Edit to Score or Score to Edit

It's done both ways.

If a composer is scoring a film, he or she will write music that accentuates what the editor has cut. Rhythm and tempo are common to both film editing and music composition, so it's usually a natural fit.

Sometimes a director will choose a piece of existing music and ask the editor to use it as a reference track for the cut, then have the composer create a piece of original music that is similar to the reference track.

And then there are filmmakers who can afford to license existing music, cut their picture to go along with it and actually use the music in the movie. Thelma Schoonmaker does this occasionally for Scorsese.

Whatever works for you.

I am sure as 2001 said, it happens both ways. I have only had a film scored, not used existing music, so I had the composer score to the edit.

editing is done to music and scoring is done to picture.

Hmm so if I have an actual song I'd cut to the music. But otherwise I just make my edits at my own pace and let the digital orchestra match it up?

yes.

Usually a film is scored, meaning music is composed for it, which is done after the edit. Some films will have edits to exisitng soundtracks which would be done pre edit.

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Seems backwards to what I've always done. So how does the composer work? Does he have a little sheet or something that says 15 seconds in big crescendo, then 35 seconds in choppy editing, insert staccato here, that kind of thing? Or does someone actually watch the edit, play along with just the keyboard to figure out chord progressions then after a basic score is done it's composed for a full orchestra?

I haven't got into the music creation world (Reason, Logic etc) yet so the only way for me to operate has been to purchase a song and then edit to that. And it seems like that is what has given my edits good pacing and rhythm. So how would you edit a montage or a piece without dialogue without music? Do you pace out how many beats are in a minute and consider that where you're making your cuts?

I'm wondering all this because I've got some buddies who are becoming pretty good at making their own beats, songs, etc and I'd love to be able to collaborate with them but am not really sure of the work flow. Thanks for you advice!

Every dramatic work has its own rhythm and tempo. In film, that is set by the editor. A good editor is in many ways like a drummer, able to intuitively feel the rhythm of a scene and have a sense of the pace that is correct for it. If you need to play music while you edit in order to keep a particular rhythm in your head, there's nothing wrong with that...unless you're using that to create an artificial rhythm that is not correct for the scene (*cough*Michael Bay*cough*).

Hello! I'm new here, so forgive me.

If I may resurrect this thread for a few moments, I would like to point out an atypical, and very famous and fabled composer/director relationship, that of Sergei Eisenstein and Sergei Prokofiev. It was kind of a best of both worlds way. On Alexander Nevsky and Ivan the Terrible, Prokofiev started composing and recording music before Eisenstein was even finished filming, and didn't stop until final editing was completed. The two of them would be together for the entire editing process, discovering how best to marry the images with the music. Sometimes it involved Eisenstein cutting film to pre-existing recordings, and sometimes Prokofiev would be writing music to perfectly fit existing sequences. Eisenstein and Prokofiev's relationship is one that is envied by every composer I know (including myself), because of its give-and-take brand of equality and collaboration. It's so sad that so few directors and composers ever achieve this these days (although John Milius and Basil Poledouris had it...unfortunately, that partnership has come to an end).

These days, a composer is just a hired hand, usually brought in at the next-to-last minute to provide something that wasn't achieved by temping a bunch of pop songs. The average time for a composer to work on a film is six weeks. And then, it's not even a guarantee that one's work will make it into the film. Howard Shore worked on King Kong for a year, but was rejected absolutely last-minute (under mysterious circumstances...the details are being kept secret). James Newton Howard was brought in with about two weeks left until deadline, to compose and record over three hours of music. That it sounds as good as it does is a miracle of epic proportions. Trust me guys, doing it this way is a disaster. I feel confident in saying that most composers would prefer that they are involved in the film as early as possible/as time and schedule allows.

ericparnell said:

So how does the composer work? Does he have a little sheet or something that says 15 seconds in big crescendo, then 35 seconds in choppy editing, insert staccato here, that kind of thing?

Click to expand...

The composer doesn't have a little sheet. The composer has the actual video, with key frames marked for when particular beats need to be hit. At exactly THIS moment, we need a big hit. Then, we want quick, driving strings until at THAT moment, we need absolute silence. It's all done through MIDI sequencing. You might not know what MIDI sequencing is, but your composer should, and if he/she doesn't, you need a new composer.

Hey there, im new to this forum but i cant wait to get involved.

My brother and I recently produced a short film and went through the music creating stages. We used a guide track to edit to, simply because we find editing to music helps us with the pace and feel of the scene. It also meant that we could find music from feature films that we thought worked with our film and then ask the composers to produce something similar.

We gave the composers a "Cheat sheet" if you like, stating specific cues for certain key elements of the music that had to work with the visuals. They also had the guide track and visuals to work with so knew what we were looking for. Communication is the key really, just make sure you talk to people and let them know what you're looking for.

We have a blog/tutorial channel on youtube and this video is all about the music stages of our short film, it might help:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWhZjI3H0wA

Love you tuts. Thanks for sharing.

As a composer, I personally like to see something on the screen and write music accordingly. This is a guess, but I would assume most composers are not like that. Most composers like to have creative freedom and move the music according to what's good for the sound.

An example that is contrary to this is John William's Adventures on Earth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVpCqBgVrTg

Spielberg edited the ending of the movie around the music, which is a rare thing. Of course, it worked very well, imo.