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watch My First Short Film (Ballerina)- Please rate

For viewer convenience you can post it like this whitout the spaces in the code:

[ YT ] xUfqeKHTkFk [ /YT ]
 
I watched the first few minutes only now.
A few remarks for starters ;)

1) Congratulations with finishing your first short :)

2) The zooms are really irregular. It's distracting.
3) A few shots seem to be really shots to hide a cut: I can tell, because they don't add to the story. Like at 2:36 : the shot doesn't add anything, but another angle, while that angle proofs to be not important. You could have used a closeup instead.
4) Sometimes the framing seems a bit 'off', like when the girl walks on the street: you cut off the legs but left a lot of space above her head. Or at 4:27 all the space is on the left, the man is on the right looking to the right. (This could be on purpose, because it could have been an uneasy shot for the viewer on purpose, because the man left in the frame would have been more logical, but the fact that the camera starts moving without a real motivation (at least so it seems), I feel it wasn't on purpose).

This are just a few things I hope will help you a little bit.
5) At 4:36 you cross the axis between the 2 characters.
 
WalterB said:
I watched the first few minutes only now.
A few remarks for starters ;)

1) Congratulations with finishing your first short :)

2) The zooms are really irregular. It's distracting.
3) A few shots seem to be really shots to hide a cut: I can tell, because they don't add to the story. Like at 2:36 : the shot doesn't add anything, but another angle, while that angle proofs to be not important. You could have used a closeup instead.
4) Sometimes the framing seems a bit 'off', like when the girl walks on the street: you cut off the legs but left a lot of space above her head. Or at 4:27 all the space is on the left, the man is on the right looking to the right. (This could be on purpose, because it could have been an uneasy shot for the viewer on purpose, because the man left in the frame would have been more logical, but the fact that the camera starts moving without a real motivation (at least so it seems), I feel it wasn't on purpose).

This are just a few things I hope will help you a little bit.
5) At 4:36 you cross the axis between the 2 characters.
Click to expand...

thanks very much for the advice....in terms of the framing and some shots, I left that up to the cameraman, since, well that was his job...I did pick the shots I wanted for the entire film, but was told that I was better mixing it up abit, such as the side shot at 2min34....I've a lot of reading up to do with framing etc...point number 5, im guessing that's referring to the 180 rule...that bedroom scene, because there was a window behind it, the viewer would be able to tell that it wasn't the same room used at the start when the little girl was shot, so we had to be careful not to include it...but after reading your comments and watchin it again, a lot of the framing does look shaky and of key...thanks very much again
 
Congratulations on completing! As you asked for feedback, two points I would suggest working on:

- Too long.
- Cinematography: Needs a huge amount of work. Underexposed, grainy, colour keeps changing, annoying use of the zoom as well as basics such as focus. Take 4.09: It's yellow, out of focus, grainy and underexposed all at the same time. Immediately afterwards, the colour balance changes and there are a load of distracting zooms. This is way below festival standard and if you'd shot it on an iPhone, it would've given you a better result.

Just a few more examples (and I could go on forever):

Or 8:30 - yellow (why yellow?), soft focus, grainy.

Or 13:26: The camera op focused on the picture behind the subject and followed it up with distracting zooms. Again, you'd have done better to film it on a phone because at least the actor would've been in focus.

Or 15:20. Actor walks into the hallway and moves into an out-of-focus position followed by a grainy, colour changing shot.

Real basics of cinematography need to be adhered to as it's just annoying for the viewer. The DoP needs to learn or just use an iPhone because they'd get a better result.

Good luck with the next one. Maybe your DoP's learned from this as everyone has to be a beginner at some point. If the DoP hasn't learned then you need a new DoP.
 
Last edited:
gorillaonabike said:
Congratulations on completing! As you asked for feedback, two points I would suggest working on:

- Too long.
- Cinematography: Needs a huge amount of work. Underexposed, grainy, colour keeps changing, annoying use of the zoom as well as basics such as focus. Take 4.09: It's yellow, out of focus, grainy and underexposed all at the same time. Immediately afterwards, the colour balance changes and there are a load of distracting zooms. This is way below festival standard and if you'd shot it on an iPhone, it would've given you a better result.

Just a few more examples (and I could go on forever):

Or 8:30 - yellow (why yellow?), soft focus, grainy.

Or 13:26: The camera op focused on the picture behind the subject and followed it up with distracting zooms. Again, you'd have done better to film it on a phone because at least the actor would've been in focus.

Or 15:20. Actor walks into the hallway and moves into an out-of-focus position followed by a grainy, colour changing shot.

Real basics of cinematography need to be adhered to as it's just annoying for the viewer. The DoP needs to learn or just use an iPhone because they'd get a better result.

Good luck with the next one. Maybe your DoP's learned from this as everyone has to be a beginner at some point. If the DoP hasn't learned then you need a new DoP.
Click to expand...

Hi....thanks for the advice. Really appreciate it

TOO LONG = The only festival I want to submit the film too (local one), film has to be under 15minutes....intitiallly, it was, but after the DoP (who was also the Editor), decided to add extra bits in etc, it went over 16min mark, and as a result, it wasn't accepted, and I've since fallen out with the DoP / Editor...I've cut one scene, which has brought it too 15min...but with the right Editor, I'm sure I could condense it even more

8.30 = It was a no budget production and we only had the house for a short time...some of the day shots were done at night and vice versa, so light was an big issue throughout

13.26 = We kept the picture on the wall in, as its the same as the one in first café scene, and we generally like it, but the camera work is very shaky

In terms of story telling / and everything else expect the camera work, would you say its showing promise
 
Yes, it shows promise.

First thing on your next one needs to be audio. This is always the last
thing of a first timers mind and it's very, very important. Your audio
mix is terrible. On your other thread you should be asking about audio
– not camera work.

Despite all your excuses the shots aren't bad. Don't use the zoom – and
you use it in your first shot. Just because you have an exposed image
doesn't mean it's well lit. Sometimes the “natural” light works, most of
the time it doesn't. So on your next one use lights. Overall your shot
choices are quite good.

Your use of music is distracting. Too “on the nose” - meaning you use
those cliché stings only to make us jump. Since you chose not to use
underscoring those stings are just annoying.

I understand no budget filmmaking - all of us here do. So your reasons
for poor lighting, soft focus and placing blame on the cameraman doesn't
really work. This is your first short. Don't offer excuses and don't place
blame. Learn and get better. This is a fine first short.
 
Interesting film (sorry, it's my brother who's the horror buff)!

I'm an audio, not a video person so I'll speak to what I know.

The foley/effects at the beginning seem very over-pronounced to me -- and then they become very inconsistent afterwards. The dad especially is noticeably missing any footsteps when he walks through the kitchen and up the stairs. It takes a lot of work to balance everything and keep dialog clear and the audio levels were all over the place-- were you running the on-camera mic? I'd suggest really watching the meters on your recorder and getting the levels right before each take -- it makes editing and mixing much easier.

As directorik said, the non-diegetic "stings" were forced and are far too loud compared to the scenes they occurred in. I jumped -- less from the fright and more from the sudden loudness (and need to turn down my monitors), which is a shame because it distracted me from the wonderful work that your make-up artist did.

The biggest thing that distracted me was the lack of consistency in production values -- some things were done with a lot of care, and then suddenly forgotten about. I'll also agree that lighting is a bigger problem than the actual camera work. Like audio, it seems like lighting is one of those "black magic" areas of filmmaking that gets forgotten about, and tends to seemingly take time away from the "important" things like acting and camerawork; but they can really make-or-break your film in a hurry if you don't take the time to get them right.

All that being said, I liked the idea and the narrative. The "scares" weren't too overstated and things moved forward at a reasonable pace (IMO). I also felt that the ending was actually satisfying, which horror films seem to struggle with (usually either going into bland vagueness, or suddenly turning into an action sequence race-to-the-end). I'm looking forward to more!

As far as the DoP and camerawork go: as a director, take ownership of your team and your vision and lead. Don't go hands-off on something and then complain about the result. If something is going wrong -- you are the last line to get it back on track, and it is ultimately your vision that the rest of your crew are working toward. Be responsible for the realisation of that vision. Be engaged with your crew -- respect their knowledge and experience, but also insist that everything come together. If the sound isn't getting recorded the right way, fix it; if the lighting is wrong, change it; if the camera shots aren't working with the intended feel and flow, do something different: but it is up to you to be aware of what your crew is doing and help and enable them do it to their best. It's YOUR short, don't be afraid to own it.

If you need help with audio, let me know -- I don't get to play with film enough where I am so I'm always happy to get my hands dirty when I can.
 
directorik said:
Yes, it shows promise.

First thing on your next one needs to be audio. This is always the last
thing of a first timers mind and it's very, very important. Your audio
mix is terrible. On your other thread you should be asking about audio
– not camera work.

Despite all your excuses the shots aren't bad. Don't use the zoom – and
you use it in your first shot. Just because you have an exposed image
doesn't mean it's well lit. Sometimes the “natural” light works, most of
the time it doesn't. So on your next one use lights. Overall your shot
choices are quite good.

Your use of music is distracting. Too “on the nose” - meaning you use
those cliché stings only to make us jump. Since you chose not to use
underscoring those stings are just annoying.

I understand no budget filmmaking - all of us here do. So your reasons
for poor lighting, soft focus and placing blame on the cameraman doesn't
really work. This is your first short. Don't offer excuses and don't place
blame. Learn and get better. This is a fine first short.
Click to expand...

I've watched it again lastnight, and, although some issues were pointed out earlier in this thread regarding Camerawork, im actually quite pleased with it...I remember being advised on here several times about getting the audio and lighting right, as this is 50% of your film if not more....My complete for failure in both of these areas....Our Lighting guy was only able to attend for a few hours on both days, and my DoP done the sound, even though it isn't his 'expertise' so I really should have brought someone on to do it specifically...we did try a lot with trying to correct the sound, but in a way im glad its turned out the way it has, as now my respect for sound / lighting is far greater....ignorance on my part.......will definitely learn from it
 
FatPenguinSound said:
Interesting film (sorry, it's my brother who's the horror buff)!

I'm an audio, not a video person so I'll speak to what I know.

The foley/effects at the beginning seem very over-pronounced to me -- and then they become very inconsistent afterwards. The dad especially is noticeably missing any footsteps when he walks through the kitchen and up the stairs. It takes a lot of work to balance everything and keep dialog clear and the audio levels were all over the place-- were you running the on-camera mic? I'd suggest really watching the meters on your recorder and getting the levels right before each take -- it makes editing and mixing much easier.

As directorik said, the "non-diegetic "stings were forced and are far too loud compared to the scenes they occurred in. I jumped -- less from the fright and more from the sudden loudness (and need to turn down my monitors), which is a shame because it distracted me from the wonderful work that your make-up artist did.

The biggest thing that distracted me was the lack of consistency in production values -- some things were done with a lot of care, and then suddenly forgotten about. I'll also agree that lighting is a bigger problem than the actual camera work. Like audio, it seems like lighting is one of those "black magic" areas of filmmaking that gets forgotten about, and tends to seemingly take time away from the "important" things like acting and camerawork; but they can really make-or-break your film in a hurry if you don't take the time to get them right.

All that being said, I liked the idea and the narrative. The "scares" weren't too overstated and things moved forward at a reasonable pace (IMO). I also felt that the ending was actually satisfying, which horror films seem to struggle with (usually either going into bland vagueness, or suddenly turning into an action sequence race-to-the-end). I'm looking forward to more!

As far as the DoP and camerawork go: as a director, take ownership of your team and your vision and lead. Don't go hands-off on something and then complain about the result. If something is going wrong -- you are the last line to get it back on track, and it is ultimately your vision that the rest of your crew are working toward. Be responsible for the realisation of that vision. Be engaged with your crew -- respect their knowledge and experience, but also insist that everything come together. If the sound isn't getting recorded the right way, fix it; if the lighting is wrong, change it; if the camera shots aren't working with the intended feel and flow, do something different: but it is up to you to be aware of what your crew is doing and help and enable them do it to their best. It's YOUR short, don't be afraid to own it.

If you need help with audio, let me know -- I don't get to play with film enough where I am so I'm always happy to get my hands dirty when I can.
Click to expand...

thanks very much for the advice....absolutely, I know myself, the sound qualities were constantly being fixed but still weren't sounding right....I should have brought a Sound technician on board, but we pressed ahead after the one who was on board, had to pull out 2 days before.....I would massively appreciate any help with the audio....how would we go about that...would you need a file of it etc (pm me)

thank you
 
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