How much to do these two scenes?

My scripts are ready, though they will of course be revised over time. As I write this, I am thinking of doing a few short scenes, to build up my experience, then put them together for a webisode or redo them for a proper webisode.

I think I have to speak to a producer.
 
When someone is making their very first film how can they possibly be
proficient in all aspects of the technical side? I don't understand how
that's as “incredibly ignorant” way to start path towards filmmaking.

Mogul wants to learn how to make a movie. He has never made one. He
needs to start somewhere. He doesn't want to be a DP, he doesn't want
to be a director, he doesn't want to be sound recordist, he doesn't want
to be a makeup artist. No need to learn what camera to use – find a DP
who is learning that. No need to learn what makeup to use – find a
makeup artist who is learning that. No need to learn how to record sound
– find an audio person who is learning that.

That's a terrific way to go about entering filmmaking for a producer.
I think I have to speak to a producer.
My offer stands.
 
Would I need an audio expert for a few shorts?

Having an expert in any of the filmmaking crafts would certainly not be a bad thing and would improve your overall knowledge of commercial filmmaking/the commercial filmmaking process. Whether or not you really "need" an audio expert for a few shorts is another matter. The answer to this question would depend on what you are trying to achieve with those shorts?

G
 
My offer stands.

Would you be willing to receive my scripts via email? And we should meet again.

The pilot is done, along with many other scenes.


Having an expert in any of the filmmaking crafts would certainly not be a bad thing and would improve your overall knowledge of commercial filmmaking/the commercial filmmaking process. Whether or not you really "need" an audio expert for a few shorts is another matter. The answer to this question would depend on what you are trying to achieve with those shorts?

I'm trying to get experience, APE. The plan as of now is to film a series of shorts, then use them to build a webisode or, morely likely, reshoot them so they would make proper webisodes. Then, if all goes well, I will graduate to making a series of low-budget sci-fi films which can be sold for money.

I'm in it for the long run - the very long run.
 
I'm trying to get experience, APE. The plan as of now is to film a series of shorts, then use them to build a webisode or, morely likely, reshoot them so they would make proper webisodes. Then, if all goes well, I will graduate to making a series of low-budget sci-fi films which can be sold for money.

That's a tough question to answer then!

On the one hand, working with an experienced, professional sound designer will get you to used to an approach to filmmaking, commercial filmmaking methodologies and workflows which are essential in commercial filmmaking and which you will not discover or appreciate from being an amateur filmmaker. Without this knowledge/experience your chances of making a commercially successful low-budget sci-fi film are greatly reduced.

On the other hand, the cost of an experienced, professional sound designer doesn't make sense from a purely commercial standpoint for a first time webisode filmmaker. The only possible exception to this I can think of, is if you also have experienced pros fulfilling the other department head roles and you have a particularly cunning (and realistic) plan to recoup the high cost of all these pros.

Presuming that you don't have a particularly cunning plan to recoup high costs, your decision is therefore essentially; do you have/want to spend the money (and not directly see again) on this aspect of your filmmaking education? That's only a question you can answer! Given the limited information about you, your financial situation, where you are now and how quickly you need to get to where you want to be; My best advice at this time would be to make your shorts on a very small budget (without an experienced audio pro) and then try to objectively evaluate from the experience; how much you enjoyed it, how much you really want to be a filmmaker and how much potential you feel you have to do the job successfully. Then, when you proceed to re-do the shorts you will be in a better position to decide between the two "hands" above and still give yourself the opportunity to gain some experience before embarking on the making of your actual sci-fi film/s.

G
 
My best advice at this time would be to make your shorts on a very small budget (without an experienced audio pro) and then try to objectively evaluate from the experience; how much you enjoyed it, how much you really want to be a filmmaker and how much potential you feel you have to do the job successfully.
This is excellent advice. It's been my advice to AM for several years now.

Put together a small crew for very little pay and shoot a simple scene. Learn
from that. Nothing wrong with learning by doing. If the scene isn't excellent
enough to be used in the future very little money has been spent and a lot
of experience has been earned.

Repeat.

You may not need to pay anyone at all. Offer a nice meal and give them some
creative freedom and you may find the people you need to make a couple of
simple scenes.

If an aspiring mogul wants to work with an experienced crew on a first scene
that may be an excellent option. Hire a small but experienced crew and allow
then to do what they know how to do. Watch, ask questions, learn. Nothing
wrong with learning by doing.
 
Hiring the experienced pro isn't the only option. I had a guy in SF we used for a couple shoots who was still a student, but also worked for a local recording studio and had a couple mixing credits on national commercial spots. He had a sound devices 702 and boom/mics, and would come out for a shoot for $150 when he was available - so it wasn't much more expensive to get him than it would have been just to rent the equipment, and he did a much better job as a boom op than someone without any experience would have. If you can find someone like that it gives you a nice position in-between the cost of a full-time pro vs the quality you're likely to get if you don't have someone on set specifically experienced with audio work.
 
Thanks for the input, everyone.


I just spoke to someone in the film industry, who suggested that, before I make the plunge and make a movie for serious amount of money, I should perhaps start with shorts, to build up my expertise.

Many have already suggested that, of course, so perhaps I should do it.

For the eating scene in the OP, we were discussing the following costs

1) Two actors
2) One DP
3) One ADP
4) One gaffer and key grip.

If they were to be paid, let's pay them $15 an hour. The entire cost would be, say two hours, and a catered meal would be no more than $60 all in. Assuming we can get a cheap locale, the total cost would be $250-$300 max.

Would that be a reasonable budget?


If so, then the cost of the other scene, again assuming two actors, one DP, one ADP and so on, would be the same, except we may have to rent some enclosed space to get that white effect.



Again, any thoughts?
 
It really depends. Are you wanting to hire a DP with a camera kit? Do you want the Gaffer and the Key Grip to bring their trucks? What gear do you have and what gear do you need?

I can't view the eating scene, as it must be disabled for other countries. Regardless, you'll likely struggle to get away with the coverage you want, the acting the way you want, and everything else just so in an hour or two.

Why not hire an up-and-coming DP who owns a cheaper camera (say an SLR or Blackmagic) and a couple lights? You could even hire a small lighting kit rather cheaply. Hire an assistant for them to help them set things up and that's your camera team. Get a soundie in and see how you go. Maybe find a student at a local make-up school who can do the actor's makeup for them.

Unless you're paying for their large trucks, or have a large collection of lighting and grip equipment yourself, it seems rather pointless to bring on a Gaffer and Key Grip. If you are wanting to hire their trucks, I'd probably add a 0 onto the end of your estimated cost there. However, I think you could get away without it. I'm sure you could shoot the scene for a few hundred dollars, I just don't think your current plan is the smartest allocation of money.
 
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Hiring the experienced pro isn't the only option. ...If you can find someone like that it gives you a nice position in-between the cost of a full-time pro vs the quality you're likely to get if you don't have someone on set specifically experienced with audio work.

IMHO, this is excellent advice for the more advanced/serious amateur filmmaker. Essentially, do the best you can with the budget you've got. In other words, make a film/short as close to professional standards as one can get by employing the best, most experienced amateurs/aspiring pros one can find to cover those areas where DIY is not practical. Progression from newbie amateur to skilled amateur is therefore mainly concerned with: Developing one's own DIY skills in that/those filmmaking areas of greatest interest, identifying those other filmmaking areas of greatest concern and finding people to fulfil those roles, develop scriptwriting and/or script adjustment abilities, develop planning techniques and workflows (often "on the hoof") which enables the very difficult task of actually completing a project AND, achieving all of this with the minimum number of unacceptable compromises, within a budget fixed before starting, typically 100-1000 times smaller than the budget of an equivalent professional/commercial project.

However(!), while some of these fundamentals of more accomplished amateur filmmaking maybe related or have some similarities with professional filmmaking others are not. In other words, improving one's amateur filmmaking abilities means years of study, practise and "trail and error" learning, a large proportion of which is of little or no use in professional filmmaking. In other words, if one aspires to professional filmmaking, some of those years spent becoming a skilled amateur have been wasted in the gaining of unnecessary knowledge/skills, while many of the essential knowledge/skills specific to professional filmmaking have been ignored, to the point of not even being aware of their existence!

Baring in mind the OP's username (and stated aims) and for the reasons I've just discussed, I don't believe that going for the "in-between position" or the basic philosophy of trying to make the best film one can (with effectively insufficient resources) is the best long term strategy.

Assuming we can get a cheap locale, the total cost would be $250-$300 max ... Would that be a reasonable budget?

A reasonable budget for what? What is it you are trying to achieve?! ... If you say "experience" then I'll just ask; "experience of what"? If you want to gain knowledge/experience which takes you towards professional goals, then you've got to start thinking professionally and develop a professional approach to achieving your goals! ... $250-$300 could be entirely "reasonable", so could $100, so could $20,000. ... It's like asking if $250-$300 is a reasonable budget for a computer; it's an entirely reasonable budget for a little laptop to browse the web and reply to a few emails but if you want to edit a 4K theatrical feature you're not going to get anything useful for $250-$300, you'd need to budget more than that just for hard drives! In fact, it's nonsensical to ask that question in the first place without providing a decent indication of what you wanted the computer for!

So again, what is it you want to achieve? For example, gain some basic experience of organising and managing a team of people? Or is it to experience professional workflows, the interaction between professional film crafts-people and managing them? Your budget would be entirely reasonable for the former but entirely unreasonable for the latter!

I have to say, the role of Producer is IMHO, the most difficult of all the filmmaking crafts to learn via the route of starting off as an amateur. This is because it's often arguably the least important individual role in amateur filmmaking and arguably the most important individual role in professional filmmaking! As a professional Producer you need to ask (and obviously answer) questions such as: What is this film for, for what market and for what platform? What resources are required to guarantee exceeding the minimum market expectations? What is the ratio between the cost of those required resources and the realistic gross returns? How can you affect that ratio enough and provide enough risk management to interest investors in providing the funds for those required resources? And of then of course, managing the project to ensure an end product which meets it's quality targets and achieves the projected investor returns. In many respects this is the complete reverse of amateur filmmaking, where the budget is set and then everything (resources, final quality, etc.) is essentially a lottery which revolves around that budget. IMHO, you need to apply this same basic professional approach even to your current situation! What, precisely, is the minimum you wish to achieve from making this scene/short? What resources are required to guarantee (at least) meeting those aims/targets. How much will those resources cost? Is the ratio of cost to benefit (meeting your target/s) worthwhile to you personally (as you are also the sole investor). How can you affect that ratio without significantly increasing the risk to the guarantee of meeting your target/s?

G
 
This white bg I shot some time ago in my living room.

cost<$50 including coffee and refreshments and snacks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89jI-oapxCs
 
@Aspiring Mogul: Some general advice

I'm with you when you say, you don't want to be an expert now on anything, that you'd rather hire experts. I'm just going to give you a few caveats.

Say you want to hire a director. We meet at some film party and I tell you I'm a director, and you say great, and you hire me. But you don't know me from Adam. I might be the worst director under the sun. Same goes for DPs, Sound/Boom people and every other technical area in filmmaking. Everybody says they're this or that. They might even have a great reel. Maybe I was shooting outside for 5 days, and I got 5 minutes worth of beautiful footage, and I post it up as my reel. But you don't know that, so now you think I'm a great DP. But do I know how to get 5 minutes of beautiful footage by planning for it. Can I get 5 minutes of great footage, once the location is paid for, for a limited amount of time, or am I going to waste the money you spent on rent?

These things you have to either get burned by people to learn, or you need to start working on other people's projects to find out how people work, and what they actually produce and then you can hire the people who know what they're doing. We're all amateurs, so very few experts, but some people have their minds screwed on right, and some are dreaming. It's important to identify those that can work with you. You don't have to be an expert on anything. You just have to have worked with the people you want to hire, to better know what you're getting into.

Good luck with everything
 
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Thanks, everyone. :)

My purpose is to gain experience as a producer, so as to learn how to manage the various skill sets. As for finding the right people, yes, that is a big issue, which I have come across time and again. And, as for working for other productions, that is also a real possibility, and I will be talking to some people about that - I have my skill set, and I can offer them my expertise, in return for them offering me experience.

Trueiindie, can you tell me how you did the white background? :)
 
Trueiindie, can you tell me how you did the white background? :)

White paper background. The background doesn't extend all the way, so you have to use masking techniques in after effects to achieve all white. I'll post a few screenshots on Friday, and you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.
Cheers :)
 
Thanks, Trueindie

I don't understand anything about the computer excluding the boundaries, but I presume the white background is a white sheet?

I'm wondering if using dry ice would also give a better effect, and, if so what the cost and safety concerns would be.
 
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