Drop out of Film School?

Hey, new here, and currently attend Art Institute - Sac for Digital Filmmaking/Video Productions. Iv been studying film throughout high school, and attended another film school before my current. Im not saying im a prodigy, or Im better then most, but Im starting to question even going through the schooling process. Im mostly self taught, and only really felt the need to attend for a degree, and a job. Starting to think about just producing my own shorts with my buddy who iv worked with since the beginning, and really think we could do it. Idk, maybe reading books and shooting shorts all the time might, might not be enough. I defidently have the passion and determination, but is there hope in the industry for a non graduate? Still have alot to learn but school is expensive, and time consuming. not learning what i want to be, or when i want to, most of the time take it upon myself to learn what i have to wait for in school.

any advice, maybe personal success stories from non graduates would be cool.

Of course a non-graduate can be successful.

If you're willing to work your ass-off, living on bare-bones to fund your material, then drop out. Neither option are as good as each-other, but if you're going to drop-out and sit on your backside, talking about the great movies you'll make, then I'll have fries with that.

There's plenty of people on this forum that are self-taught, if it's persuasion you're after, to make that decision, they'll tell you how they made it, but you'll get the other side of the argument too. This type of decision isn't for the mass stranger, especially when it comes to something as altering as this, you should know what the hell you're going to do.

You'll see that both decisions are going to balance themselves out funding wise, when you drop-out, you'll be paying for that equipment you're eligible to.

Not looking for persuasion, just insight. I know it can, and has been done, I just want to know if its a smart decision. I know no one can really answer that, i just want opinions of what people think. Im capable of making this decision, but an extra voice never hurt either.

You don't need film school you can learn on your own. It sounds like you all ready know a lot. Maybe just start working with other film makers and get some experience. I hear experience is the most important thing. I have heard that film school is a waste of money unless you take it in Califonia near Hollywood that way you can make connections to future Hollywood talent. Otherwise your better off self learning and getting as much experience as you can instead of wasting time on film shcool. Since you live in California film school may be a good choice.

Kevin Smith droped out of film school and you probably know how well he has done. I am no expert but I think that film shcool can be learned from doing and learning from books/online. But as far as Jobs you are looking to do you may need to figure out what you want to do before deciding I think that it depends on what you want to do in the film world if you need a degree or not. If you making your own films you don't need a piece of paper to say you know what your doing. You need to show you know what your doing in your films.

Then maybe, you do drop out.

You could have your entire years roster in books recommended in so many threads here, you get to as many sets as you can, in whatever position.

It's a fighters fight.

From what I've read on film making one of the biggest things you gain out of going to film school is contacts. In life, contacts can help you get soooo far. So my suggestion is to get to know everyone at your film school, then if you'd like to go pursue making films yourself or with a buddy, then go do it!

The things you will learn at film school can definitely save you time when you really go into film making (editing shortcuts/secrets etc.) but nothing that you cannot learn on your own.

Its your decision my man! I'm just one of those people that thinks there's nothing out there you cannot learn from just going out and doing it. Learn from your mistakes.

Good luck and I hope you'll stick around with us and give input on our work as well as post some of your own!

-Josh

P.S. Your about 50 minutes away from me

Chris Nolan didn't even attend film School.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Nolan

Here’s my advice:

Stop starting to think about producing your own short films and
make them. You have the passion and determination to do what? Get
a degree? Or make movies?

Here’s my success story from a non graduate:

I dropped out of high school. I’m no prodigy and I’m not better
than most, but I had passion and determination to make movies.
so I thought getting a degree would take time away from that. I
needed a day job so I figured I’d better be in Los Angeles and
work on movies. I’ve never had a non entertainment job.

Okay, I don’t make my sole living as a director, which is what I
wanted. But I direct a few movies a year, I write for a living, I
work crew for a living. I love what I do.

Want some success stories for non graduates?
Quentin Tarantino
Steven Soderbergh
John Sayles
Peter Jackson
Richard Linklater
John Landis
Luc Besson
Martin McDonagh
Terry Gilliam
Clint Eastwood
Ridley Scott
David Fincher
Luc Besson
Joe Carnahan
John Waters
Woody Allen
Peter Bogdanovich
David Cronenberg
John Cassavetes
Sam Rami
Paul Thomas Anderson (dropped out)
Kevin Smith (dropped out)
Whit Stillman
Guillermo del Toro
Robert Rodriguez
Jim Gillespie
Paul Haggis
Wes Craven
George Romero
Alfinso Cuaron
Shane Meadows
James Cameron
Shane Carruth

and Orson Welles did pretty good without ever going to college.

Pedro Monteiro said:

Chris Nolan didn't even attend film School.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Nolan

Click to expand...

That is correct, but you'll note that he *did* go to college. For literature. Something I'd recommend studying for anyone who wants to be a writer/director. Even if you just read alot on your own time.

I'm a proponent of higher education in general, but not for "film making" reasons. I personally chose to study film not because I thought it would give me a job, because it is an art form that I love. Because I wanted to learn the history, the theoretical language, etc. But I went school that taught more of that stuff, and any production we did was mostly on our own.

I'm not a big fan of the "Art-Trade Schools," (when I was 18 I went to the Art Institute of Seattle, kinda wish I hadn't) but I know a few folks from Academy of Art in SF that have done well after dropping the coin on a school that spendy.

Here's my thing with these kind of lists.

The folks that Rik listed that didn't go to college probably would have been just as successful if they had finish, or dropped out, or never attended, or hell, never finished high school.

Just saying. We all find our own path, with or without college.

Also:

Darren Aronofsky is a Harvard and AFI graduate.
Janusz Kaminiski is an AFI Grad, as is Wally Pfister (Nolan's DP).
Seth McFarlane went to the Rhode Island School Of Design for animation. I'll wager he didn't learn his writing skills while there.

And so on.

The point is that "college" or "dropping out" is not what decided the success for these folks. Too many other factors involved.

If you think your time and money is being put to good use, then stay, learn everything you can, network, use the opportunity to get internships, and so on. If you have a plan that you think will work better for you, then by all means, go for it.

You don't need schooling to make you a good filmmaker...but it's a great start to force you to learn the basics, the rules, and it may help you find your niche.

As long as you continue to practice and study...and shoot...you will get better with time.

Sometimes it's good to go to school because you not only learn and network, but you are also given free reign of their equipment, which is a fantastic resource to take advantage of when learning the ropes and gathering some nice material to boost your novice reel.

Just remember...one thing I like to advise people on is...you must first learn the rules completely before you break them. It's a good way to grow (my opinion and the opinion of other professional artists).

Why don't you post some things you've shot, so we can get an idea of where you're at, and your style.

Cheers.

KrossCut said:

Not looking for persuasion, just insight. I know it can, and has been done, I just want to know if its a smart decision. I know no one can really answer that, i just want opinions of what people think. Im capable of making this decision, but an extra voice never hurt either.

Click to expand...

We have a lot in common. I went to the Art Institute of Pittsburgh in 2001. Have an associates degree in Video Production and a bachelors degree in Digital Media Production.

Do I feel like it payed off? Yes and No. As stupid as it seems, it's nice to have that piece of paper especially for resume purposes when locking down a job. I mean, my past got me to where I am today (working at NBC) but in the light of gaining knowledge on filmmaking, nah... I learned everything on my own. Seems like you are in the same boat from what you mention in the original post.

In my opinion...

If you're looking to be an independent filmmaker then it's not a bad idea to stay in school. You need a source of income from somewhere. You can either finish and get a degree with the hopes of getting a decent paying job with a steady 9-5 schedule which frees up nights and weekends to do what you're passionate about. Or take the risk of not graduating and get a so-so job which might be retail where the schedule is chaotic... etc. this isn't always the case of course, but I'm just saying...

Like you said it's nobody's decision except your own, but you just want a second opinion...

If I didn't go to AIP and graduate then I wouldn't have met the friends I met. I also wouldn't have gotten a job at a legal firm as a videographer. I wouldn't have got to the point where I hated that job and quit where in return a buddy from the art institute told me this other company was hiring. I then wouldn't have worked there for 3 years to where I decided to risk it all and pick up and move to NYC. I wouldn't have gotten a job at the NBC experience store doing retail. I also wouldn't have been promoted only after 3 months of kicking so much a$$ that I got promoted to corporate. And that's where I am now. Working at NBC Corporate on the merchandise side of things, being one of the two people running the social media department here and interviewing celebrities while doing filmmaking (my passion) after hours...

So did I learn anything from AIP? No it sucked and it costs like 90grand after tuition, room and board and supplies. But I am glad in that it got me to where I am today which is at a pretty good point!

Just noticed this:

Rik:

Shane Carruth finished college, in mathematics. He was an engineer before making Primer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shane_Carruth

Cheers. Only point that out because I believe in the accuracy of information. Too much hearsay on the web. Only knew that because Primer is one of my favorite movies.

A degree does ya nothing in this industry. Your tenacity, savvy, talent, reel, and people skills are what will get you jobs and gigs.

A degree in cappuccino-making will get you farther in this industry than a degree in filmschool.

I'm another success story for a non-graduate!

grinner said:

A degree does ya nothing in this industry. Your tenacity, savvy, talent, reel, and people skills are what will get you jobs and gigs.

Click to expand...

This is true with or without a degree in anything. Pretty much for any industry too (replacing the word reel with the appropriate material; code, written word, project management track record, etc.).

Tenacity, people skills, technical acumen, artistic ability (honed through practice), and so on. Those are the core. How you choose to get there matters much less than the core attributes. I guess that's my point.

it seems a lot of people think you dont need to be in school, which i tend to agree with. that's the decion i'm making right now is whether or not to go to school at all, and if i do should it be film related.

the thing i'm thinking about in your case is you already are in film school, which means you already paid for it. idk how much you paid for or how long your supposed to stay but you should at least get what you paid for. but after that, read books, watch movies, and make movies.

I should have been more clear.

Since the title of the thread is about film school I made the
assumption KrossCut was asking about non film school graduates.
And since Carruth didn’t graduate from a film school I included
him on my list. I should have added “film school” in my post.

I’m in total agreement with you, David, that those directors would
have been successful no matter what. And that the list of
directors who attended film school (John Carpenter, Coppola,
Zemeckis, Scorcesse, Shane Black, Brian Singer) would have been
successful had they not gone.

Each person takes their own path. There are far more film school
grads who never “made it” than did. But that doesn’t mean film
school is statistically a poor choice.

But it’s human nature to look to the success of others for some
kind of clue. After a point we come to the conclusion that what
happened before has no bearing at all on what is happening to us
now. 15,000 independently produced, ultra low budget movies fail
each year - never find an audience. That means nothing because
yours still might succeed. And we do tend to look at the one,
giant success every few years as the light leading the way out of
the tunnel.

No one publishes the percentage of film school grads who 10 years
later are still not making a living as a director. Or how many do
not make a living in film at all. But if we knew that number I
don’t think it would matter.

Sorry for the tangent....

Yeah, sorry man, I misread that I guess, but I didn't want our young readers to think that Carruth made that awesome movie without the benefit of some sort of higher education.

Not tangential at all really. Actually the bit about ignoring the failures and holding the rare success up as a beacon of hope is interesting (and dead on accurate), because that's what we all do as artistic types. Director, editor, DoP, even folks who's dream job is to key grip or best boy electric. (Don't laugh, those are valuable and actually difficult jobs that require a great deal of knowledge.) We all have to find some inspiration to keep us moving forward because it is such a war of attrition.

I think though, that it is safe to say there are far more folks who have failed than who have succeeded - regardless of their background coming in. Also, success in this industry isn't always a measure of skill.

Hell, I know a teleprompter operator who just "fell into it" because her neighbor owns a freelance prompter business. She made some remark about how people who try and try and try to get into the business (me, for example) have a harder time than someone who just falls back-ass-wards into it. I just nodded and smiled, and walked off. I work my tail off to get gigs, and then work twice as hard as that once I am there. She was a crappy prompter operator and not a hard worker at all. Lame. So, yeah, you don't need higher education to be in this business. But look around at the absolute jack-wagons working crew who just fell into it because mommy or daddy was someone's hairdresser, or lawyer, or whatever. Same goes for Keys as well. Tons of people out there calling themselves Directors or DoPs that just "fell into it."

Not all of them are hacks - but enough are that it throws off the hypothetical statistics that we don't have available to view. I want to repeat that. I have actually met a few folks who lucked into a career as crew or keys, and are actually hard working and talented. The point is that this is a business where knowledge, skill, and work ethic are important for success, but not everyone successful got there because they have those traits.

Anyway, it seemed the thread had taken a more "You don't need college." track rather than the film school focus. (examples of Nolan, Carruth, probably some other ones too) I'm always wary of that. Especially when whoever asks the question is in school and considering leaving. Not something to be taken lightly. I believe in a university education, but not as training for a job per se.

As for me, I have a BA in Film, but I do not consider myself as someone who went to "Film School." Totally different experience than going to a film "trade" school like Academy of Art, AI International, NYFA, Expressions, etc. I could have majored in anything, but I wanted to study the history, the theoretical stuff, the language of the art form, things like that.

I'll spare the long, sordid story of me. Suffice to say that I didn't do college right out of high school. I know that even though I haven't reached my goal just yet - I wouldn't be this close had I not gone back to college.

Not because I studied film, but because I got an education.*

* - I also acknowledge that an 'education' does not necessarily have to come from university, but I still believe that the process has value for certain folks.

Double Edit:

Don't know why I am still rambling on this, but here goes:

Personally, I did not start learning to constructively interact with other people until I was in like my mid 20s. Going back to school was a large part of that process. Not everyone needs that sort of social education but I did. I learned things that were missing from my childhood experience by putting myself through college as an adult. I guess that part of it often goes unspoken when folks talk about "to school," or not "to school."

Triple Edit:

Rik, I am in no way shape manner or form referring to you or anyone else on this board when I talk about folks who 'fell into the business.' I've met rock stars and jack wagons from all manner of backgrounds, that paragraph was just 1 part rant, 1 part example, and 1 part tangent. Okay, going to stop talking now.

"Toe tags get caught up in my teeth, because my foot is in my mouth."