M.o.Mo. Club: 13 Assasins

My suggestion got picked, yay! This one comes highly recommended to me, from a co-worker whose opinion I trust. Both from how he describes it, and from what I've read online, it's firmly divided in two halves. The first half is all setup, and the second half is just pure samurai action, done ridiculously-well. I'm looking forward to watching it, maybe tonight.

Official discussion begins January 20th!
 
Okay, so… 13 Assassins…

When I added this film to my rental list, I knew nothing about it. It wasn’t until I found it on LoveFilm that I realised it was directed by Takashi Miike. This lowered my expectations of the movie. Not that I dislike Miike, he’s a perfectly capable director, but I find that his movies are always “over-hyped”. ‘Ichi the Killer’ and ‘Audition’ both sounded like my kind of film, yet I was disappointed by both.

‘13 Assassins’ was a pleasant surprise. I thoroughly enjoyed it. The fight scenes (or the third act, if you prefer) were excellent. I had expected more gore (think ‘Ichi’) and was pleasantly surprised by the lack there of. There was some good character development in there, especially with Lord Naritsugu… I really grew to hate him.

After having seen the movie, I have read a little about it online. Apparently Kiga, the hunter, is a demon? This didn’t come across to me. I assumed he just managed to survive his injuries (continuity error, perhaps?). Oh well…. Maybe I just got confused…

All in all, I don’t have a lot to say about this movie. It was good. Maybe not brilliant, but definitely worth a watch. It would appear that Miike has grown as a filmmaker, which is great to see. ’13 Assassins’ even seemed to have a Tarantino vibe going on. Very cool.



On a side note, did anybody watch this on Blu-Ray (could be the same on the DVD)? The title menu page is really creepy… It’s a close-up of one of the samurai (the same image that’s on the cover art), but his eyes look around the room in a really weird and inhuman way. It’s really quite odd…
 
Watching it right now, so running commentary. The opening is nice; quiet and understated. As mad_hatter did, I expected to like Ichi more than I did. I mean, great gore, but at the end of the day, it's a yakuza film. Not my cup of tea (loved the ending though). Audition, however, I did love, for it's more understated nature.

Anyway, the opening seppuku could have been done in a very graphic way (obviously Miike has the stomach for it, no pun intended), but the subtle, minimal shot a) makes it more dramatically intense and b) reminds me of classic samurai films. It sets the tone, and expectations in the viewer's mind. Soon after that, there's a slightly more graphic scene. To me, it says "hey, remember all those old awesome movies? I love those! However, I'm going a bit further with this one."

More as I watch, but the first 15 minutes do a great job setting up the film. There's much to be said for a good introduction, and I think 13 Assassins really nails it!

....a little further in now, another note needs to be made about sound design. The action scenes are intense, and you can close your eyes and still feel the intensity.

The story so far (I'm at the halfway mark) is very much a classic story. It's not groundbreaking or particularly inventive; it definitely feels like an homage to older samurai tales. There's something to be said for that.

Oh, hey, there's number 13. Watching more now...

Okay, finished now. The end is indeed one drawn out and awesome action sequence. Lots of fun to watch; very exciting, intense, tragic, noble, all the parts that make up a samurai film. Very enjoyable. I can see the comparison to Tarantino, but I think it's more that this film was inspired by a lot of the same films that Tarantino was.

Anyway, enjoyable film and very well done.
 
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I don't really see the Tarantino comparisons, but I do agree with you guys that this movie is pretty enjoyable. The 3rd act is just ridiculous. A little too much going on in the 3rd act, in my opinion, but I'll save that comment for later. Nevertheless, those climactic battles were, for the most part, very thrilling.

I do have a couple problems with the movie, though, and it was all in the script.

Thirteen guys was too much for me to keep track of. It didn't help that twelve of them looked the same (NO, I'm not being racist, I'm strictly talking about their costumes/hair). Only a small handful of the characters were memorable enough for me to really tell them apart from each other. If we're to compare this to "Ocean's 11", you've got roughly the same amount of characters, and they're all really distinct from each other. Yet, in "13 Assassins", so many of the characters have the exact same personality (stoic samurai), but somehow I'm expected to tell them apart from each other.

If this were my movie, I think I would've allowed that ambiguity to exist, and just work within that constriction. I would've had maybe 10 of the assassins just be stock characters, Red-Coats if you will. I would've made this very much more the movie of just two or three main dudes, with a bunch of stock, nameless samurai.

As is, though, everybody gets a little bit of face-time. And this becomes especially problematic for me during the climactic finale. Each guy, or tandem of guys, has a glorious heroic death, and more than half the time I was like, who is that guy?

I also feel like the narrative took too long to pick up. And perhaps this is also related to the aspect of having too many players. I think the first third, or so, just took too long to get going, and maybe it could've been more tight, had they narrowed their focus.

All of these criticisms are only being made for the sake of this filmmakers'-critique discussion. My problems with the movie didn't ruin it for me, and overall I did enjoy watching it. I think I'd probably give it a solid "B". I really dug the coloring, I thought the acting was terrific (especially our main protag and villain), and like I mentioned earlier, damn -- that climactic finale was badass!
 
Don't have time to rewatch it but I saw it in the cinema and here are/were my thoughts.

I don’t know Samurai movies very well at all. I’m not naturally attracted to the idea of surreal carnage and obedience in the face of death. But I found the very first scene of 13 Assassins captivating as some Japanese guy (that’s my name for about 8 of the 15 assassins) commits hara-kiri in brutal, but off-screen, fashion. This is the basic feeling of the first half of the movie as a bunch of Japanese guys contemplate suicide or murder. But it’s also extremely effective as it introduces the main villain of the piece (Evil Japanese Guy) and his crimes. In one particularly emotional sequence a woman who has had her arms and legs amputated by the Evil Japanese Guy and issue a truly blood curdling scream.

The second half of the movie is muddy mayhem as lead character Shinza (played by Koji Yakusho from Babel and Memoirs of a Geisha) desperately seeks to kill Evil Japanese Girl and, in a slightly perverse form of reasoning, die an honorable death. The band of assassins (12 of them and some random comic relief they picked up on the way) rig the town as a giant death trap so that when Evil Japanese Guy and his entourage of 200 soldiers (who strangely don’t have a single gun on them) arrive they get sucked into a bloodbath against 13 ruthless and incredibly highly trained Samurai.

If you’re not interested in seeing lots of Japanese guys stabbing one another whilst rolling around in the mud and contemplating hara-kiri then this probably isn’t the film for you. But Takashi Miike has crafted an extraordinary fight scene that perfectly compliments the films opening mediation on life, death and evil. Some of it is too samurai for me with obedience and loyalty being stretched to international breaking point and some of the comic relief (Stone Flinger Guy and Slightly Fatter Japanese Guy) seems unnecessary in such a fine film. But the rest of it is visceral, exhilarating and satisfyingly destructive.

Full of Japanese Guys killing one another and all the better for it. Clever and delirious filmmaking.

EDIT: Just re-read what I wrote at the time. Apologies, that was a very poor review.
 
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....a little further in now, another note needs to be made about sound design. The action scenes are intense, and you can close your eyes and still feel the intensity.
Totally agree, the sound was really awesome. You felt every hit, blade, explosion and even the crackling fire.

I must admit to have the same problem that Cracker Funk had. The characters are too similar to each other and the uniform costumes don't make it easier.

Not knowing any of Takashi Miike's movies before, I was not expecting something different than what I saw. Sure, it was more gore than usually shown in samurai movies, but the rest was pretty "old school".
A solid movie with great fighting and action sequences, good cinematography and sound design. Not mainstream compatible, but fans of the genre and everyone who's open-minded about asian cinema should be able to enjoy it. The story has no big surprises or twists, but it serves the purpose.

There is not much more that I can say right now. In my opinion, there was nothing really done wrong, but also no new ideas.
 
I didn't have a problem with the slow pace of the film, but I've watched a ton of samurai films. I do agree that the characters were mostly indistinct, except the one or two that are actually distinct characters.

It's interesting comparing this to an earlier M.o.Mo. pick, Chinatown. Both are kind of "throwback" films to very distinct genres that were no longer popular. Chinatown arguably kicked off the whole neo-noir movement which, while never really as popular as noir was in its day, found a niche and lived comfortably in it. Will 13 Assassins kick off a rebirth of the Samurai film? Is it part of a larger movement going on right now that I'm just not aware of?

I personally don't think, at least with western audiences, the samurai film could really catch on. As has been mentioned; the pacing is not what we're accustomed to. On the other hand, the recontextualization of the samurai film is a western tradition (see The Magnificent Seven, as a western, and Star Wars as The Hidden Fortress in space). With that in mind, 13 Assassins could absolutely fit in a Game of Thrones style fantasy film!
 
Havent read any of the comments above for fear of spoilers.

Im going to have to apologize for not taking part this month. I meant to but ive been really busy preparing for my trip to Spain. And im flying out in a bit.

As i posted in my other thread, catch u all later and ill watch this sooner or later and post here. Hopefully ill be able to take part in MoMo March.

Once again, truly sorry abt this.

:)
 
Don't be sorry, Ernest! Have a great time in Spain! I assume you're there on business, but I'm envious, nonetheless.

This movie-watching-club is strictly for fun, and not an obligation to anyone. Do it when you want to, skip it when you want to. :D
 
Ya'll's note taking sux.

But then again, I'm a fruitcake. ;)

Here we go...

Note opening sequence's very simple three fixed camera shots:
1 - bird's eye setting up the event we can anticipate is about to happen
2 - medium tilt-up shot of actor performing act off screen
3 - 180° bird's eye showing the aftermath of the act
No bloodbath on screen.

1st DIY Sequence Practice Proposal: To those of us interested in practicing craft, film your own three fixed position sequence of an event that occurs off screen. Post in some other thread.
Share what we learned.


I like master Doi's referral to the Shogun's orders of addressing his younger brother Naritsugu "quietly". Nice.

1st Assassin - Shinzaemon, the experienced but retired master living the peaceful fishing life alone. Ahhh...
Is that a trope? A cliché? Seems awfully "Ben Kenobi-ish".

BAD GUY --> Naritsugu, rape of Chise only suggested and beheadment of monkey neck off screen.
Makino father serves as martyr - and becomes key element later in story.

DOI "He cut out her tongue, as well" line was a wee over the top.

PHYSICAL CONFLICT ESTABLISHED: SHINZAEMON "I will accomplish your wish with magnificence".
Well... first, there was no wish actually stated by either Doi or the Old Shogun, only an implication of the situation needs to be addressed and I'm talking to you, gonna parade an old guy with a story, and show you a freak. I'll let you fill in the blanks.
Love it.

BAD GUY'S BITCH --> Hanbei, poor bastard's spent his entire existence playing catch up with Shinzaemon, even took position with the nutbag Naritsugu to attain the position equal to Shinzaemon's last post.

ACT I concludes. We all know what the problem is.
ACT II Begins. Now let's go solve it!


HANBEI "If Doi has chosen [Shinzaemon] then we have drawn the worst luck".
This is exactly what I was talking about in another thread where one of the simplest elements to story crafting is to simply have someone else verbally establish another character as being powerful. No expensive and time consuming need to shoot or display such.
Just have someone say it. Several characters, even. They don't even have to be powerful and respected themselves. Just some sort of credible source.
Strict adherence to "show, don't tell" is bullsh!t.
Sometimes telling is plenty effective enough.

2nd Assassin Kuanaga, close friend of Shinzaemon. Kuanaga brings his latest samurai student Ishizuka, the 3rd Assassin.

Kuanaga also brings an older student, Mitsuhashi 4th Assassin, along with four other men, two subordinates, Otake & Hioke the 5th and 6th Assassins, and two "men", Higuchi & Horii the 7th and 8th Assassins

Shinzaemon's own student from years ago, Hirayama, has been living as a hired sword, or ronin, for the last ten years and would like to pay back his debt to Shinzaemon by joining as the 9th Assassin

Together, these nine begin outlining territorial limitations to engagement as well as manpower limitations.

Introduce Shinzaemon's nephew Shinrakuru, dissatisfied with the life of a samurai and his own personal life.

Hirayama (#9) volunteers his own young orphan student to the cause, Ogara, the 10th Assassin, and brings his associate Sahara, the lowly Ronin with a spear, who becomes the 11th Assassin.

Stumbling in with self disgust is Shinzaemon's nephew Shinrakuru, seemingly throwing his pointless life away as the 12th Assassin.

All meetNgreet, perform a little training together, Higuchi & Horii (#s 7 & 8) assigned to explosives (and mild comic relief), begin thoughtful plan formulation.

VALUE CONFLICT ESTALISHED - Hanbei's surprise visit has a vulgar expositionary block describing what a true worthless POS he is, culminating in some pathetic subordination to Shinzaemon seeking confirmation that a samurai's duty is to serve his Lord, only to have Shinzaemon state a samurai's duty is to protect the people.
This will remain as Shinzaemon's ever present "good guy" value and Hanbei's constant source of moral conflict between misperceived duty to a Lord he doesn't approve of and a classmate he's always tried to best, if only poorly emulated.

#12, nephew Shinrakuru begins voice over questioning his uncle's timing.
Hanbei begins questioning his adversary's timing.
Both establish Shinzaemon as the master planner.
After ally and foe are both on pins and needles, Shinzaemon announces his sound plan + some luck: Drive Naritsugu to the city of Ochiai, defeat his display samurai guard there.
Shinzaemon's close friend Kuanaga and student Ishizuka (#s 2 & 3) sent to secure a no-pass across the Kiso bridge from the Makino father of the raped DAL and beheaded son.
Kuanaga's eldest student Mitsuhashi (#4) sent with bribe money to negotiate with the leadership of the city of Ochiai to permit their usage of their city for their group's assault on Naritsugu.

The first battle is the first real outdoor scene and is shot on a heavy overcast day. Note even shadows.
The attack along the road sends the company across the mountains.

More Higuchi & Horii (#s 7 & 8) humor the audience with the leaches.

Just as they get lost in the mountain forest they rescue Koyata Kiga from the suspended trap, who trades guide services for food. Despite claiming samurai lineage he is not accepted among the group as a samurai himself.
His indignantcy is a constant source of petty humor for the remainder of the show, as well as motivation to prove himself worthy of their kinsmanship.

ACT II part I ends. All significant characters have been introduced and key story elements set in motion.
ACT II part II begins. Time to develop all the story elements previously set in motion.


At the Kiso bridge Hanbei permits Naritsugu to place his own life in danger.
Note scene shot in near full sunlight.

Hanbei's conservative decision to abandon propriety, insult the Naegi clan, bypass danger to protect Naritsugu is undone when Naritsugu himself tells him "Choose the foolish path. It's more fun that way".

Again, seppuku performed off screen, this time by Makino patriarch to protect the plot against Naritsugu.

Note forest scenes shot on overcast days.

Credit given to Makino father as a great samurai for serving his people, not their evil lord.

Preparatory transformation of Ochiai begins just past film's midpoint.
Note overcast sky and even lighting.

All of these overcast skies should allow for a flatter color range image to be captured in camera to be tweaked for color and contrast in post to bring out richer colors by not crushing blacks and blowing out highlights on the original image.

Main battle sequence mostly shot on overcast days.
However, close observation shows lighting continuity is all over the place.
Arrows are fired from overcast roof tops to sun lit targets in the courtyard.


Hanbei's delay to triple his samurai force surprises Shinzemon and company, out of skewed desperation he accepts Kiga as a samuarai of sorts, 13th Assassin, and leads them into battle.

ACT II part II ends, It's a pretty bad situation, all sensible hope of surviving their own assault against Naritsugu is gone. This is a suicide mission.
ACT III begins, classic "How are they gonna get out of this impossible situation? 13 against 200!"


NUMEROUS military strategic blunders at Ochiai follow many shrewd decisions beforehand.
If there was something fishy nagging at the back of your male brains, this might be it.
Whatever.
Just watch it. Quit thinking about it.
BTW, WhereTH did all of those arrows come from? Do you guys recall seeing the twelve sams humping that sh!t over the mountains? Yeah... I didn't either. I'm about to b!tch about the sam sword garden, too. Same gripe.

The exploding death of Mitsuhashi (#4) splashing gallons of blood over the rooftop was... absurd.

Okay, now the sword garden where Hirayama (#9) goes through fifty paper sams is pretty cool and all, but where the h3ll did all those swords come from? It's not like they're back in the "big city" where there are five different pawn shops to buy these by the bulk, and I don't recall them humpin' what looks like probably ten to fifteen swords apiece over the mountain and through the forest either.
Whatever.
Just watch the show.

By the time the battle gets to the Kuanaga (#2) sword sequence with Shinzaemon's (#1) rescue the sound of swords slashing and clanging has become increasingly overplayed.
Fortunately, audio relief comes from Hirayama's (#9) use of bone crushing rock blows leading to his eventual death, mercifully followed by Kiga's wild man branch blows.

When Naritsugu throws his short sword into Kiga's neck and he staggers back notice the camera pulls back slightly to increase the distance.

(Pathetic) Final Showdown: Hanbei and Shinzaemon's last stand is shot under an overcast sky.
Hanbei abandons negotiation rather easily. I guess he's just itching for a fight.
180° rule mostly observed, frequently violated.

Note additional weight should have been added to the prop head of Hanbei when it's kicked.

Shinzaemon and Nagitsugu's confrontation shot under a sunny sky.
Pathetic conclusion.
Hardly epic.

2nd DIY Sequence Practice Proposal: Shoot one overcast shot and one sunny shot, match them up in post. Post in another thread, see what we learned.



Okay, This should have been more of an ensemble cast film, more like OCEAN'S ELEVEN franchise, SNATCH, or SYRIANA.
Would have benefited a great deal from developing more of the 12 assassin characters other than Shinzaemon and Hariyama with some Kiga on the side.
And that final battle sequence between near-peers sucked donkey balls.
The "event" where Shinzaemon basically let Nagitsugu stick him in the belly then shove him off and cut his head off was retarded. Lame sauce.
Planning on this could've benefitted from a few more weeks of development or getting more or less chefs in or out of the kitchen.
The material was there for a much better story.
Oh, well...

:)
 
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Ya'll's note taking sux.

Yeah, you've definitely got us all beat there ;) Good writeup, and I dig your exercises to learn from the film! You did bring up an interesting point...

Pathetic conclusion.
Hardly epic.

I actually think that was the point. And Kiga even points it out at the end, about how expected more out of samurai. Interesting bits about his character over on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13_Assassins ...I'd guessed something like that, but the specific folklore references were lost on me. Also didn't know this film was a remake of one from the 60s; I had assumed it was just an homage to the style. Anyway.

Anti-climax. The Assassins, and even Naritsugu are wrapped up in the "old way". The old way is becoming obsolete (see end title card). The samurai are wrapped up in their honor and tradition but the world has moved on (see huge army turned away by a handful of guns earlier in the film). Naritsugu is a monster, but his death is pathetic (the implication that he does not respect the samurai code in order to do the horrible things he did, thus cannot face death with nobility). Shinzaemon is all about the code, and probably would have killed himself afterwards for killing the shogun's brother. They both end up in the same place.

As a viewer, it certainly isn't as exciting to watch as an all-out dramatic duel, but the film had already had lots of those, and I think by ending the way it did, it made the point a little better. Or that's how I see it anyway.

Good writeup!
 
I like the ending. I'll be honest, yeah, I was expecting a giant end-all showdown. But when it didn't happen, I actually felt that it worked. It was one of the few moments when I actually connected on some kind of emotional level with our main protag (whom I always want to call "Shinzon", except that's the bad-guy from "ST: Nemesis").
 
We making nominations for February's MoMoClub?

Hardwired (2009) $5m budget, two Hwood stars, released straight to DVD, sucked big donkey parties.
http://www.youtube.com/movie?v=e1SAFmj05I0
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1405412/
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/hardwired/


Angel of Death (2009) Web series, shot with Red One Camera (arri ultra prime lens)
http://www.youtube.com/movie/angel-of-death
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_of_Death_(web_series)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1269734/


Alien Uprising (Video 2008) I hear it's great.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1308930/
http://www.youtube.com/movie/alien-uprising
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/alien_uprising/


Kush (2008) $210,000 budget, indie action film
http://www.youtube.com/movie/kush
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0477138/
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/kush_2008/


Played (2006) $2.5m budget, shot with Canon XL-2, "Originally intended to be a short, the film was shot without the use of a scripted screenplay and the director (Sean Stanek) allowed the actors to improvise a majority of dialogue as he shot the scenes. The picture was shot on location in London and Los Angeles and took three years to complete." Sounds like indie gold!
http://www.youtube.com/movie/played
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Played
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0460902/


Alright, now the reason I picked these is not only because they're free on boobtube.com, not only because they are "low budget", not only because they are pretty indie-ish, but also because a lot of us around here seem to like to try more drama and action shots to possibly compensate for our gross lack of funding for locations and special effects.

Pick a film apart, see what they did, figure out why they suck, and how could we shoot some of the scenes better or maybe even write the story better which is overwhelmingly where most stories fail, no matter the budget.


Another selection resource:
http://www.crackle.com/shows/index.aspx?c=82&name=Movies#o=2&fa=82&fs=&fab=&fg=&fry=2000+2010



EDIT:
Like Crazy looks appropriate if you can find it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Like_Crazy
 
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Damn, I'm slippin! Thanks for the reminder, Ray. Inquiries have been sent, to those three whom are next on the suggestion list.
 
Life happens. :D


If it happens again I'll dock your pay. ;)

I'll get my homework done within the next 12hrs.
 
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Okey doke.

From netflix's indie list, screened from 2006 to current, so far I'm interested in
- 2 Days in Paris : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_Days_in_Paris
Writer/director/actor Julie Delpy
Shot on Sony HDW-F750
Fairly good reviews: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/two_days_in_paris/
I'll guess a $2-5million budget.

- Year of the Dog : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_of_the_Dog_(film)
Writer/director
Got picked up for distribution from 2007 Sundance.
Despite experienced cast it still got bleh reviews: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/year_of_the_dog/
I'll guess another $2-5million budget.


- Day Night Day Night
Writer/Director's first feature (preceded by a dicumentary)
Premiered at the 2006 Directors' Fortnight section of the 58th Annual Cannes Film Festival, where it won the Prix Regards Jeune.
However, critics enjoyed it more than the paying audience.
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/day_night_day_night/
Shot with Sony HDR-FX1 & Sony HDW-F900R, Zeiss DigiPrime Lenses


http://instantwatcher.com/genres/179?earliest_year=2006&latest_year=2012

- Pirates of Treasure Island
* Aternate
Product of The Asylum! I love those goys :rolleyes:
Director's eigth feature.
$1.5m budget & Arriflex Cameras
Lance is my fave film ho. :)
 
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