Camera advice anyone? please lemme know

hello all.
I need some serious guidance here.
I am an amateur filmmaker, and until now I have only worked with consumer camcorders like the Canon Zr100 or like cameras.

Well, I want to upgrade, and I have about a thousand dollars to 1,200 to do it.
What should I get? What would you get and for what reasons please.
I admit I want to get a digital camera that can give me more of the professional look that some of these larger cameras have. They seem more like film.
For example, 28 days later was shot on a Canon XL1 camera, and I see I can find these USED for under 1000 dollars…but they are used.
The newer cameras I see are way more than that in order to get that kind of visual imagery.
SO I am aware it will not be perfect, but there has to be a good step or two up.

I like the fact that I had a 3 year warrantee on my previous camera and after 3 years I could pay additional money and extend the warrantee. I took good care of it and sent it in at the end of every year for maintenance. Well, I doubt used cameras offer that kind of security, but new cameras cost so much more if you want to get that professional look to your video.

Can anyone recommend where I should look and what exactly I should be looking for? ANY input is greatly appreciated. Please let me know.
I realize I will have to compromise one way or another.
I don't own a laptop, but I have a great imac to do my editing on. When filming, I need info storage in another way. Although, I have been proud of my projects before and they have received good feedback…I suppose I am an artist more than a person knowledgeable about camera terminology or science. Please advise. I am SO needing help here.
 
Good 'ol Uncle Bob has to put in his usual comment; have you budgeted for sound? When it comes to narrative work your visuals will only look as good as they sound.

Sound is half of the experience.
 
My favorite sub-$5000 camera is the Panasonic GH2. With the bitrate hacks available it beats out every other camera under 5k that I have used. You can pick one up from Amazon for under $800 the last time I checked. Of course, going this route would require recording sound separately. My advice would be to not skimp on sound equipment.
 
If I had between $1 - 1.2k to spend on a new set-up:

$350 - Canon Vixia HF M40 Camcorder
http://usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/...nsumer_camcorders/vixia_hf_m40#Specifications
- 1/3" CMOS sensor
- 10X Optical Zoom
- Flash Card memory + 2 x SD Memory Card expansion
- 24p Cinema Mode
- Headphones, microphone pin jacks
- HDMI output
- 43mm filter mount
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-New-C...deo_Cameras&hash=item45feff062b#ht_500wt_1413

$4 - 43MM-52MM step up ring
http://www.ebay.com/itm/43MM-52MM-4...gs_Holders&hash=item35b6deaaf3#ht_2724wt_1396

$8 - 52MM UV lens + Snap Cover + Hood (that pen thing is... discretionary. :)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/52MM-Snap-C...ra_Filters&hash=item5647020fa3#ht_3327wt_1396

< $300 - Tascam DR100 Portable Digital Recorder
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tascam-DR10...ltDomain_0&hash=item35b6af4a9d#ht_5656wt_1396

< $300 - Rode NTG-2 Shotgun Condenser Microphone
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=rode+ntg-2&_frs=1&_sop=15&_trksid=p3286.c0.m359

< $100 - Microphone boom pole w/ shock mount

XLR cable
Camera Bag



I'm going to guess you already have "sufficient" tripod.

GL!
 
I had a lot of fun working with the Sony NEX VG10 camcorder on Arkham Sanitarium - great picture, interchangable lenses, amazing DoF and really good low-light (shot some scenes just with candle light). I believe the VG20's out now which improves on the 10 a great deal (and means you might be able to pick up a 10 cheap).

Just remember, it looks like a camcorder but it's actually a DSLR inside so you still have to deal with moire/jello etc.

*edit* here's the camera as we had it rigged for filming.
 
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i got a canon vixia hf100, got a lens kit that cam with a wide angle lens, fisheye lens, and telephoto lens, plus a filter kit, an additional cleaning kit, and a memory card... takes some pretty great footage... got the whole setup for about $950 total. i'm very happy with it.
 
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Thanks everyone for the info....I responded to some private message, but I decided that might be rude...so I comment on here instead.
Please respond and through as much info out at possible. Thanks so much!

What do you want to shoot? Some cameras are better for nature films, others are better for narratives, others interviews, etc..

I want to shoot a horror movie I am currently writing, with some actors I have worked with before.
I want it to LOOK that 'movie-look' as much as possible.
I am not sure what causes that though. It isn't just high def..

Everyone says the lens are what add sense of depth, but if you take a 300 dollar camera and put a lens on it, it doesn't become like these other cameras such as the suggested Sony NEX VG10. I want to get that camera...but it is still a little high in price.
The video LOOKS like a movie. I am not interested in still pictures at all. This is the look I want.
Is there any other camera comparable to this look?


I had a lot of fun working with the Sony NEX VG10 camcorder on Arkham Sanitarium - great picture, interchangable lenses, amazing DoF and really good low-light (shot some scenes just with candle light). I believe the VG20's out now which improves on the 10 a great deal (and means you might be able to pick up a 10 cheap).

Just remember, it looks like a camcorder but it's actually a DSLR inside so you still have to deal with moire/jello etc.

*edit* here's the camera as we had it rigged for filming.

Dude...I look forward to seeing this movie. I am a horror fan and I love Lovecraft. This looks to be an actual good adaptation of his work....much like Dagon.
I LOVE the look of the movie too! I would get this camera, but it might be just slightly too high for me. What gives it that MOVIE look and do other cameras share the attribute?
It can't be JUST the lenses cause I can always buy lenses....what else?

I am not interested in still photo...only video.
I will look around, but this helps alot. Man....this looks to be perfect.....just a bit too out of my pricerange. damn

i got a canon vixia hf100, got a lens kit that cam with a wide angle lens, fisheye lens, and telephoto lens, plus a filter kid, an additiona cleaning kit, and a memory card... takes some pretty great footage... got the whole setup for about $950 total. i'm very happy with it.

There is damn good looking video from this camcorder. It is definatly to be considered, but it might not have the look as well as the others...and I am so unsure how this darn technology works anyway.
 
Instead of buying equipment you could hire a DP with a camera and a production sound mixer with gear. This way you are working with folks who are intimately familiar with the equipment with which they are working - no learning curve for you and no basic technical worries; you can just direct.
 
Dude...I look forward to seeing this movie. I am a horror fan and I love Lovecraft. This looks to be an actual good adaptation of his work....much like Dagon.
I LOVE the look of the movie too! I would get this camera, but it might be just slightly too high for me. What gives it that MOVIE look and do other cameras share the attribute?
It can't be JUST the lenses cause I can always buy lenses....what else?

I am not interested in still photo...only video.
I will look around, but this helps alot. Man....this looks to be perfect.....just a bit too out of my pricerange. damn.

Firstly, thanks for the praise :) I set out to make the Lovecraft movie I'd always wanted to see and whilst compromises had to be made I'm pretty happy with it :)

As to the look, I knew I wanted something as cinematic as possible so that meant interchangeable lenses. We used 3 - a 50mm f1.4 - our 'hero' lens (with phenomenal low-light performance), a 16mm f2.8 - for wide angle and the NEX's 18-200mm (for hand-held mostly, this lens has excellent built-in stabilization).

We could have used a regular camcorder with a Letus (or similar) adaptor to use DSLR lenses but I'm not a fan of light-loss you get by using these - and as we were filming indoors mostly, getting enough light to the sensor was a constant struggle (unless we were using the 50mm f1.4).

The great depth of field comes from that 50mm lens combined with the large sensor the NEX has (APS-C, close to Super 35, which is the size the RED cameras use but not as big as the Canon 5D).

The clips you saw were shot at 25fps progressive (the UK standard), 24fps is generally preferred by purists for the 'film' look but the difference between that and 25 is neglible. US cameras generally shoot 30fps - this also looks fine (and certainly 'filmic' enough) - just remember, you want to shoot progressive NOT interlaced - that'll give you the 'home movie' look.

Ultimately, we could have used a 5D or a 7D and gotten similar results (better, I suspect with the 5D) but the form factor of the camera was also important - the VG10 is designed to be used as a camcorder - you don't need to hack the firmware to shoot more than 5 minutes, you can remove the on-screen display for recording to a Nanoflash (or an Atomos Ninja like the one we used). That design was just more practical and robust for me whilst filming.

As a final point, all of that footage you saw has been post-processed - it's not final yet but it's had noise-reduction in Neat Image for Sony Vegas, a Telecine Net Warm look (amongst others) from Magic Bullet and other effects such as vignetting etc. - what I got from the camera was very different (but the good starting point I needed).

If you're tight on cash, I think a 7D with hacked firmware and some good lenses will work for you - just get the fastest lenses you can afford and if you can get your hands on a 50mm f1.4/f1.8 then you'll be able to get much of the look that we did on Arkham. Just remember, post is equally important - you're not going to be screening the footage you shot - that's only the beginning.

Also, the advice to hire a DP with his/her own kit is a good one. I shot, directed and lit Arkham and it's real challenge - too much work really. And it stops you spending time with your actors to get the best performance you can out of them. I was lucky, my cast were fairly experienced and very professional but if I have one regret about the shoot it's that I didn't spend more time working with them.

That said, there is an advantage to buying your own gear - you can sell it again afterwards :) The NEX cost me £1,700 ($2,650) when I bought it but after the shoot I sold it for £1,000 making the cost of the camera only £700 - I couldn't have hired a DP for the 13 day shoot for that kind of money ;)

Good luck!
 
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Thank you so much. This gives me so much info to work with. I am gonna have to google some stuff to learn more about this cause I am a bit of a layman here, but you took the time to address all my concerns.
Thanks bro.
Can't wait to see the movie!
 
I was going to get the Sony NEX VG10, but as the numbers kept adding up, I realized I needed to go with my original price range. I was going to consider buying from Onequality.com. I might make a post about it. Is anyone familiar?

I DID make another post about sensor size, and what makes the MOVIE or FILM look when it comes to sensors. However, I am looking at onequality.com and I happen to notice some movie camcorders from all different size lenses, sensors, and options. So I am a bit overwhelmed. Damn....well, I am sticking around 1000 to 1200 dollars at least.
IT also seems in order to get the film quality, the lens on the camera needs to be a 35 mm lens....(in general) am I understanding this right? (I am using laymens terms because I am still thinking in them....I am still learning. lol Thanks to all of you for being so helpful.

Now...some cameras (which happen not to have large sensors) aren't HD....but they still have made movies with that MOVIE look. Should a current film maker stick it out for HD?
The movie look is even more important to me than anything else.
so...if anyone thinks of a camcorder that is a few years old, but is made for that movie look, I wish I could buy something that has the lens I need already for that basic movie look (which I think is the 35mm lens)..even though I know I will need to get other lenses for other shots. The one I would like the camcorder to come with should be one I can use to help create the very effect which is the reason I bought the camcorder in the first place.
Any input? Please assist. I am trying to figure out what works so I know what to buy.
Peace
P.S.
Should I even CONSIDER the consumer cameras like Canon Vixia? Lewis recommended it, and I appreciate the advice... but I didn't consider it because of the smaller sensor and I don't know what kind of lens to get....however CanonXL1 (the professional camcorder) has the same size sensor...and was used to make 28 days later....sigh...trying to understand the details. lol I know I will order soon. Thanks for advice guys!
So far I am trying to choose between a 35mm comparable sensor and 35mm lens in the camera, or a camera that doesn't meet those requirments, but material from it seems to have a movie look for some reason in the past..don't know why....HD or not HD...trying to think...darn..darn..darn.
 
p.s.
Some of you recommened the 7d...but I am not into going for the 7d and using it to shoot video...thanks for the suggestion, but not my thing...it really isn't cheaper and it is a photo camera that takes video, not a Camcorder that shoots pictures at times. I am not even interested in still shots...only video and I like the camcorder set up with sound on it too. just by the by....still appreciate the input though. Thanks guys!
 
Just posted in your other thread.

28 Days Later was made on an XL-1... Years ago. It's way outdated tech now and even back then was a bit of a long shot. It also had 3CCD's (at 1/3" I think?) doing each Red Green and blue instead of one Chip doing all three. The higher end CMOS sensors doing all 3 colors is ok (and actually film like considering there's only one frame of film) but not a cheap CMOS or single CCD.

35mm Lens is referring (generally) to a photo lens or a lens made for 35mm film. The focal length is what they talk about when selling a lens. Every focal length is good and has it's uses.
 
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I own the HF S20, which is the HF S200 with a 32GB internal flash drive.
The camera performs very well. My only gripes with it is that I would prefer a higher bitrate than 24mpbs(although that's not bad), and the lack of an ability to have interchangeable lenses. I use an old screw on Canon gl2 wide angle lens on it and the image is great, but it's nothing like having interchangeable prime lenses.

I also have a Rode NTG-2 shotgun mic, it's awesome.
 
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