shooting a blackout

Number of different ways to go about it. What's the mood of the scene? What genre is the film?

From a most basic standpoint - have a large light outside a window motivating moonlight. The lights go out and then most things are back/edge-lit with the moonlight. They then light candles etc. which become their key.

jax_rox said:

Number of different ways to go about it. What's the mood of the scene? What genre is the film?

From a most basic standpoint - have a large light outside a window motivating moonlight. The lights go out and then most things are back/edge-lit with the moonlight. They then light candles etc. which become their key.

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Sorry for not describing the situation further Jax , but here's some more info.

The apt is on the 24th floor, but maybe I can put some lights on the balcony to suggest moonlight. Thx

Also, one person is assaulting another, so they're not going to be lighting any candles. But right after the electricity goes out, a fistsize ball of light enters the room through the glass window, and they both look at it. The ball of light is not super bright, it's just enough to dimly light their edges and dimly light the wall behind it as they look at it. This ball of light will be added later in post including reflection on wall. But I need the reflection of their contours before post.

Genre is sci-fi. Can you tell me why you asked this?

Also just as a personal preference, I would like to avoid sharp shadows, even with the electricity out.

Thanks a million Jax. Ask me if you need any other info.

trueindie said:

Genre is sci-fi. Can you tell me why you asked this?

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Helps inform me (and others) the kinda of style you might be going for. The style of lighting and shooting for a soppy drama is probably going to be different than that of a gritty crime thriller, or scifi

trueindie said:

The apt is on the 24th floor, but maybe I can put some lights on the balcony to suggest moonlight. Thx

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Hard to know really without knowing the layout of the apartment, where everyone will be and where the camera will be, but I've certainly put HMIs on balconies before as a moonlight. What light you put out there, and how you modify it will depend on how much space there is out there. Of course, if we ever see out the window, it's a potential problem.

Budget also becomes a factor - are you trying to do this with home depot lights? Do you have budget for rentals? Do you have a Gaffer/Grip coming down? What's your budget/effective budget? (I see effective budget as the budget if everything was costed out 100%. Imagine you were shooting a commercial and everyone charged their full day rate. That's your effective budget. This way, it can be a bit easier to compare films with the same actual budget, but one of which produced by a newbie with no friends or contacts, another by an established industry professional who is able to negotiate their friends down to rates that might be 1/10th of what they would normally charge)

trueindie said:

Also, one person is assaulting another, so they're not going to be lighting any candles. But right after the electricity goes out, a fistsize ball of light enters the room through the glass window, and they both look at it. The ball of light is not super bright, it's just enough to dimly light their edges and dimly light the wall behind it as they look at it. This ball of light will be added later in post including reflection on wall. But I need the reflection of their contours before post.

Also just as a personal preference, I would like to avoid sharp shadows, even with the electricity out.

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You might be able to rig some kinos overhead. Again depends on your budget. Could be a cool way of bringing up exposure enough to see people, without going overboard on the harsh moonlight effect. Rig a few 4x4 Kinos overhead and cover everything with your preferred diffusion and you've got a base exposure, of a moonlight colour that's also really soft so sells a 'soft moonlight' effect.
Or, stick a frame of your preferred diffusion in front of your big light outside. Maybe use the book light technique.

Maybe you could have a few lights inside bouncing off bead/poly boards or other reflective material. Maybe you have one big light bouncing off a reflective material as your large 'moon' source (recent MVid I was on we bounced a 2.5k HMI into a 12x12 ultra bounce for the moon effect)

Maybe you could put an 18k HMI on a condor a few hundred metres away, then cover the entire balcony window in your preferred diffusion...

As I say, bunch of different ways you can pull it off, hope I've given you a few ideas - really depends on your creativity, your budget and what's available to you.

If you're unsure as to whether a certain plan of attack is going to work for the effect you want - test it out beforehand


My personal opinion is the best way to approach lighting a scene is to figure out what you want to see first - what mood do you want? Shadowy/soft? Colours? Then figure out what's motivating the light (sometimes nothing!) and then select your fixtures based on that.
The best way to figure out what fixtures do what is to simply get hands on with them and see what they do

It doesn't necessary have to be moonlight,it could be streetlamps as well,if you want different color contrast. You could also rig Kinos just above windows cheating a light coming through windows,if you could put just some source outside that could do the trick.

Some DP's like to use a dimmer on the moonlight effect kicking in simulating the natural adjustment of an eye,so it is not a snap snap but a gradual transition. For the orb of light you have an option of a china ball on a boom simulating the light,otherwise you are going to screw yourself in post.

All in all it sounds like fairly big budget shoot,so I hope there is a decent budget available,otherwise it is probably a bit too ambitious

Use emergency back up lights as motivation? Some new apartments might have a backup circuit.. your story is modified to provide a reason why there is harsh point light in your shot... easier to rig a fake BACKUP LIGHT ON THE WALL than moon light on the balcony..

Thanks for the tips guys. Much appreciated.

Jax, your advice is a bit above the paygrade of someone like me. Let me tell you my lighting situation and maybe you can advise me accordingly.

- I don't have any HMIs. I've never used one. I don't intend to use one here.
- This is going to be shot in a residential apartment, and so no outlet can have more than 1.5k coming out of it or the breakers will probably fire.
- There is no budget. It's just me and a few guys working for me for free, none of whom are professional DPs, or grips. One of them is a grip, but let's assume none is, just in case.
- I have Arri knockoffs, 2x1000 and 2x650. I also have 3x1000 led lights. and 6x300 led lights.
- This is not really a "professional" situation. So I can't really heed "professional" advice, as I can't afford it. I plan on keeping it as simple as possible, high key when lit, soft when not. That was my initial goal.

[Edit: What I was really planning on doing was shooting the lights up at reflectors when 'lit,' from all sides, and doing the same when 'not lit,' from only the window side, with the lights just a little dimmed. I don't have the knowhow or the skills of hanging kinos/led lights from above. I was thinking having reflectors above would have a similar effect.]

Anyway, shoot will take place probably in a month or so. We're going to be practicing some of the shots for a couple of weekends at least to get the feel for the lights and how they look, before I do anything.

If you guys have any advice based on the lights I have that would be fantastic also. I apologize, as I should really have started this thread with that info.

Cheers,
Aveek

ps. good idea about the emergency lights wheats. Unfortunately it doesn't go with my story.

trueindie said:

Jax, your advice is a bit above the paygrade of someone like me.

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Uh huh - so as always budget is important That being said, having some idea of what your budget is can be useful - you may not know how to use an HMI for example, but you might be able to swindle a good deal with a Gaffer who does, and owns them, who just doesn't have any work on at the moment (I've been able to negotiate Gaffers who might normally charge $1k+/day to come down for 1/10th of the price, and in some cases just for petrol money because they have no other work on, or because they're a friend of mine).

But, let's assume that's not happening - as you say your budget is basically nothing.

trueindie said:

- I have Arri knockoffs, 2x1000 and 2x650. I also have 3x1000 led lights. and 6x300 led lights.
- This is going to be shot in a residential apartment, and so no outlet can have more than 1.5k coming out of it or the breakers will probably fire.

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Cool, how many circuits are there? I.e. how many lights can you have going at once? Are the LEDs running on battery?

I'd probably think about using your 2x 1k's as your 'moonlight', if that is indeed the effect you're looking for - gel them blue and shoot them through the window. Then I'd use your LEDs at varying levels of intensity and with varying levels of diffusion to help shape the light one the people themselves - your 2x 1ks are going to light the bg quite well, and may or may not do what you want with the people themselves, but having those LEDs, assumedly on battery power and easily maneuverable means you can do what you need.

Use your 2x 650's as your 'pre-blackout' tungsteny light.

Of course, there's all sorts of things you can do - but to get you thinking about it, that's one solution I might think about.

trueindie said:

[Edit: What I was really planning on doing was shooting the lights up at reflectors when 'lit,' from all sides, and doing the same when 'not lit,' from only the window side, with the lights just a little dimmed. I don't have the knowhow or the skills of hanging kinos/led lights from above. I was thinking having reflectors above would have a similar effect.]

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Reflecting the light will certainly soften it a fair bit - where they're sitting/what angle and whether you're using a silver reflector or white reflector (white will be softer) will determine how much.

It's certainly not a bad idea - I'd give it a bit of a test beforehand to see if you like what it's doing before you lock it in.

My only concern might be having it look a tad flat, which is simply not really my kinda style, though it may be totally what you're going for. As always, it all comes down to taste and what you want.

I'd also suggest buying some sheets, or a roll, of diffusion - it's pretty cheap; I've even seen people use bed sheets and shower curtains to diffuse lights on super low budgets.

You could chuck 1 or 2 1ks out the window with a shower curtain in front, so you're just getting a glow from the window in whatever colour you gel it to (maybe blue for moonlight, or some kind straw/CTO for street lamp). Then shape with the LEDs.

Good luck, have fun!

Thanks for the advice Jax. Much appreciated.

I'm actually going for the flat look. I'm not a shadow kind of guy. Just my personal preference.

I've got gels and diffusion paper, so we'll be testing those out too. There are two circuits. But my LEDs have batteries, so I think I'll be alright.

Thanks again.