What's your short film budget?

I just received my budget for the short film I've written, and it came out to about $78,000 for a three day shoot.

Obviously the budget depends on many factors and varies from project to project, but is it usually in this type of range for a ten page script?

I was thinking it'd be under $20,000, but I guess if everything is done by the book those permits and incidentals add up.
 
I've done *some* research on grant organizations, but I haven't found a specific organization that caters to comedy short films. Most of the organizations that I've discovered require a humanitarian message, something my pirate comedy film doesn't exactly have. (I'm sure the English major in me could forge something together, though, if I'm desperate :cool:).

A lot of the grants I've been reading about have specific requirements that my project might not fulfill, such as age-requirements or non-student status, and a good number of them are only for features.

Definitely will ramp up the research and application process.

In the back of my mind I keep thinking that securing a producer would be the move to handle--or at least assist with-- the financing, things like a casting director, etc. I know I have the chops to direct a killer flick but I'm new to the world of producing. Just a thought. Not sure how to go about this though, especially without funding so far.

I really do appreciate all the help that's been offered up in terms of responses. This forum is such an incredible resource.
 
In the back of my mind I keep thinking that securing a producer would be the move to handle--or at least assist with-- the financing,

I'm not sure I understand why it's at the back of your mind, rather than at the front? It is essentially the producer's role to: Identify the product's requirements, identify the resources needed to meet those requirements, provide the director with those resources and then oversee the filmmaking process to ensure requirements are met. The problem here is that as there's virtually no way to financially profit from shorts, they aren't really a product in the traditional sense and therefore good experienced producers, the ones most likely to be able to acquire decent funding/resources, are generally more apathetic towards shorts. However, as there are other forms of "profit" (besides purely financial), attracting a good producer is not completely out of the question. You will need a truly exceptional "killer" script/idea though. ...

I know I have the chops to direct a killer flick

Define "killer", killer relative to what?

One of the alternative forms of "profit" for shorts is in terms of publicity/advertising for the filmmakers' abilities and this is one of, if not THE main reason why shorts with budgets in the 5 to 6 figure range are made. Obviously though, to be effective publicity, publicity which is actually worth 5 or 6 figures, we're talking about making films for the higher tier film festivals, probably at least The Academy accredited ones, if not the very top tier. In my experience, most of the higher budget shorts are made by filmmakers who already have considerable professional experience in a closely related field, such as TV or commercials/advertising. Although it's not uncommon to find particularly promising students/graduates making significant budget shorts.

This brings me back to my question, it's entirely plausible that with a significant budget you have the chops to direct a "killer" flick relative to the vast majority of amateur no/nano budget filmmakers and possibly even relative to some of those who somehow manage to acquire a decent budget without so much experience or identified potential. However, to stand a chance of your short making a return on $50k or so of investment (in terms of say publicity), do you have the chops to direct a flick which is "killer" relative to say the high tier festival level? Do you even know the expectations/requirements of the high tier festivals, in terms of aesthetics, production values and technical requirements? It's possible, although highly improbable, that you do currently have "the chops" but these are questions only you can answer and you HAVE to answer them OBJECTIVELY! If your answer is "no", then your best course of action is probably to spend your time/efforts improving your "chops" rather than waste it trying to raise funds for a film you're not yet capable of making. The worst case scenario would be to NOT answers those questions objectively, as you'll not only waste time which could have been spent more productively but you'll also have wasted $50k or so on short which is essentially worthless!

G
 
When I was doing special effects (specifically pyro) I worked on several USC
and AFI student films. Most of those were in the 10 to 20 minute range and
most has budgets above $50,000. I worked on one USC short film (14min)
that had a budget of $120,000. I still go see the senior films every year. I
see shorts regularly that have budget above $75,000.

My eyes are actually watering reading this. This budget is more than... anything.

One of my shorts was playing in the London Independent Film Festival and I was talking to another director who managed to get his in as well. The price for my entire short was less than his location hire budget for one hour.

Just to get back on topic, my budgets tend to be around £500 although I will push up to $3,000 USD for a 'fantastic' short.

$120k USD - wow. Just wow!
 
I'm not sure I understand why it's at the back of your mind, rather than at the front?

It's at the back of my mind because I don't know how to go about finding a producer without the funding already in place. Is the producer's cut a certain percentage of the budget? Do I look at places such as mandy, backstage, or this forum's marketplace for interest? Should my efforts be focused on finding a good producer first or raising the money? Admittedly, I don't know much about the production end of things. That's why I'm posting here in the first place.

Define "killer", killer relative to what?

...

Do you even know the expectations/requirements of the high tier festivals, in terms of aesthetics, production values and technical requirements?

At HollyShorts this past August there were films starring actors like Jerry Stiller, Thomas Lennon, Raymond Cruz, and more. And obviously amazing productions without name stars as well. IndieWire's called it "The Cannes of Short Film Festivals."
(http://blogs.indiewire.com/sydneyle...e-evolution-of-the-short-film-market-20150604)

So, yeah. I have a good sense of what the requirements of the high-tier festivals are.

Back to the topic of budget,
In a Q&A, one of the directors said that he self-financed and that he's now broke. Hopefully I don't end up like that!
 
Last edited:
It's at the back of my mind because I don't know how to go about finding a producer without the funding already in place. Is the producer's cut a certain percentage of the budget?

As I said previously, getting funding is the producer's role. Normally one acquires a good producer with a combination of a "killer" script and networking. There is no absolute rule of what the producer gets. Commonly it would be a percentage of the budget plus "points" (a percentage of the net profits) but as there almost certainly won't be any net profits then it will need a bespoke arrangement, which is usually the case anyway.

So, yeah. I have a good sense of what the requirements of the high-tier festivals are.

Hmm, that sounds exactly like a subjective (and very vague) answer rather than an objective one! It's not me who you need to convince with your answers though, it's firstly yourself, which it sounds like you've already achieved and then good experienced producer, cast and crew.

Back to the topic of budget ...

We don't have to get back to the topic of budget because we never left it! Meeting the aesthetic and technical requirements of high tier festivals directly affects the budget and even more so for a short which aims to be "killer" compared to the average high tier festival short. What do you think filmmakers spend these significant budgets on?

In a Q&A, one of the directors said that he self-financed and that he's now broke. Hopefully I don't end up like that!

Being broke for a while isn't the end of the world, provided that making yourself broke is worth it in terms of opening up future opportunities. The worst case scenario is spending all your money AND not drastically improving your chances/opportunities. Personally, I'd want to do everything in my power to avoid that worst case scenario, rather than relying purely on luck and "hope" but maybe that's just me.

G
 
So I might put this project on hold for now. While I've directed a few no-budget shorts before, someone gave me some great advice for one of my first serious projects: it would be best not to have to worry about special effects, stunt coordination, costumes, etc. So I'll write something a bit more manageable in the meantime.

Thanks for the insight, though, people!

Edit: The person who gave me the advice said that the budget would be around $10-12K. Definitely not almost eighty grand :lol:
 
Last edited:
Best of luck to you, sir! I watched some of the short clips you've posted in other threads regarding the production process-- or I guess pre-production process.

Looking forward to seeing the final product!
 
My latest short film cost about $12 thousand in all. Half of that was buying a new camera, rig, and other equipment and software, but it's all stuff I'll still be using for quite a few years.

My short film is exactly 10 minutes, and involves all the bells and whistles most people try to avoid for their first serious short. But I knew that I could make it all happen because I knew how to do it. So I took a leap of faith, and not only shot it almost all on green-screen, but I had strong costumes, a great cast, I'm putting together my own visual effects that so far look better than I could have hoped for, and I've got an original soundtrack that's half midi and half live instruments that is almost complete.

All in all, it's taken a year to get where I am, and it'll still be a few months before it's finished. But I could not be happier.
 
These types of short film budgets blow my mind. Seems like such a waste because I could make a beautiful feature film for $20,000+.

Nobody makes their money back on a short film. Short films (in my opinion) are for fun or for showcasing talent, and you can showcase your talent just fine on a $1000 short.
 
These types of short film budgets blow my mind. Seems like such a waste because I could make a beautiful feature film for $20,000+.

Nobody makes their money back on a short film. Short films (in my opinion) are for fun or for showcasing talent, and you can showcase your talent just fine on a $1000 short.

best comment on indietalk for a while... :clap:
 
Short films (in my opinion) are for fun or for showcasing talent, and you can showcase your talent just fine on a $1000 short.

That entirely depends on the festival. At a festival which is really worth showcasing your talent, you'd need way more!

you could easily spend $1000 just on the audio post production if you're trying to show case your talent at a festival

Again, it depends on the festival. At a top tier festival, you'd not only "easily spend" $1,000 on audio post, you'd probably need several times that figure. Bare in mind that $1,000 won't even buy you half a day on one of the better theatrical mix stages!

G
 
I do agree that post audio can cost a ton, if you decide to splurge.

I essentially made a feature film for $6,000, and did all the post sound work myself and got into a decent festival that wanted to screen my film in a luxury movie theatre with a great sound system. I got worried at the last minute and ended up spending an extra $5,000 just to have a nice sound mix for that theatre. The film sounded ok after they remixed it, but definitely not $5000 better. I ended up releasing the film online and have regretted paying for that 5.1 mix ever since.

Now I'm making a short film that cost exactly $1,000 to make and I'm just finishing up the post sound, once again by myself, and I don't plan on hiring anyone unless I get into a top tier festival.
 
I do agree that post audio can cost a ton, if you decide to splurge.

... I got worried at the last minute and ended up spending an extra $5,000 just to have a nice sound mix for that theatre. The film sounded ok after they remixed it, but definitely not $5000 better. I ended up releasing the film online and have regretted paying for that 5.1 mix ever since.

This raises some interesting points: Firstly, your use of the word "splurge": Hollywood blockbusters can spend up to 8 figures on audio post and will usually spend around $1-2m on non tent-pole productions. Low budget commercial indie features will look to massively save money and reduce this amount by 5-10 times (say $100k-$500k). So, how far do you think reducing this figure by a further 10 times is going to get you and, can it really be described as "splurging"? $5k will either pay for an under-equipped amateur/aspiring pro or pay decently equipped pros for such a limited amount of time that their ability to produce good results is infeasible. The usual MINIMUM for final mixing is one (AB) reel per day, plus one day for mastering (physical recording). That's a minimum of 5 days for a 70min feature. The cheapest theatrical dub stages are about $2k per day and the best ones about 5 or so times higher.

Secondly, the effective minimum specification for a feature film includes a 5.1 sound mix. In other words, a film with a stereo mix is not technically a feature film, let alone a feature film which "showcases" your talent. For the no/nano budget amateur filmmaker, creating even a stereo mix which "showcases" one's talent is a tall order, doing it in 5.1 is near impossible.

Thirdly, the quality of a final mix of course largely depends on the quality of the materials being mixed. IE. The quality of: The production sound and the sound editorial and pre-mix phases. Poor/mediocre production sound, audio editorial completed in stereo and a poor or effectively non-existent pre-mix will each individually reduce the ability to create a decent 5.1 mix and in combination will of course dramatically reduce that ability.

Lastly, it is possible to end up with a decent feature film mix for considerably less than even the reduced 6 figure audio post sums of low budget commercial indies. But, it depends on the film and how it was shot and on finding particularly experienced and talented pros who can limit the dangers of not being fully equipped and who are relatively cheap: 1. Such people are the exception rather than the rule, 2. It's still going to cost somewhere between about 4 and 10 times what you paid, 3. It's a higher risk strategy and 4. Fulfilling the required conditions (of your film and how it was shot) is going to require considerable experience and planning on the part of the producer and director.

Now I'm making a short film that cost exactly $1,000 to make and I'm just finishing up the post sound, once again by myself, and I don't plan on hiring anyone unless I get into a top tier festival.

That's probably a wise strategy. However, it depends what you meant previously by "showcasing" one's talent. I'm using it to mean; demonstrating one's filmmaking ability to those who can directly affect one's progression beyond hobbyist filmmaking (IE. Commercial distributors, investors, agents, etc.), rather than JUST to other hobbyist filmmakers, which is effectively the case with lower tier film festivals.

G
 
Last edited:
Firstly, your use of the word "splurge":

What I meant by the word "splurge" is to say that as a low budget filmmaker you have two choices: do the sound yourself / find someone to do it for free, verses shelling out money to pay someone else (whatever that cost may be). If you decide to pay someone else to do your sound (and this may very well be the smarter option), you are splurging.


$5k will either pay for an under-equipped amateur/aspiring pro or pay decently equipped pros for such a limited amount of time that their ability to produce good results is infeasible.

In my case it was the 2nd one. The guy who mixed my feature won an Emmy for Modern Family, but for the amount I paid him and the amount of time he had, he could only do so much. Hence my regret for paying $5,000 when I could have mixed it myself since it was only a few theatre showings and the vast majority of views on my film have been online.


Secondly, the effective minimum specification for a feature film includes a 5.1 sound mix. In other words, a film with a stereo mix is not technically a feature film, let alone a feature film which "showcases" your talent.

I did mention my feature film, but this thread is about short film budgets and that's what I was talking about when I said "showcasing your talent." I think a filmmaker should at least possess the skills to do a simple stereo mix for a 15 minute short that doesn't sound like garbage. Chances are he/she learned how to use the camera, learned how to use the editing software, so why would they get lazy now with the sound? Put in the hours of practice and tinkering until you can get by, then you'll understand the process better when you hire someone on your bigger budget feature.
 
Hence my regret for paying $5,000 when I could have mixed it myself since it was only a few theatre showings and the vast majority of views on my film have been online.

This is an extremely important point, one which I have mentioned numerous times in many of my responses here on indietalk and one which is generally either scoffed at or more commonly just ignored! A fundamental responsibility of the Producer is to identify the type of product being made, provide the director with the resources to make that product and then of course ensure that is the product which is actually made. An online product is very different from a theatrical product, they are two different products, with different resource requirements. Most commonly, hobbyist filmmakers simply make a film and when they're finished, THEN try to figure out where to distribute it. Virtually without exception, they are limited to low tier festivals and self distribution because that is the product they have unwittingly made. Trying to turn their film into a different product after it's already been made, compromises the quality which could have been achieved. It's an extremely inefficient use of resources and therefore the exact opposite of the mantra of no/nano budget filmmaking: "doing the best you can with what you've got"!

In your example, the product you seemed to really want/need, was a self distributed online product. How much better (and/or more successful) of an online product could you have made with an $11k budget as opposed to the product you made for $6k? Or, would it have made more sense to put the $5k towards the next project? Presumably these questions are why you regret spending the extra $5k. The lesson from this, as I see it, is not to learn to become your own audio post team but a more fundamental lesson of learning to fulfil the responsibilities of the Producer, or of engaging someone who can.

The guy who mixed my feature won an Emmy for Modern Family, but for the amount I paid him and the amount of time he had, he could only do so much.

In context of what I've just said, this is a serious, multi-part failure by your film's Producer: 1. Failure to know the requirements for theatrical presentation, 2. Failure to identify the resources needed to achieve those requirements and 3. Failure to provide those resources to the director. In the case of #2 and 3, I'm not specifically talking about budget but about the resources the budget can procure. For example, it is possible (under extraordinary circumstances) that a producer could acquire the required audio post resources (personnel and facilities) for $5k but without extraordinary circumstances a figure many times higher than $5k would be realistic. The producer should have either budgeted the going/realistic rate or redefined the product being made. Not only should your producer have sorted this all out in pre-prod but s/he also missed the obvious red flags when they did eventually acquire audio post resources. For example, an Emmy is a TV award and TV is a different product again from a theatrical product (or a self-distributed online product). A producer should not only be aware of this but also be aware of the consequences. For example, the equipment/facilities required for a theatrical mix generally cost around 10-50 times more (to buy) than those required for TV. That's not to say that an Emmy Award winning audio post specialist can't produce a good theatrical mix but to do so requires identifying the issues which will limit their ability (theatrical experience, time and facilities), accounting for these issues and/or planning around them, none of which appear to have occurred in your example.

It's been a growing trend over the last decade or so for people to give themselves the title of what they would like to be, rather than of what they actually are. It seems to me that in the amateur world, the vast majority of those who call themselves a Producer don't even know what the responsibilities of a Producer are, let alone have the basic knowledge necessary to stand a chance of fulfilling those responsibilities. Obviously we've all got to start somewhere but IMHO, the role of producer is one of, if not, the most difficult to learn purely through the self-taught route. As demonstrated by intelligent and otherwise talented filmmakers making the same mistake time after time (by not being aware of or considering those responsibilities).

I think a filmmaker should at least possess the skills to do a simple stereo mix for a 15 minute short that doesn't sound like garbage. Chances are he/she learned how to use the camera, learned how to use the editing software, so why would they get lazy now with the sound?

Possibly. It's a considerable expenditure of time and effort to learn to create a basic, acceptable stereo mix. From a filmmaking perspective, this time and effort is in exchange for the option of a (zero cost) DIY mix suitable for low tier fests and/or self distribution type products. For filmmakers aspiring to make different products, say higher tier fests, more commercial or ultimately professional films, this time and effort is largely wasted.

The process/es of professional audio post are quite different to those employed by DIY filmmakers and therefore there's not much to be gained in terms of knowledge which will be useful further down the road, except possibly a few absolute basics.

If you decide to pay someone else to do your sound (and this may very well be the smarter option), you are splurging.

Agreed, but ONLY if you're talking about making a product for low tier fests/self distribution! In this thread we're talking about a different product and, not just a theatrical product but a theatrical short capable of showcasing one's theatrical product making skills. In this scenario, outsourcing the audio post is not "splurging" but a bare minimum starting point!

G
 
I just received my budget for the short film I've written, and it came out to about $78,000 for a three day shoot.

Obviously the budget depends on many factors and varies from project to project, but is it usually in this type of range for a ten page script?

I was thinking it'd be under $20,000, but I guess if everything is done by the book those permits and incidentals add up.

That is an insane amount of money for ten pages. I would cut a lot of fat.
 
Back
Top