working out who / what is required for your feature film crew

danielp said:

I think you build a plan that works for you and your expectations.
There are many films being made around the world using very little resources and crew that are true gems.
And there are well produced films that don't go anywhere or are "crap" like you say.
And viceversa.
At the end it's all about content and how it's portrayed; what techniques you use, etc.

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Well... uh.... yeah...

The point, we are repeatedly trying to make, is that with a very small (under 10) crew you create a certain set of conditions that can cause the train to run right off the rails. It has to be the "right" film. There are lots of films you just aren't going to be able to make that way. There absolutely are films you can successfully make with a skeleton crew, but you better be sure you have one. Also, those few people you have better be the "right" people, extremely talented and extremely dedicated.

To your point, if the script sucks, the acting sucks, the director has no idea what he's doing, it doesn't matter if the crew is 5 or 500 it's still going to be a bad movie.

danielp said:

Without specifics we're just speculating. I'm not trying to be right;

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Exactly. I'm not asking you to be right - I'm not trying to be right.
Just speculation. Just curiosity. And you evaded my question.

danielp said:

I was just trying to understand how you came up with that list when no one mentioned budget, type of movie, number of locations, what kind of locations, etc.

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I came up that basic minimum crew based on several years of
experience as a producer, director and crew person. Not perfect
for every single production but a basic, general minimum number
of crew needed for a smooth shoot.

One can expand from there depending on budget, type of movie,
number of locations, what kind of locations, etc. Or one can use
far fewer people. Thus my curiosity and my question to you.

danielp said:

Maybe I shouldn't have said "large", but we never defined "low budget". Maybe I'm thinking less than 20k, and you're thinking 250k, where you can afford the crew you described. We never defined pay rate, or anything. I wanted to get to those details, that's all.

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If you had asked a different, more specific question I would have
answered differently. I'm thinking less than 20k. At least one person
for each necessary job. My list covers that. So I was curious which
of those crew positions you would do without. That's all.

Gonzo_Entertainment said:

Well... uh.... yeah...

...It has to be the "right" film. There are lots of films you just aren't going to be able to make that way.

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You're absolutely right. If you're making a film with a small crew, the type of film, and how you make it (how you light it, how you film it, the equipment, etc.), has to all fit. You are limited to certain type of films, no argument there.

The question is how, within all those limitations, you make the best possible film... and to me (and others who are doing it this way) what works very well is not to start with the script (the hollywood way), but to start backwards with a concept of your story, and then you find the locations and settings where you think that story would take place, etc. etc. and then you build your script around your assets (including at actors). Not only that process gives you a ton of ideas, but the film ends up much more organic and fitting... And this works great if you are a visual thinker, like most writer/directors are (or writer/director teams).

It would be silly to say I'm going to use a crew of 4 to shoot an action film with a ton of equipment and several locations... You'll end up with crap... But a horror story in 1 or 2 locations with a few actors... most likely.

It's why I have been in semi-retirement for the past 18 months. There aren't any films I have any interest in making that can be made for the budget I have available right now ($5000 to $10,000). I either have to find that film (or the idea that interests me so I can write that film) or I have to come up with the $500,000 that would be my minimum budget to even think about a feature of the screenplays I already have written. There are films I could make for $10K, but I have no interest in making those films. Not a judgement on that type of film, just a recognition of what interests me.

Gonzo_Entertainment said:

It's why I have been in semi-retirement for the past 18 months. There aren't any films I have any interest in making that can be made for the budget I have available right now ($5000 to $10,000). I either have to find that film (or the idea that interests me so I can write that film) or I have to come up with the $500,000 that would be my minimum budget to even think about a feature of the screenplays I already have written. There are films I could make for $10K, but I have no interest in making those films. Not a judgement on that type of film, just a recognition of what interests me.

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I understand - it's not for everyone... but if you're going for 500k (such a complicated amount for multiple reasons) you should probably consider to go for 1.5 ~ 2M, since you open the door to more interesting financing options and you can attract reputable sales agents, etc.... I would entertain that idea... and, I know you're not interested , but you could in parallel go for a 10~20K production to stay in the game, while you work out the other one.

danielp said:

I understand - it's not for everyone... but if you're going for 500k (such a complicated amount for multiple reasons) you should probably consider to go for 1.5 ~ 2M, since you open the door to more interesting financing options and you can attract reputable sales agents, etc.... I would entertain that idea... and, I know you're not interested , but you could in parallel go for a 10~20K production to stay in the game, while you work out the other one.

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You're right on the $500K no man's land. It's actually better to spend either way less or go ahead and go for 2 to 3 million.

I'm probably just going to get out of the production side permanently and stick to screenwriting. Where I am at right now, and with the experiences I have had, $20K would be about the budget I'd want for a 12 minute short.

directorik said:

...

If you had asked a different, more specific question I would have
answered differently. I'm thinking less than 20k. At least one person
for each necessary job. My list covers that. So I was curious which
of those crew positions you would do without. That's all.

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Ok, fair enough, I would probably use something like this:

DP/operator
1st AD (multiple tasks)
script supervisor (this is a very critical task, but I would assign other tasks when not shooting)
gaffer (experienced)
key grip (experienced)
grip/electric
audio recordist (experienced)
boom op
props/makeup artist (I happen to know an excellent one who does both)
2 PA’s (to help around, including catering etc.)

I would reduce the equipment to a bare minimum, including lighting. Instead of a dolly I would use a mini-dolly. I would design the lighting around using natural lighting and enhancing existing lighting. I would make sure I do acoustics tests to guarantee quality sound. All this would greatly depend on the "quality" of the location. Not all locations work. This is why I would pick locations where you can actually get away with minimum lighting setups, and minimum complications. Of course another parameter in the equation is the type of movie you're shooting. For 20K I would not just accept any location or any story; it all has to fit... but I make it "all" fit before the script is finalized.

I can go into a lot of details but I hope I addressed your question.

danielp said:

Ok, fair enough, I would probably use something like this:

DP/operator
1st AD (multiple tasks)
script supervisor (this is a very critical task, but I would assign other tasks when not shooting)
gaffer (experienced)
key grip (experienced)
grip/electric
audio recordist (experienced)
boom op
props/makeup artist (I happen to know an excellent one who does both)
2 PA’s (to help around, including catering etc.)

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Thanks for taking the time. And not much different than my list. You have
nine I have fourteen (without PA's). You have one person doing makeup,
costumes, props and set dressing – I have two. Your grip/electric crew
three is mine is five. I have one person dedicated to getting food for the
cast and crew – you pass that to a PA.

I have found that no matter how excellent the person is, keeping track of
props and set dressing takes time away from applying and touching up make
up which slows down the process. A mini-dolly takes the same amount of
time to set up and rehearse as a dolly – in many cases more. Over the years
I have found that having one person dedicated to food (craft service and
bringing in meals) saves time. And I tend to use lighting rather than chasing
natural light. I can keep control over the light for a longer period of time so
my grip/electric crew is two people larger than yours.

The lower the budget, the fewer the shooting days I have found that having
the bare minimum I mentioned helps keep the shoot smooth and fast allowing
me to get as high a quality as possible using as few as possible. I'm not trying
to be right. I'm not saying a movie cannot be made with fewer people, I'm
simply speculating about an general, all purpose crew for low budget shows
that have proven to work in my experience.

I do have one more question. If you are not comfortable answering I accept
that. Just speculation. Not trying to be right. Just my curiosity.

What other tasks would you have the scripty and First do?

I ask because in my experience (even on – especially on – very low budget
shoots) those two positions are critical to the speed and efficiency of such a
tiny crew.

I am creating my third feature now and the crew is me and the actors, no one else.

It is a nightmare but in the same time great to go trough massive project like this and have full control about everything.

Audio is the hardest thing, both capturing it and mixing it is difficult.