a filmmaker by getting myself in front of a wider audience and getting some name recognition. That could help down the line getting bigger projects made. Of course, money is good, but longer term money is better so long as I make enough money now to get by.
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I agree. If your film is lucky enough to make it to this point, the name recognition is a good thing to have in terms of getting the next project made. And if the film does well or gets a 'cult' following, word of mouth isn't a bad thing either when starting out. Indie film viewers are pretty saavy and talk up films they love even if very few people have seen them....

--spinner :cool:
 
It all depends on the effectiveness of the project, I think the independent producer should also look some other revenue streams to find a way to get some profits back from their project. :)
 
I've seen so many indie film makers in the UK wipe out all the profits they made from DVD sales and TV, simply by getting hooked into a theatrical release.

What any producer needs to take into account is what kind of release they're being offered.

Generally distributors talk about releases in terms of the number of prints which will be required. Remember, the cost of the print is coming out of your pocket, not thier's.

In the UK the cinema hire the print for a week for a fixed fee of about $500 and then they also pass on 25% of the takings at the box office.

What you need to consider is: "how many punters through door do you have to achieve in order to cover the cost of the print?"

A lot of this calculation is based on how much publicity you think you might generate. On a low print release the distributors don't risk too much money on publicity.

The thing is 35mm print costs are so huge, it becomes almost impossible to make back the costs from the cinema release and therefore the costs come out of the DVD sales/TV sales.

Unless the distributor feels confident enough to do a multiplex release, with huge marketing to back it up, 90% of the time an indie is going to do better building an audience on TV and through DVD sales. You can always go back to a cinema release if the film goes cult.
 
Driving past the local Theater and seeing your movie up in lights would be amazing!

But that's the glamor side of the biz, which often times looses money.

I would be thrilled with a straight to DVD release, but how do you effectively market it?

It's a "catch - 22." It seems you need the well known critics to review your movie in order to get the press talking and some real buzz going. But it has to hit the big theaters before they'll review it. Or you can launch an internet marketing campaign, but the competition for eyes on the net is overwhelming.

So the question remains: how do you market your movie?
 
I'd rather have the theatrical release for the following reasons:

  • Your film title on the marquee against the cold glow of florescent lighting (Don't forget to take a picture)
  • You can say you had a genuine theatrical run (This may get you future work)
  • The PRIDE of accomplishing something few in the indie world have ever accomplished
At this point, if I had a film that made it to a theatrical run, I wouldn't give a care if my first film didn't make me a buck. Look what I accomplished!

Luckily, I'm still writing. Maybe someday... :)


Elwood: It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.
Jake: Hit it.
 
So the question remains: how do you market your movie?
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This is THE big question.

I've been looking at exactly this for about ten years now and I've come to a couple of conclusions, which I've been exploring for a while now on my blog $1000 Film

I think indie film makers face many of the same problems the studios do -- sounds a bit weird, because the studios have all those advantages: big names stars, huge budgets, control of cinema distribution and also money to throw at advertising.

Yet, despite this they still manage to churn out hundreds of films every year that die on their asses at the box office.

Ask anyone who works in marketing what the most important aspect of marketing is and they'll tell you "Get the product right." And, by that, they mean create a product that has obvious appeal to the target audience.

It's exactly the same with films -- even when the studios have all those advantages, if they get the product wrong then audiences don't go to see the films.

My theory is that for an indie to successfully market a film, they have to create an idea so strong, that when a member of their target audience hears about it, they'll automatically want to tell all their friends about how cool it is. That ALL film marketing is "word of mouth."

This is the reason that although I've had the resources to make a second feature film for about two years now, I haven't gone into production. The truth is, I'm still working on ideas. I'm not going to make another film until I've got an idea I'm sure about and a script that is outstanding.

Once you have those elements, then there are lots of free advertising techniques you can use to build an audience for your film -- a combination of online communities, Youtube, Myspace, Facebook and more traditional press releases.

As indies we do have advantages -- everyone loves a story of people who produce something spectacular against almost overwhelming odds.

I think where many of us (myself included) fail, is when we assume we can forget thinking about the marketing of the film until after we've made it.

My experience is, that a filmmaker who doesn't understand that the film itself is the most important part of the marketing equation is almost bound to fail.

The other part of film marketing is understand exactly who the customers are.

The truth is we're selling to distributors, not directly to the public (unless we decide to self distribute). This means we've got a potential customer base of a couple of hundred people worldwide.

One of the most valuable things a film maker can do is take every opportunity to mix with those people and figure out what it is that they are looking for.
 
clive said:
Ask anyone who works in marketing what the most important aspect of marketing is and they'll tell you "Get the product right." And, by that, they mean create a product that has obvious appeal to the target audience.
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Exactly! I'm trying to work with the target audience in mind. I know that I can't be just a writer\director. I have to become a marketer, a distribution house, and on and on and on.

So let's say you have "the right script." And your small cast of unknowns rose to the occasion, acted above their heads and your small, clever crew actually got it all on HD with excellent sound and decent lighting. Now you have a "a good movie" on your hands. So now what?

We've all heard about the great little films that were festival darlings, but nobody picked them up.

And we've all heard about the new "internet campaigns" that paid off, somewhat. Is that it for now? Cause that's not good enough.

Surely there is something better looming in the way of "self distribution?" I ask this because I don't want to make a movie just for the sake of making one. I want it to do well. Financially. I mean, I would be happy with numbers that are considered "box office flops." But I don't think the pipeline is in place yet for small movies to do well.

So there's NETFLIX, the new friend to micro budgets. But even NETFLIX says "we prefer to deal with distribution companies, not individuals.

SO WHY should we give a huge chunk of our hard work to a distribution house, just because they have the proper forms and phone numbers?

This is what's keeping me from making a movie right now.

(Sorry Stever, I'm getting off your topic. My answer to your question is "yes." Brothers McMullen did, and they shot that for about thirty grand on 16mm. The gods must've been smiling down on them)
 
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Well, also from marketing point of view the movie should have some USP to highlight how the film is different to attract large targeted audience and should not open for release during the period when you're guessing that another film is going to attract the same audience. :rolleyes:
 
Just because we're independent film makers, it doesn't mean we have to do independent distribution.

Distributors and sales agents already have all the connections and an understanding of the market. Personally I don't have any idea at all about how to sell my film to Japanese TV companies or how to set up a DVD deal in New Zealand. What I do know is that independent film makers self distributing tend to think in terms of the home market, even though many films make more money in international sales.

So, when I'm thinking about distribution, what I'm thinking about is who is going to take the film and have their company represent it at the world's film markets. In almost every situation I can imagine I'd rather have a good sales agent taking my film to Mipcom, than a two reel theatrical distribution.

I think where we can help with the marketing most is by making the job easy for those guys. Give them a product that's going to be easy for them to sell.

The trick is to know who is going to be interested in your film -- which in my opinion means getting into the major selling festivals to actually talk to people (it's basic market research) and also investing in the industry creative directory Hollywood Directory -- it's the distributor directory I'm interested in as a producer.

However, despite all this, I still think that an unknown film maker with an unknown cast needs to think about building a buzz for their film -- think about it, if your film website is getting 5000 hits a day that's an additional reason for distributors to take on your film -- but, you can achieve the same thing by getting noticed at Cannes, Berlin, Toronto and Sundance.

What we can't expect, is to make a bad film, with an unknown cast, without the right package of deliverables, based on a lame and complicated idea, shot badly on a dodgy format with a completely unlicensed soundtrack and absolutely no audience interest -- and then still expect someone to pick it up.

However, saying that, I've a very dear friend who managed to do exactly that -- so, what the heck do I know! LOL
 
I agree on that, in my opinion in addition there is need to study what make a movie successful at box office or at least what make it favorable for a festival. Marketing is 15 mile broad and one mile in depth so for such subject an independent producer should find a way to reach a vertical market close to their audience those need to consume specific subject, it's always good to make a film with the taste and interest of targeted audience rather than individual's interest, as most of the art film lack the general interest and a sort of cinematic creations. :rolleyes:
 
clive said:
Distributors and sales agents already have all the connections and an understanding of the market. Personally I don't have any idea at all about how to sell my film to Japanese TV companies or how to set up a DVD deal in New Zealand. What I do know is that independent film makers self distributing tend to think in terms of the home market, even though many films make more money in international sales.
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I don't know about the UK, but I believe most american distribution companies handle "domestic" or "international," not both.

So sure, my Japanese is a little rusty. But are negotiations with netflix so complex that I have to have a domestic distribution company to sort it all out?
 
I don't know about the UK, but I believe most american distribution companies handle "domestic" or "international," not both.
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It is different for UK film makers. An American film maker has a HUGE home market, so distributors can afford to work exclusively within the USA market.

For a UK Film maker the home market isn't big enough to sustain even a moderately budgeted film (A fact far too many UK film makers neglect when planning their productions), so the vast majority of sales are generated in the international market. UK sales agents, therefore are much keener on the international markets.

However, I think a lot of US film makers don't even consider international sales, because their home market is so big. Which is odd because a huge chunk of Hollywood's revenue IS generated through international sales.
 
In my view the independent British filmmakers should try to cross the boarder with good theme like for example they can dub the movie in Spanish for home video market to capture a large portion of European market and likewise.
 
Great Clive answers!

One friend made a film, bypassed theatrical for DVD... and has managed to screw everything up by doing *zero* marketing.

Another did the same thing, but with great marketing - all of it free (or cheap). He came up with a press package comeplete with a "canned" interview for print and TV and sent them out to everyone. He sent letters to every film fest he could find saying he would bring his cast or crew to be on panels. He made post cards and sent them to everyone. He also focused on his target audience - and any event where that audience might be - he has post cards there (or was doing some panel). Plus all of the internet stuff. Basically, he spent a lot of time (but not much money) on promoting his film... and it got picked up by a major distrib in the USA and *they* gave it a limited theatrical (one week - mostly for reviews). And there was an audience *hungry* for the film.

I think once your film gets picked up by a distrib, you may still need to market it (if they don't). You care more about your film than anyone else ever will.

- Bill
 
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