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watch Noire: trailer- dark, action, drama

Hey everyone,
We've released the trailer to our upcoming web series "Noire" today (I guess you could consider it a teaser since we're still in production).

Please feel free to share your thoughts, criticize if you feel the need. A lot of work, physical pain, and free time is going into this production so we hope yall enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0uV3EfpKeY
 
Wearing a 'viewer' hat I immediately wanted to turn off. It looked amateurish and I didn't want to spend time looking at it.

If I put my film maker hat back on, I'd explain it by:

- Colouring was amateurish, composition looked good.
- Some of the shots looked grainy and there were lighting issues beyond the 'noir' look.
- Sound.
- Why is the word noir feminine? As a Francophone, I don't get it. It's odd.

Sure, it is better than 90% of the amateur stuff I see and better than a lot of my previous shoots but as a viewer, I would want to see a more professional look to get me interested in actually watching.

So it's good for an amateur production but needs that little extra to give it a lift.
 
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Wearing a 'viewer' hat I immediately wanted to turn off. It looked amateurish and I didn't want to spend time looking at it.

If I put my film maker hat back on, I'd explain it by:

- Colouring was amateurish, composition looked good.
- Some of the shots looked grainy and there were lighting issues beyond the 'noir' look.
- Sound.
- Why is the word noir feminine? As a Francophone, I don't get it. It's odd.

Sure, it is better than 90% of the amateur stuff I see and better than a lot of my previous shoots but as a viewer, I would want to see a more professional look to get me interested in actually watching.

So it's good for an amateur production but needs that little extra to give it a lift.

First off, thank you for your input. It's appreciated.
The Writer/Director was inspired by the looks of Drive and Blade Runner, more of neo-noir type of stuff. Which is what he's striving for: a neo-noir.

Coloring is something we can work on. Most of the comments we've gotten is "oh it looks so good! like a movie!", thus why I've posted here, where we can get other filmmakers' views.

The title "Noire" and the look of it don't have to do with actual noir style. It's a theme. Noir means "black", it's a darker setting, dark story, and obviously about evil. All coming together with the theme, the story, setting, the meaning, into the title. Now as far as the feminine spelling, from what I understand, the director's idea behind it was to separate it from what most people would think of when they see something with "noir" in it. I think.

Now, if you could nitpick, what in particular could you point out about each point you brought up?
 
Ok, if you want me to nitpick, let's take, for example, something as basic as the title. As a Francophone who was actually educated in France, the title means 'crochet' in French as in the length of a musical note. Confused the hell out of me.

'Noire' with an 'e' on the end in French only means black if it describes a feminine noun. In its current form, it is not an adjective and means 'crochet' i.e. the musical note.

Is this film about a crochet?

At 31 seconds, the focus is soft, at 32 seconds, there is a horrible, blurry, grainy, out-of-focus shot of some guy's face. 34 seconds - the shot is out of focus, 39 seconds the rack focus is poor, at 42 seconds, 54 seconds, swims in and out of focus etc...

All the way through, the noir shots are not noir - they're just dark. I'm guessing that's why the DoP didn't spot all the focusing issues.

Sound: The audio guys will need to weigh in on this one.

Etc...
 
Ok, if you want me to nitpick, let's take, for example, something as basic as the title. As a Francophone who was actually educated in France, the title means 'crochet' in French as in the length of a musical note. Confused the hell out of me.

'Noire' with an 'e' on the end in French only means black if it describes a feminine noun. In its current form, it is not an adjective and means 'crochet' i.e. the musical note.

Is this film about a crochet?

At 31 seconds, the focus is soft, at 32 seconds, there is a horrible, blurry, grainy, out-of-focus shot of some guy's face. 34 seconds - the shot is out of focus, 39 seconds the rack focus is poor, at 42 seconds, 54 seconds, swims in and out of focus etc...

All the way through, the noir shots are not noir - they're just dark. I'm guessing that's why the DoP didn't spot all the focusing issues.

Sound: The audio guys will need to weigh in on this one.

Etc...

Fair enough and thank you for your input. But do understand it is a teaser. I would ask you give at least the first couple episodes a shot when they are released, if you are interested in the least bit. Thank you for your time.
 
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The Writer/Director was inspired by the looks of Drive and Blade Runner, more of neo-noir type of stuff. Which is what he's striving for: a neo-noir.

The noir type feel of Drive and Blade Runner is due to the combination of how they look and sound. The look of say Blade Runner along with the sound of say a student film does not create a noir feel, it creates a no budget, amateur feel. Directors thinking only in terms of "the look" is a common mistake and even more of a mistake if that "look" appears to just be an affectation rather than have any specific meaning.

Except for a few hits during the fight scene at the end of the trailer, some dialogue and the music, the trailer doesn't have any sound. The dialogue is a little inconsistent in places, doesn't reflect the visual environments or provide any variation in aural perspective. The music is typical no budget, bedroom synthesized fayre, again with no depth or sophistication. I'm not saying these issues are easy to solve with little or no budget but some effort/consideration should at least be attempted, rather than just ignoring them and only concentrating on "the look".

But do understand it is a teaser. I would ask you give at least the first couple episodes a shot when they are released, if you are interested in the least bit.

I don't get this statement. The purpose of a trailer is to entice potential viewers to watch the actual episodes/movie. Asking someone to effectively ignore your trailer and watch the episodes anyway defeats the whole purpose of making and posting a trailer in the first place.

Sorry to sound so harsh, hopefully though I've given you some things/areas to think about which might help to make your episodes more engaging entertainment and to stand out from the crowd rather than just be a cinematography exercise reminiscent of parts of Blade Runner.

G
 
The out of focus shots look like they were done in post. Out of focus shots can look really pretty, so maybe for future reference, try to get a lot of out of focus shots for fillers, if you can.

Or if it must be done in post, try 'lens blur' instead of 'fast blur' which is what it looks to me like you guys used. 'Lens blur' looks just a bit more realistic.

good luck with the series :)
 
Also wanted to mention: Don't let the technical critiques harden your soul or make it bitter. You're an artist. Enjoy what you've made while you can. You'll see all the errors with it soon enough. Some of the errors, I'm sure you can see yourself, but can't really do much about. You're not making this series for filmmakers and audio experts. You're making it for people who've nothing to do with film, but MAY like your web series. Share it with friends and family, and other regular people. Take their critique more seriously.

Also, the focus and rack focus issues didn't bother me. They happen all the time, in "real" movies. Go back and watch Predator. Go to the scene, the super important scene, where Arnold jumps into the water, as the alien is chasing him. Try to see if he's in focus or not. I bet most people have never noticed if he's in focus or not. See for yourelf. Shit happens in movies. Yeah, so your stuff ain't perfect. Great. Neither is mine. Neither is Arnold's (John McTiernan's). For myself, I couldn't tell the difference between your trailer and most other youtube videos, most of which have much lower audio/video quality. Your trailer is fine, could be better, but so could anything else. You cut with the footage you've got. What else can you do? Shoot better next time I suppose.

Anyway. Good luck with the series. I mean it :)
 
+
Some of the shots are really good and also image composition. Also it has nice feel of neo noir or even cyberpunk from time to time.
-
Out of focus start : don't use unless you will use it as title background.

I wouldn't take technical feedback too seriously. My previous feature had nothing but negativity in its feedback and it still has 38 000 views in youtube :)

But it is important to try and get better from project to project.
 
Ii me it looked great. I'm not going to nitpick.

It didn't interest me at all though. Found it's trying to be too cool, the dialogue is a bit cheesy and too cool. Could it be a case of all style and no substance?

Just my quick thoughts.
 
The noir type feel of Drive and Blade Runner is due to the combination of how they look and sound. The look of say Blade Runner along with the sound of say a student film does not create a noir feel, it creates a no budget, amateur feel. Directors thinking only in terms of "the look" is a common mistake and even more of a mistake if that "look" appears to just be an affectation rather than have any specific meaning.

Except for a few hits during the fight scene at the end of the trailer, some dialogue and the music, the trailer doesn't have any sound. The dialogue is a little inconsistent in places, doesn't reflect the visual environments or provide any variation in aural perspective. The music is typical no budget, bedroom synthesized fayre, again with no depth or sophistication. I'm not saying these issues are easy to solve with little or no budget but some effort/consideration should at least be attempted, rather than just ignoring them and only concentrating on "the look".



I don't get this statement. The purpose of a trailer is to entice potential viewers to watch the actual episodes/movie. Asking someone to effectively ignore your trailer and watch the episodes anyway defeats the whole purpose of making and posting a trailer in the first place.

Sorry to sound so harsh, hopefully though I've given you some things/areas to think about which might help to make your episodes more engaging entertainment and to stand out from the crowd rather than just be a cinematography exercise reminiscent of parts of Blade Runner.

G
Perhaps I've worded it wrong. The director was inspired by the looks, but applied his own style. Personally (and I've brought this up with him) I feel the title obviously distracts from his idea of the series NOT being shot as a noir film, but as a dark action film (at least among filmmakers). His idea, as I've mentioned, was the term and what goes along with it. He did take elements from neo-noir style, and applied it with his own. That being said, I don't know if collaborating with these elements is a sin among filmmakers, but from my perspective a lot of it looks really good (if I were to speak unbiasedly, as an audience that doesn't know every single rule to cinema - but I'm learning).

I put the trailer together, taking from styles like Christopher Nolan's more recent trailers (some of them have only rising music with different dialogues building to a climax). You easily pointed out my homemade music that I did in my bedroom. Whether it's bad or not, it's the type of music the director wants. Someone pointed out cyberpunk, which it is, along with undertone synth.

And my statement about "watching if you're in the least bit interested" was directed to the first responder, who didn't seem too interested, not to everyone.

I appreciate the time you took to write out your thoughts, they do give areas that we need to keep in mind if we want this to be a success.
The out of focus shots look like they were done in post. Out of focus shots can look really pretty, so maybe for future reference, try to get a lot of out of focus shots for fillers, if you can.

Or if it must be done in post, try 'lens blur' instead of 'fast blur' which is what it looks to me like you guys used. 'Lens blur' looks just a bit more realistic.

good luck with the series :)
You're right about the blur. When I put this together, I didn't have much room to experiment due to time, but in the final cut of the episode, it looks much better.
Also wanted to mention: Don't let the technical critiques harden your soul or make it bitter. You're an artist. Enjoy what you've made while you can. You'll see all the errors with it soon enough. Some of the errors, I'm sure you can see yourself, but can't really do much about. You're not making this series for filmmakers and audio experts. You're making it for people who've nothing to do with film, but MAY like your web series. Share it with friends and family, and other regular people. Take their critique more seriously.

Also, the focus and rack focus issues didn't bother me. They happen all the time, in "real" movies. Go back and watch Predator. Go to the scene, the super important scene, where Arnold jumps into the water, as the alien is chasing him. Try to see if he's in focus or not. I bet most people have never noticed if he's in focus or not. See for yourelf. Shit happens in movies. Yeah, so your stuff ain't perfect. Great. Neither is mine. Neither is Arnold's (John McTiernan's). For myself, I couldn't tell the difference between your trailer and most other youtube videos, most of which have much lower audio/video quality. Your trailer is fine, could be better, but so could anything else. You cut with the footage you've got. What else can you do? Shoot better next time I suppose.

Anyway. Good luck with the series. I mean it :)
Agreed with everything. But, I specifically posted it here to get other filmmakers perspective, knowing that there would be distinct criticism towards everything that goes into making a film (I even asked for it). Not our targeted audience, but it helps us to know specifically what and where we need to watch ourselves to become better at the craft.
But I appreciate what you're saying. Friends, family members and general social media have praised it. But again, what might "oh looks so cool, can't wait to see it!", will have a different outlook to a filmmaker.
+
Some of the shots are really good and also image composition. Also it has nice feel of neo noir or even cyberpunk from time to time.
-
Out of focus start : don't use unless you will use it as title background.

I wouldn't take technical feedback too seriously. My previous feature had nothing but negativity in its feedback and it still has 38 000 views in youtube :)

But it is important to try and get better from project to project.
I think neo-noir/cyberpunk would be a good way to define it. Although cyberpunk might be only the style of music, not the actual content.
The out of focus shots are, in fact, used for the title sequence in the first episode. Probably not the best idea to use them for 1/3 of the trailer, but that's a mistake to learn from.
Although, I like technical feedback for filmmaking, we can learn from it. Appreciated.
Ii me it looked great. I'm not going to nitpick.

It didn't interest me at all though. Found it's trying to be too cool, the dialogue is a bit cheesy and too cool. Could it be a case of all style and no substance?

Just my quick thoughts.
Thanks for looking at it, maybe once we get further into production and more footage, I'll attempt to make another trailer.

I hope I haven't come across as trying to "fight back" on your comments. I feel since we are all, at the least, interested in film, I can explain some things and contribute to a discussion. Thanks for yalls' time!
 
I put the trailer together, taking from styles like Christopher Nolan's more recent trailers (some of them have only rising music with different dialogues building to a climax).

You can't have it both ways! The Nolan style of trailer (like say Dark Knight Rises or Interstellar) has a very dynamic, dramatic, sophisticated, big orchestral type score which very strongly punctuates and integrates with the visuals/edits, this results in it only needing a bit of dialogue and the odd sound FX (otherwise it would be too cluttered and confusing). Alternatively, if you have a very simple/unsophisticated, less dramatic and less well integrated score, you need to add drama, pace and sophistication with sound design.

The director was inspired by the looks, but applied his own style. .... Whether it's [the music] bad or not, it's the type of music the director wants.

Well that's the point I was trying to make previously and what I don't get! I can understand going for the sophisticated and dramatic look of a film like Blade Runner but what I don't get is then completely contradicting that "look" with a deliberately undramatic and unsophisticated aural style. The result isn't "a style" but a contradiction of styles, it gives the impression of something which is trying too hard to look cool, sophisticated and stylish rather than actually being cool, sophisticated and stylish. If your goal is to make a "dark action film" then it has to feel like a dark action film and that means sounding like a dark action film, not just looking like one. As Alcove Audio is fond of quoting, "sound is half the experience"!

G
 
You can't have it both ways! The Nolan style of trailer (like say Dark Knight Rises or Interstellar) has a very dynamic, dramatic, sophisticated, big orchestral type score which very strongly punctuates and integrates with the visuals/edits, this results in it only needing a bit of dialogue and the odd sound FX (otherwise it would be too cluttered and confusing). Alternatively, if you have a very simple/unsophisticated, less dramatic and less well integrated score, you need to add drama, pace and sophistication with sound design.



Well that's the point I was trying to make previously and what I don't get! I can understand going for the sophisticated and dramatic look of a film like Blade Runner but what I don't get is then completely contradicting that "look" with a deliberately undramatic and unsophisticated aural style. The result isn't "a style" but a contradiction of styles, it gives the impression of something which is trying too hard to look cool, sophisticated and stylish rather than actually being cool, sophisticated and stylish. If your goal is to make a "dark action film" then it has to feel like a dark action film and that means sounding like a dark action film, not just looking like one. As Alcove Audio is fond of quoting, "sound is half the experience"!

G

Understood and agreed. On my next attempt at a trailer, I'll keep your advice in mind. We have permission from an artist (Carpenter Brut) to use his music, and perhaps this may be a better route.
 
I wanted to clarify something. I only wanted to say, don't take critiques so seriously that you become bitter.

I don't want to mislead you into feeling too good either :). Both Gorilla and APE make good points, and their standards are not arbitrary. APE's is definitely based on his professional experience, so in general I take his input and suggestions very seriously. But just put everything in context is what I was trying to say. For a youtube web series, it's really difficult to have an expectation of professionalism, too far beyond what you guys did, for most filmmakers, although lots of youtube videos are phenomenal.

But of course we may not want to stay with youtube forever and then you'll have to take technical critiques, specially about sound and music, more seriously. For myself, I definitely take sound and music 10 times more seriously now than I did before (APE would probably shake his head and say "obviously not seriously enough" heh, heh), but in general I use youtube to experiment. And I try to put critiques in context. If your intention is to make a web series for youtube, I'm not sure you need anything more than bedroom music. If your intention with this series is something beyond youtube, then yes, both Gorilla and APE would be more important to listen to than viewers like myself.

So in summation... put all the critiques in context. And in general, take the audio critiques more seriously. For youtube, almost everything seems fine (almost). But beyond youtube, Audio most definitely seems to have very specific standards. But of course, I understand that there are some critiques that you can't do anything about, as the film has already been shot and cut. So... put everything in context I guess.

Cheers :)

EDIT: I was just thinking of a youtube interview series that I just did (one of the purposes was just to test the use of white backgrounds, and the other purpose was to see what kind of sound I got and if I could play with them in post). Now it doesn't look all that great, and it doesn't sound all that great either, but it's some of the best sound that I've ever gotten on my own. In the second interview series, I lit the background brighter, and the sound still kind of sucked. In the third interview series, I plan to light the background even brighter and put the microphone a lot closer to the subject, and maybe use lavs too. That's what youtube is for. For experimenting. At least for me it is. So put the critiques in context is what I'm saying.
 
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Great work so far. I'm a huge fan of BR and continually study the cinematography. I haven't seen the other film. The main thing that concerns me with this piece is how much this feels like video, but otherwise the cinematography works to tell the story. Some shots are strong and dramatic with high key/fill ratios, while others seem flat and without depth - characters just blend into the background. I get where you're coming from with the highly saturated light, but its overwhelming to me and doesn't feel motivated by anything. You have more chromatic contrast than Im used than most work. I bet some of this could be tamed with some careful grading work to soften the rolloff from highs to mids. Maybe to help get some of the shots to sit together better. The lights also don't seem to have much texture, just very standard soft boxes (extremely obvious in sunglasses shot) It just feels too staged, playing the lights off the envrionment could help a lot rather than direct light.

But seriously, I only offer this as friendly critique, take it with a grain of salt - you've accomplished much more than I have by actually executing your vision and that's quite an accomplishment.
 
For youtube, almost everything seems fine (almost). But beyond youtube, Audio most definitely seems to have very specific standards.

Hmmm, I'm not sure I agree entirely with your post. Certainly intention is the deciding factor but I wouldn't draw the line specifically at Youtube. If the OP's intention is purely an experiment then yes, anything goes and my critique/advice would only be potentially interesting or helpful for future projects (with a different intention). If the OP's intension for his web series is to stand out from the crowd and get noticed then I believe my critique/advice is very valid. Granted Youtube has no specific technical audio requirements, as do commercial distributors/broadcasters, but the critique/advice I gave was not about technical audio/music requirements, it was entirely about aesthetics. With the constantly growing ocean of content on Youtube and similar platforms, it's increasingly difficult to get noticed and the aesthetic quality bar is rising proportionately. I don't believe that almost anything/everything (aesthetically) is fine, at least not anymore and if getting noticed or a significant number of followers is the intention. Just my opinion though.

G
 
the acting is what is letting this down, none of them fit the part apart from the girl at the desk.

trailer? looks more like snippets of shots rather than it telling me what its about.
 
Complements do nothing to help a project. They make you smile, but criticisms make something better. That said, I like this video. The sound is off in some places. That's about all I noticed. And maybe buy some squibs. Squibs are amazing. Over all, it looks good! :) Keep it up
 
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