Episode 7 will be set 30 years after Ep 6.
- Thread starter Aspiring Mogul
- Start date
It all seemed pretty silly to me.. none of that silliness is in the first one.
Remember that big ass machine that the hooded midgets were abducting droids in ? That seemed reasonable. much more reasonable than the imperial walkers.
but yes i realize my opinion is an unpopular one, i don't expect anyone to accept it. I could go on and on about the silliness in episodes 5 and 6
even if you accept that it's too cold for planet bound ships at night.. it's obviously not during the day. and that's when luke was riding around on his kangaroo. (yes I know it's not actually a kangaroo) supposedly he is this great hero and leader and he's just out there riding around on an animal for whatever reason. lol
Sorry, couldn't resist
It just seemed funny that we're talking about a space opera full of ridiculous made up stuff and you picked the walkers as something that should have been done in a more realistic manner.
Sorry, couldn't resist
It just seemed funny that we're talking about a space opera full of ridiculous made up stuff and you picked the walkers as something that should have been done in a more realistic manner.
Well like I said I have a long list that I'm sure no one would agree with.
So I picked some stuff at the very start of the movie
And I'm perfectly willing to accept that there is a force lol.
I don't know. Silly or not, I've always that the walkers were one of the coolest things in the Star Wars movies. =P
Actually, the whole sequence, with the little fighters zooming around them etc. Pretty cinematic, really.
And the fact that they were still using physical models etc., rather than all CGI...Doubleplusgood.
Actually, the whole sequence, with the little fighters zooming around them etc. Pretty cinematic, really.
And the fact that they were still using physical models etc., rather than all CGI...Doubleplusgood.
John Williams has been confirmed for the score: source
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7T98bF0O60
I don't know. Silly or not, I've always that the walkers were one of the coolest things in the Star Wars movies. =P
Actually, the whole sequence, with the little fighters zooming around them etc. Pretty cinematic, really.
And the fact that they were still using physical models etc., rather than all CGI...Doubleplusgood.
I'm a real stickler for some things. I think it comes from starting programming at age 12.. I spent so much time with a compiler, where if anything doesn't make sense the whole program fails. Illogic eats away at me, like a splinter in my mind.
Not to say i am perfect.. but on a large budget movie i would definitely hire a person JUST to call me out when I do something illogical. I would have them by my side .
All too often real life is stranger and more interesting than fiction. I don't buy it as an excuse that something is cool. There are an immeasurable number of cool stories that don't contract logic and common sense
Last edited:
Understood. Interesting psychological profile.
Lord knows that doesn't seem to be Lucas's style.
I suppose that's why successful (and probably affluent) and fortunate writers have good editors and research assistants to save them from making big or embarrassing gaffes.
Just for the sake and fun of friendly argument, you can probably make reasonable excuses for all of your issues with ESB.
1. Ships can't fly at night, but can during the day. That doesn't make any sense.
People can't be out of the base at night. Like Dready already said, maybe it's sooo ridiculously cold. Even with all their advanced technology, they can't bear it anymore (or well enough) than we can. Also, it's maybe more than the cold. Maybe it's wind and storms. Maybe it all plays havoc on the fighter ships. Maybe their instruments become useless.
Or maybe it's not the ships.
Maybe it's the people. Maybe those ships were never designed for those conditions. Maybe they were designed to operate in tropical or desert climates. Maybe they have inadequate heaters, or none at all. Maybe the ships would fly fine, but the pilots would freeze to death. This is the ragtag rebel alliance, after all. They're cobbling their armaments to together.
2. Why is Luke riding a Tundra Kangaroo and out by himself?
Why not? They're probably indigenous beasts of burden, or transportation. And back in the first Star Wars films, the Jedi were still sort of mystics, or wizards, or even like quietist monks (similar to the Taoist or Buddhist mystics from whom Lucas obviously borrowed some of his mythos). Ain't that just like Luke, even if he's only a neonate in ESB, to go a little native or go off on his own riding a local kangaroo?
And maybe the ghost of Obi Wan lured him out there for his own mystical designs --a little bit of a test, a training exercise, or to put Luke in the right state of mind to hear Obi Wan's communique from beyond. Maybe it's not strictly logical or rational or reasonable. But it's also not out of line with that mystical aspect, which, as we know, later pretty much seemed to be abandoned in the prequels.
On a side note:
I think I've already written somewhere here on I.T. (for whatever it's worth) my feelings about that apparent abandonment. I see it as Lucas's attempt to move the force and the Jedi out of the realm of fantasy and place them into the realm of science fiction. I'm not saying I love or approve of that move, necessarily. But at the very least, I'm not entirely unsympathetic towards it, either. It has it's merits, depending.
3. Imperial walkers are lame.
But what makes them so unlikely? Okay, we might imagine something with wheels that would make more sense. Perhaps something like what they might send to Mars...like what they have sent to Mars (and, if I'm not mistaken, are planning to send there in future), only on a much larger scale. Or maybe something with tank treads. But are we so certain tank treads would work well on Hoth terrain? Maybe walkers work better. Maybe walkers are more versatile.
Maybe it has nothing to do with that --how well or ill-suited walkers were for use on Hoth:
Maybe when they found the rebel base on Hoth and decided to attack it immediately, maybe they wanted to use Imperial Tanks specially designed for combat on ice planets. But, maybe the nearest fleet of such tanks were on the other side of the galaxy at that time and they didn't have the patience to wait for them. At the same time, maybe they did have some walkers on another mission or on station nearby, near enough to be redeployed to Hoth in time for the attack. Maybe the walkers weren't ideal for the mission. But maybe somebody made the decision to go with them because they wanted to attack immediately.
And maybe Darth Vader later used the forced to strangle that somebody to death.
Sure.
Anyway. Imperial Walkers look really cool. One of the reasons ESB is the best of the three. =)
* * * * *
That's a really interesting point, Josh, about the finding out the Empire is only about twenty years old. Another kind of disappointment with the prequels. I haven't read any of the other stuff, novels, etc., fleshing out the Star Wars universe and timeline. So, being free of all that, I kind of thought it's implied in the prequels that the Sith had ruled at least once before. If that were the case, our childhood romance with the idea that the Empire was old could sort of be saved by imagining that not so long ago there had been a previous Sith empire or regime, and the Empire that we know from the first films was its inheritor, a continuance, really, a reemergence.
Yeah, still rather unsatisfying. Those damn prequels. =P
Just goes to show that Lucas, God bless him, really didn't quite work all that stuff out before production. It really wasn't necessary to getting the films made. But when fans start analyzing it and trying to put two and two together and beyond, well, things get a bit murky, if not messy.
Lord knows that doesn't seem to be Lucas's style.
I suppose that's why successful (and probably affluent) and fortunate writers have good editors and research assistants to save them from making big or embarrassing gaffes.
Just for the sake and fun of friendly argument, you can probably make reasonable excuses for all of your issues with ESB.
1. Ships can't fly at night, but can during the day. That doesn't make any sense.
People can't be out of the base at night. Like Dready already said, maybe it's sooo ridiculously cold. Even with all their advanced technology, they can't bear it anymore (or well enough) than we can. Also, it's maybe more than the cold. Maybe it's wind and storms. Maybe it all plays havoc on the fighter ships. Maybe their instruments become useless.
Or maybe it's not the ships.
Maybe it's the people. Maybe those ships were never designed for those conditions. Maybe they were designed to operate in tropical or desert climates. Maybe they have inadequate heaters, or none at all. Maybe the ships would fly fine, but the pilots would freeze to death. This is the ragtag rebel alliance, after all. They're cobbling their armaments to together.
2. Why is Luke riding a Tundra Kangaroo and out by himself?
Why not? They're probably indigenous beasts of burden, or transportation. And back in the first Star Wars films, the Jedi were still sort of mystics, or wizards, or even like quietist monks (similar to the Taoist or Buddhist mystics from whom Lucas obviously borrowed some of his mythos). Ain't that just like Luke, even if he's only a neonate in ESB, to go a little native or go off on his own riding a local kangaroo?
And maybe the ghost of Obi Wan lured him out there for his own mystical designs --a little bit of a test, a training exercise, or to put Luke in the right state of mind to hear Obi Wan's communique from beyond. Maybe it's not strictly logical or rational or reasonable. But it's also not out of line with that mystical aspect, which, as we know, later pretty much seemed to be abandoned in the prequels.
On a side note:
I think I've already written somewhere here on I.T. (for whatever it's worth) my feelings about that apparent abandonment. I see it as Lucas's attempt to move the force and the Jedi out of the realm of fantasy and place them into the realm of science fiction. I'm not saying I love or approve of that move, necessarily. But at the very least, I'm not entirely unsympathetic towards it, either. It has it's merits, depending.
3. Imperial walkers are lame.
But what makes them so unlikely? Okay, we might imagine something with wheels that would make more sense. Perhaps something like what they might send to Mars...like what they have sent to Mars (and, if I'm not mistaken, are planning to send there in future), only on a much larger scale. Or maybe something with tank treads. But are we so certain tank treads would work well on Hoth terrain? Maybe walkers work better. Maybe walkers are more versatile.
Maybe it has nothing to do with that --how well or ill-suited walkers were for use on Hoth:
Maybe when they found the rebel base on Hoth and decided to attack it immediately, maybe they wanted to use Imperial Tanks specially designed for combat on ice planets. But, maybe the nearest fleet of such tanks were on the other side of the galaxy at that time and they didn't have the patience to wait for them. At the same time, maybe they did have some walkers on another mission or on station nearby, near enough to be redeployed to Hoth in time for the attack. Maybe the walkers weren't ideal for the mission. But maybe somebody made the decision to go with them because they wanted to attack immediately.
And maybe Darth Vader later used the forced to strangle that somebody to death.
Sure.
Anyway. Imperial Walkers look really cool. One of the reasons ESB is the best of the three. =)
* * * * *
That's a really interesting point, Josh, about the finding out the Empire is only about twenty years old. Another kind of disappointment with the prequels. I haven't read any of the other stuff, novels, etc., fleshing out the Star Wars universe and timeline. So, being free of all that, I kind of thought it's implied in the prequels that the Sith had ruled at least once before. If that were the case, our childhood romance with the idea that the Empire was old could sort of be saved by imagining that not so long ago there had been a previous Sith empire or regime, and the Empire that we know from the first films was its inheritor, a continuance, really, a reemergence.
Yeah, still rather unsatisfying. Those damn prequels. =P
Just goes to show that Lucas, God bless him, really didn't quite work all that stuff out before production. It really wasn't necessary to getting the films made. But when fans start analyzing it and trying to put two and two together and beyond, well, things get a bit murky, if not messy.
Last edited:
1) Obviously space is colder than any planet could be.. so it doesn't make sense at all for the pilots to freeze inside of a space vehicle.
The only argument you could make is that it requires different engines to fly in a planet's atmosphere.. and somehow the ship has different engines that don't work in the cold inside of an atmosphere. But still seems very strange that he would be riding some kangaroo.. and also the probe at the beginning has absolutely no problems flying around at night so whats the deal with that.. obviously the technology exists. I think it's reaching to say the ships can't fly at night and the whole thing is pretty weak. They're just expecting most audience members not to step back and think for themselves about the whole situation. they're not expecting anyone to question whats going on
2) if they are indigenous why do they say that han can't go after luke, because his kangaroo would die in the cold.. seems strange they cannot survive in an atmosphere that they're indigenous to. maybe you could make some kind of convoluted argument but again this seems pretty strange to me.
3) Obviously these things had to land somewhere. why did they land so far away from the base and then walk.. why not just land right outside of the base.. Why walk at all, why not be snow mobiles or tanks.. these are both simpler to operate and don't have really obvious weaknesses.
why don't they hover.. why don't they attack from space with kinetic bombardment .. something like a bunker buster or a laser?
http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2004-06/rods-god
why not something that hovers like those motorcycles on endor
the only reason I can think of for those 4 legged walkers are so that it 'looks cool' to fly between the legs and trip them over..
I'm just saying .. technology of tanks from 1920s seems to be stronger and more offensive than these walkers from a super advanced multi-galatic empire . Doesn't that strike you as silly
The only argument you could make is that it requires different engines to fly in a planet's atmosphere.. and somehow the ship has different engines that don't work in the cold inside of an atmosphere. But still seems very strange that he would be riding some kangaroo.. and also the probe at the beginning has absolutely no problems flying around at night so whats the deal with that.. obviously the technology exists. I think it's reaching to say the ships can't fly at night and the whole thing is pretty weak. They're just expecting most audience members not to step back and think for themselves about the whole situation. they're not expecting anyone to question whats going on
2) if they are indigenous why do they say that han can't go after luke, because his kangaroo would die in the cold.. seems strange they cannot survive in an atmosphere that they're indigenous to. maybe you could make some kind of convoluted argument but again this seems pretty strange to me.
3) Obviously these things had to land somewhere. why did they land so far away from the base and then walk.. why not just land right outside of the base.. Why walk at all, why not be snow mobiles or tanks.. these are both simpler to operate and don't have really obvious weaknesses.
why don't they hover.. why don't they attack from space with kinetic bombardment .. something like a bunker buster or a laser?
http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2004-06/rods-god
why not something that hovers like those motorcycles on endor
the only reason I can think of for those 4 legged walkers are so that it 'looks cool' to fly between the legs and trip them over..
I'm just saying .. technology of tanks from 1920s seems to be stronger and more offensive than these walkers from a super advanced multi-galatic empire . Doesn't that strike you as silly
This series rests somewhere between fantasy and science fiction. As such, you can fill in whatever justifications the limits of your imagination can hold for whatever questions you'd have.
Perhaps the propulsion design of the ship utilizes the wings as a form of separation, and them being spread apart would potentially give the pilot more control and maneuverability the same way that holding a weighted bar becomes more manageable if you spread your hands.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=watch?v=_NMfBKrdErY
It wouldn't have the exact same physical properties, but:
http://phys.org/news/2013-09-scientists-never-before-seen.html
It may well have been an issue of atmosphere rather than one entirely of cold. Perhaps the cold mixed with the natural moisture of the air was enough to mess with different engines. Perhaps the probe (being an automated exploratory vessel) was designed to be better fit to more varied environments. Perhaps the hover engines of the probe would be unsuitable for battlecraft because of weight restrictions, or limited speed. I can really make up any excuse I want, it's all make-believe.
Indigenous creatures could have numerous ways of dealing with their environment. Shelter, burrowing, etc. All things that various creatures use to survive in harsh habitats. That doesn't mean that they can survive everything in their ecosystem. The idea that a tauntaun could die from overexposure to a blizzard seems feasible.
Meh, this one's a pretty decent point, but if that's really all it takes for you to dislike a movie, see IDoM's last post...
Perhaps the propulsion design of the ship utilizes the wings as a form of separation, and them being spread apart would potentially give the pilot more control and maneuverability the same way that holding a weighted bar becomes more manageable if you spread your hands.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=watch?v=_NMfBKrdErY
It wouldn't have the exact same physical properties, but:
http://phys.org/news/2013-09-scientists-never-before-seen.html
It may well have been an issue of atmosphere rather than one entirely of cold. Perhaps the cold mixed with the natural moisture of the air was enough to mess with different engines. Perhaps the probe (being an automated exploratory vessel) was designed to be better fit to more varied environments. Perhaps the hover engines of the probe would be unsuitable for battlecraft because of weight restrictions, or limited speed. I can really make up any excuse I want, it's all make-believe.
Indigenous creatures could have numerous ways of dealing with their environment. Shelter, burrowing, etc. All things that various creatures use to survive in harsh habitats. That doesn't mean that they can survive everything in their ecosystem. The idea that a tauntaun could die from overexposure to a blizzard seems feasible.
Meh, this one's a pretty decent point, but if that's really all it takes for you to dislike a movie, see IDoM's last post...
oh joy. the 'it's just a movie' response
I'll pass on commenting , I cannot tolerate this rationale
Nice. Way to ignore the other 98% of the comment.
Oh My God, we're nitpicking Empire Strikes Back?!
It's one of the most influential works of art of our generation! You can nitpick ANY sci-fi movie, the flaws are there if you want to find them.
But not Empire. C'mon!
It's one of the most influential works of art of our generation! You can nitpick ANY sci-fi movie, the flaws are there if you want to find them.
But not Empire. C'mon!