Hope this is not the wrong place to ask this. I did a shoot as a cameraman lately which involved a lot of running around with a heavy camera and somehow I lost the lens cap and now the production company wants me to take that cost off my salary. I was hired as a freelance (no written contract) and the company provided the equipment so in my mind its the company that should take this cost... Its not about the cost but the principal. What do you guys think? What is normal?
Lost equipment - cost?
- Thread starter OP5
- Start date
With no contract you'll probably have to eat the cost. It's case of "He said/she said." It will most likely cost more to fight it than the lens cap is worth.
Eh, I'd jut eat the cost. It's a lens cap - it's not very expensive, and if it's demonstrably your fault either in whole or in large part, I think it's probably the decent thing to do, assuming production doesn't have insurance.
If you hired a camera from me and returned it without a lens cap, I would be pretty annoyed. That being said, lost equipment is what insurance is for - which you generally pay an extra fee when hiring to cover the insurance on the equipment (and if you don't it sets out in your hire contract how liable you will be - usually very).
A lens cap is awkward as it's not really worth claiming on insurance - the excess would basically pay for a new one.
Regardless of who should be the one to pay, I think simply sucking it up and paying it is better reputationally than trying to fight it. Offering in the first place makes you a good guy who offered to even pay for the lost lens cap (they won't always take you up on your offer). Fighting it makes you the guy who wouldn't even pay for the lens cap he lost!
We all make mistakes but being mature about it will ingratiate you much more. I haven't been in the situation a lot, but the few times I have, I've been profusely apologetic and offered to pay for the small things broken or lost. Most people understand it's not really your fault and that things happen.
If you hired a camera from me and returned it without a lens cap, I would be pretty annoyed. That being said, lost equipment is what insurance is for - which you generally pay an extra fee when hiring to cover the insurance on the equipment (and if you don't it sets out in your hire contract how liable you will be - usually very).
A lens cap is awkward as it's not really worth claiming on insurance - the excess would basically pay for a new one.
Regardless of who should be the one to pay, I think simply sucking it up and paying it is better reputationally than trying to fight it. Offering in the first place makes you a good guy who offered to even pay for the lost lens cap (they won't always take you up on your offer). Fighting it makes you the guy who wouldn't even pay for the lens cap he lost!
We all make mistakes but being mature about it will ingratiate you much more. I haven't been in the situation a lot, but the few times I have, I've been profusely apologetic and offered to pay for the small things broken or lost. Most people understand it's not really your fault and that things happen.
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How?
If I hire you to shoot something for me, and I give you my camera, and you subsequently lose the lens cap... How is it my fault that the lens cap is lost? Why should I have to cover the cost of the lost lens cap? You lost it.
Do you want to work with these guys again?
It's a lens cap, man - I can't see how you could possibly be paying more than around $80 to replace it. A still lens cap costs around $5 to replace; a Cooke mini S4/i lens cap costs around $40 to replace.
Are you really going to make that big a deal over that small amount of money..?
To be perfectly honest, I think it's worse if you didn't hire the camera. If you hire it, you've at least traded some money or similar value for the hire of the camera, so a missing lens cap isn't so bad as you've probably paid much more than the cost of a lens cap to hire the equipment.
Instead, someone's paying you to do a job and you've lost their lens cap, and you don't think you should be responsible for the replacement of it?
If you gave your camera to someone to shoot something and it came back missing a part, would you expect them to replace it?
If someone hired my camera, brought it back without a lens cap and said 'I'm so sorry man, I'm not sure where it is, feel free to charge me for it' I'd probably absorb the cost myself. Someone who argues with me, I'm going to want them to pay.
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Cause it's their project and they were the producers and they choose to hired me to use their equipment. If they think I did such a bad job loosing a lens cap, they can choose simply not to hire me again. Thats how it works. It was also a very stressful shoot, not enough camera assistants, lots of running around in different locations and change of plans. That's how lens caps gets lost, and should be the producers responsibility.
Weather its worth arguing about and the situation where I have hired a camera that you keep bringing up are different discussions.
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Sounds like plenty of under-budgeted, under-scheduled shoots. I don't see how it's different discussions. Losing the lens cap and doing a good job are two separate things.
Do you want to work with these guys again? If so, absorb the cost and let it be. Do you want to fight over the cost of a $5 lens cap because you don't think it's your fault? Go ahead.
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WHERE exactly did at say that????
Yes, I understand this is your advice since you said it three times now even though its not what I asked for.
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You asked for opinions and what you thought was normal. I gave you that.
I really don't understand why you would ask what people thought and whether it was normal and then get annoyed when someone tells you what they think and what is normal.
Doesn't make sense to me - but I guess you were after people to back up your point of view rather than honestly asking
Peace.
You asked for opinions and what you thought was normal. I gave you that.
I really don't understand why you would ask what people thought and whether it was normal and then get annoyed when someone tells you what they think and what is normal.
Doesn't make sense to me - but I guess you were after people to back up your point of view rather than honestly asking
Peace.
Basically what you are saying is "Its your fault no matter what the circumstances were and don't argue with the production company over it regardless of who might be right from a legal standpoint cause you will loose future job opportunities and this is how it normally works and there's nothing wrong with that". I thank you for your opinion but yes, I happen to disagree with you. I already stated in my first post that it was not about the money but the principal, I happen to believe in workers standing up for their rights and not let producers screw them over out of fear of loosing work. Interestingly enough, Im getting completely different replies at another forum I also posted the same question in.
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Have you ever seen Judge Judy? It's an American TV show which is so popular that star is paid about $50m a year. The basis of the programme is the settlement of disputes between litigants which have some thought in their mind about who's to blame for something and who is therefore responsible for baring the resultant cost. Sometimes, what's in the mind of a litigant is so bizarre, so far from normal, it's almost impossible to understand how they arrived at such a thought without being a complete imbecile and, almost impossible to understand how they survived to adulthood with such misunderstanding of normal/acceptable.
In answer to your question, "What is normal"? It's normal that if you hire, borrow or are lent some equipment to use, then it's your responsibility to return that equipment in the same condition as it was given to you. The only exceptions are if you have a mutually agreed contract which specifically absolves you from this "normal" responsibility or if you can prove that the damage/loss was in no way your fault. You have admitted that you had no such contract and that it was you who lost the lens cap! What you have in your mind and the "principle" you think you're fighting for is not normal, in fact, it's quite bizarre and probably even worth a Judge Judy segment!
G
If I supply equipment to someone I expect it back in the same condition I gave it to them in. Smae thing if I borrow or rent something it is expected to come back to the owner in the same condition I got it from them. It's your fault the cap is lost. Man up and pay for it. Geez.
Order a new lenscap online. Have it delivered to them or bring it.
Let them pay you the agreed fee.
This way they don't have do any effort to replace the cap and you get to be the man that fixes the things he accidentally broke. They will see you as a great guy to work with: serious and reliable.
Unless this is the perfect opportunity to get rid of your client. Then tell them you blame them and that you never want to work with them again
I know it can be frustrating to work on a chaotic set; too many things to keep track of. Create habits like always putting the cap in the same pocket/bag. Although that can be a challenge when it's hot weather.
'Principals cots money' a lawyer once told me to illustrate that sometimes you need to be practicle when it is about little things. I'm not saying you should let other people step on your values, but in this case you'll propably lose more than you gain.
Take a deep breath and relax.
Let them pay you the agreed fee.
This way they don't have do any effort to replace the cap and you get to be the man that fixes the things he accidentally broke. They will see you as a great guy to work with: serious and reliable.
Unless this is the perfect opportunity to get rid of your client. Then tell them you blame them and that you never want to work with them again
I know it can be frustrating to work on a chaotic set; too many things to keep track of. Create habits like always putting the cap in the same pocket/bag. Although that can be a challenge when it's hot weather.
'Principals cots money' a lawyer once told me to illustrate that sometimes you need to be practicle when it is about little things. I'm not saying you should let other people step on your values, but in this case you'll propably lose more than you gain.
Take a deep breath and relax.
In this case it seems to me you wanted opinions that you share. You got
that on another forum. So I suppose you will take their advice and fight
the power by refusing to replace the lens cap.
I also believe that workers should stand up for their rights. You lost some
of the gear that was put in your control. I believe it is your responsibility
to replace the piece of gear you lost. I take it you think it's the employers
responsibility to replace the lens cap that you lost. I disagree. It's a matter
of principal, not money; YOU lost the lens cap, YOU should replace it.
I, too, am a camera operator. I do not use my camera. So I'm curious; why
do you feel it is their responsibility to replace the lens cap that you lost?