Which camera should I buy?

I'm not purchasing a camera. But remember when we used to get a new thread, with this at the title, practically on a daily basis?

For those who might be considering their first camera purchase, what's the current advice? Are we still recommending mid-level DSLR or EVIL cameras? Or is Black Magic the new hot shit?

I haven't done a ton of research, but if I were in the market, I'd first look into the pros/cons of the Black Magic Pocket cam. Agree/Disagree?

Personally, because I don't aspire to be a camera operator or cinematographer, I'm perfectly happy with my Samsung Galaxy S7. Every time I record video on it, I'm floored by the quality achieved by a fucking smartphone.

But what if I were a trust-fund baby who wanted an actual camera? What if I were an aspiring DP? What are my first options?
 
I dunno man, Tangerine was shot on three iPhone 5S'. And geez that movie has done better than many others that have been shot on Blackmagics, DSLRs, even REDs...

I don't know that I'd highly recommend shooting only on iPhones, but hey - they make Steadicam specifically designed for iPhones, and you can get lens attachments. Most phones record in 4K these days, and even record 100+fps.

Is the the best tool for the job? Not really. There are plenty of other great and better tools you could use to shoot your film. But can it be done? Of course. Have a look at the old Zacuto shootout and see how well it stacks up.

The point isn't to say 'you should only ever use your phone to shoot'

The point is if you only have access to a phone, dont let it stop you from shooting. The guys who made Blair Witch didn't let the lack of a decent cam stop them from making a film, and the camera in your phone is going to give you a better picture than they got on that movie.

Yes. I share your thoughts, 100%

If it fits your professional and life goals, then absolutely you should invest in good equipment.. That investment doesn't fit my life. But yeah, we're totally on the same page. I'm not trying to tell people not to buy cameras. Heck, I'm trying to get us talking about that agains.

If a camera fits your life, fucking buy one! And this is the thread in which we shall discuss the pros/cons of each camera. :D
 
I'm still shooting on VHS, nobody ever returns my calls. This sucks.

I found a VHS-C video camera that my work was throwing in the trash. The battery doesn't hold a charge, but the camera seems to be fine. Ha ha ha. Not sure what to do with it.

Amazingly, an intern is going to lend out a Panasonic video camera they have that shoots 600 frames per second. I'll hopefully shoot some SCA dudes in the local park smacking each other with swords tonight if it doesn't dump rain. I hear the camera costs about a $1000.
 
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I dunno man, Tangerine was shot on three iPhone 5S'. And geez that movie has done better than many others that have been shot on Blackmagics, DSLRs, even REDs...

I don't know that I'd highly recommend shooting only on iPhones, but hey - they make Steadicam specifically designed for iPhones, and you can get lens attachments. Most phones record in 4K these days, and even record 100+fps.

Is the the best tool for the job? Not really. There are plenty of other great and better tools you could use to shoot your film. But can it be done? Of course. Have a look at the old Zacuto shootout and see how well it stacks up.

The point isn't to say 'you should only ever use your phone to shoot'

The point is if you only have access to a phone, dont let it stop you. The guys who made Blair Witch didn't let the lack of a decent cam stop them from making a film, and the camera in your phone is going to give you a better picture than they got on that movie.

I'm a guy that will always fight for a better camera on a production, and I wouldn't shoot a film with just an iPhone.

But if you want to make a film on your iPhone, all power to you!

I DO know, man. Stop trying to legitimize shitty film tools as a good idea just because they exist. Tangerine was picked up for distribution and had the most talented post-production artists in the world fix it. The 4K smart phone cameras still look terrible, 1080 or worse. Those pin-hole lenses will stop at nothing to ruin your film's look.

Blair Witch used 16mm cameras which isn't exactly ever "not a decent camera", it's a pro move and it worked.

My advice, if you got a great script and a smartphone and are considering using it because it's all you got. Stop. Throw the phone in the dumpster and save up your money for a month to rent something better.

People don't want to watch your film to begin with, why are you making it so easy for them?
 
Shooting anything serious on your cell phone is a terrible idea, unless it's an undercover doc on corruption or forbidden animal sex acts otherwise just the size of a phone is a big liability and the shake factor is going to be distracting to the audience. Ask yourself this- if you had a ton of money would you still use one- of course not, what a fucking joke, huh?

I have to agree with this one. There are minimum standards you can get in video for very little money. Don't go below basic HD. The cost of the camera pales in comparison to the cost in your and other's time and sweat. You'll regret having low quality footage after you shoot some really good scenes.
 
OK, so the camera I'm checking out is a JVC QC PX100. It takes Full HD 60fps video. Unfortunately for slo mo it is 300fps at 640 x 360 resolution. So yeah, not so impressive. 600fps at 320 x 176 resolution, which isn't remotely usable. What the hell? Can't I just cram the memory card with full frames? Give me a bigga buffa!
 
I DO know, man. Stop trying to legitimize shitty film tools as a good idea just because they exist. Tangerine was picked up for distribution and had the most talented post-production artists in the world fix it. The 4K smart phone cameras still look terrible, 1080 or worse. Those pin-hole lenses will stop at nothing to ruin your film's look.

Blair Witch used 16mm cameras which isn't exactly ever "not a decent camera", it's a pro move and it worked.

My advice, if you got a great script and a smartphone and are considering using it because it's all you got. Stop. Throw the phone in the dumpster and save up your money for a month to rent something better.

People don't want to watch your film to begin with, why are you making it so easy for them?

The Blair Witch Project used 8mm tape. Hi8 cameras (remember them?). Nothing at all like 16mm film. So no, they didn't.

Also, if you really think a better camera is what will get people to watch your film, I have bad news for you.

I already said I wouldn't use a phone to shoot a movie. And I think there are much better options out there. But c'mon, you can't say that the camera is the most important part of a film either (and I'm a guy who shoots for a living).

Seriously - check out the Zacuto shootout and see how an old iPhone stacks up against professional cameras. Of course it's not as good, but it's also not bad either. If you're allowing a lack of a 'decent' camera stop you from telling stories, you're a shitty filmmaker. The difference is being aware. If you want your film to have as much chance of success as possible, then of course shoot on something much better than a phone.

But you know what, there are kids out there right now at a camera shop spending $1500 on a DSLR because they think that's what makes you a filmmaker. My advice to those kids is shoot on whatever the hell you have. Unless you specifically want to be a shooter, learning to tell stories, learning framing, learning how to get good performances out of actors, learning how the bits and pieces go together, learning how to work with others and negotiate with others to work with you are all significantly more important that learning what f-stop you should set your aperture at.

Spielberg used Super 8mm cameras when he was young. How is a phone any less legitimate than S8? The fidelity on your phone will be better than S8 in many cases.

Do you also recommend against using GoPros?

People get so damn precious about gear. I'm not and never will actively suggest shooting a film on a phone. All I'm saying is, if you want to tell stories, why not use your phone? It's in your damn pocket right now!

I once lit a shot using only the light of a few iPhones flashes. I was in a situation where I had little else. Yeah, the light isn't perfectly colour correct, and it needed some post correction. But it worked fine. There's nothing wrong with using all the tools at your disposal. I didn't pack up the set and bring everyone back another day, costing the production more money, when I had a perfectly workable solution available to me.
 
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...........Hi8 cameras (remember them?). .............

Yep.
Even shot a 1 minute short with it 14 years ago, because I could get hold of another one before the deadline.
Awefull image, lol.

6 years ago I was contacted by a tailor who hired his hair-dresser to shoot a corporate film, but didn't like the result. (No kidding!)
He asked me to make it look professional... it was shot on Hi8. The colors and contrast screamed single CCD to me.
(And the shots were terrible, and still would be with a better camera.)
I politely reclined. :P


But if that is what you got to become a storyteller: use it!
If that is the look you want: use it!
 
They used 16mm film, 8mm video.

The point is they used Hi8 and the movie is a huge success. Tangerine used iPhones.

Is it harder using a crappier camera? Of course. But that doesn't mean you should stop telling stories. The internet is full of people posting about this or that camera, which is better, which camera is going to make 'my shots looks perfect', and what new camera specs would just be perfect, ensuring that everything someone shoots is amazing.

Yet, they never shoot anything.

I had a friend call me up to shoot their film after the guy they initially booked turned up with his 5D and said 'I don't need lights, the 5D is super clean it high ISO'.

I'd rather someone invest their money into lights and a light meter and use their phone, than continuously search for the latest and greatest camera, as if it's the camera that makes the image. A camera can make an image or break an image, but almost everything else is much more important than whether you shot sometehing on a 5D, RED, Alexa, Blackmagic or iPhone.

No-one's saying anyone should definitely, or always, use their iPhone as an A-cam. All I'm saying is, if your script is tight, your actors are good, and your sound is amazing, your set is designed superbly, and your scene is lit well, what it was shot on may not even enter people's heads.

And that simply not having a DSLR or whatever shouldn't stop you from learning and telling stories. There are plenty of low budget movies out there that couldn't afford higher end cameras or camera processes. That doesn't make them lesser movies, it just means they had to work harder at everything else so that people didn't even think about what it was shot on.

And really, I've seen stuff that looks like it was shot on a phone that was actually shot on a RED Epic. I've seen stuff that was shot on DSLR that cuts with Alexa, and I've seen stuff shot on 1/3" single sensor cameras that looks better than some DSLR stuff. Don't let what you've got, or the lack of, stop you from learning, or shooting.
 
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Yet, they never shoot anything.
That would be me.

All I'm saying is, if your script is tight, your actors are good, and your sound is amazing, your set is designed superbly, and your scene is lit well, what it was shot on may not even enter people's heads.
It'll enter every single filmmaker's head who's watching your film This isn't about what the general public thinks about your film format. I want other filmmaker's to know that I'm technologically superior to them. So yeah, it does matter. It might be the only thing that matters.

That doesn't make them lesser movies

It does make them lesser movies when I find out. I will think less of the filmmaker. I'll think they stole from me.
 
Tangerine was picked up for distribution

So, what you're saying is that it was a resounding success? I'm just glad that I have a new hero to cite. :)

My advice, if you got a great script and a smartphone and are considering using it because it's all you got. Stop. Throw the phone in the dumpster and save up your money for a month to rent something better.

I can only speak for myself, but I'm pretty sure Jax is not advocating that everyone use their camera to make a movie, nor am I. What we're saying is if that's all you got, and you can't get better, that shouldn't stop you from making a movie. Just. Make. Movies. With whatever resources are available to you.

Because the NSA hasn't wiretapped my t2i. And I don't want my Karl Marx fanfiction movie to ruin any future political ambitions I may or may not have.

Haha! Yeah, well my political aspirations have already been ruined, so that doesn't apply to me. :lol:

The Blair Witch Project used 8mm tape. Hi8 cameras (remember them?). Nothing at all like 16mm film. So no, they didn't.

Also, if you really think a better camera is what will get people to watch your film, I have bad news for you.

I already said I wouldn't use a phone to shoot a movie. And I think there are much better options out there. But c'mon, you can't say that the camera is the most important part of a film either (and I'm a guy who shoots for a living).

Seriously - check out the Zacuto shootout and see how an old iPhone stacks up against professional cameras. Of course it's not as good, but it's also not bad either. If you're allowing a lack of a 'decent' camera stop you from telling stories, you're a shitty filmmaker. The difference is being aware. If you want your film to have as much chance of success as possible, then of course shoot on something much better than a phone.

But you know what, there are kids out there right now at a camera shop spending $1500 on a DSLR because they think that's what makes you a filmmaker. My advice to those kids is shoot on whatever the hell you have. Unless you specifically want to be a shooter, learning to tell stories, learning framing, learning how to get good performances out of actors, learning how the bits and pieces go together, learning how to work with others and negotiate with others to work with you are all significantly more important that learning what f-stop you should set your aperture at.

Spielberg used Super 8mm cameras when he was young. How is a phone any less legitimate than S8? The fidelity on your phone will be better than S8 in many cases.

Do you also recommend against using GoPros?

People get so damn precious about gear. I'm not and never will actively suggest shooting a film on a phone. All I'm saying is, if you want to tell stories, why not use your phone? It's in your damn pocket right now!

I once lit a shot using only the light of a few iPhones flashes. I was in a situation where I had little else. Yeah, the light isn't perfectly colour correct, and it needed some post correction. But it worked fine. There's nothing wrong with using all the tools at your disposal. I didn't pack up the set and bring everyone back another day, costing the production more money, when I had a perfectly workable solution available to me.

Jax droppin' knowledge! I couldn't agree more. That's a funny story about lighting a scene with iphones, haha. I like it. Resourcefulness.

This isn't about what the general public thinks about your film format. I want other filmmaker's to know that I'm technologically superior to them. So yeah, it does matter. It might be the only thing that matters.

Haha, you've got a twisted sense of humor dude. I like it.

So, I think I may have already said this, but if I didn't, there are perfectly logical reasons why it makes no sense for me to purchase a camera. In the foreseeable future, I'm only going to be shooting stuff for the 48HFP and youtube. So, who gives a shit? I'm not going to be entering anything into Cannes, won't be shooting anything commercially. I'm personally not interested in becoming a cinematographer, so what motivation do I have to spend money on a camera? None. The videos that I have planned do not require the best video, so I'm just not interested in spending money on that.

I've got other, more important things to worry about financially. Like saving as much money as possible for the production budget of my next feature so that I can consider the possibility of renting a sweet-ass camera, or hiring a qualified sound-person (I'm not sure that both of those things are going to happen, but I have to at least try). So for me, it would actually work against my ultimate goals to spend money on a camera and lenses, etc. People should do what works for them, and if it's not in the cards for them to purchase a camera, they shouldn't allow that to stop them from making movies. And just to clarify, there's no chance in hell I'll be using a phone to shoot the next feature. But can I use it to shoot stuff for YT? I say yes.
 
there are perfectly logical reasons why it makes no sense for me to purchase a camera. [...] I'm personally not interested in becoming a cinematographer, so what motivation do I have to spend money on a camera? None. The videos that I have planned do not require the best video, so I'm just not interested in spending money on that.

It reminds me of when people ask 'how do I get a 'cinematic' look?'

Many are quick to say things like shallower depth of field (and your sensor must be exactly so big to get that), 180 degree shutter, 24fps, 4k, (x) stops of dynamic range etc.

Very few say 'light your scene properly'. And even fewer say 'well actually what makes a film look like a film is everything. It's the costumes and the sets, and the colour palette, and the props, and the acting ability of the actors, and the hair and the make-up, and the lighting and the sound and the VFX. And then, the lens, and then the camera attached to that lens. In the grand scheme of things, the camera is but one small part in what makes a movie look like a movie. As evidenced by the fact that most people watching the latest blockbuster wouldn't be able to pick the difference between the Alexa and the A7s or Blackmagic or 5D used as a crash cam.

But the difference in 'look' between a low budget Blackmagic or A7s or 5D film and a high budget Alexa film can be huge. In fact, even the difference in 'look' between a low budget RED film and a high budget RED film can be huge. Which illustrates my point completely.

I dare you. Be the first filmmaker to shoot a feature film with a Etch-a-sketch.
I wish we had an option to like posts
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