how many takes for each shot

Directed my first Short Film over the weekend. Was a brilliant experience. After we had finished, I spoke with a College Student (studying Film)...He was asking me how many takes on average I was doing for each shot. I told him on average 3....He then informed me that this was way too low, and I most likely would regret not doing more....Is there truth in this, or is it a case of when as Director, you feel you have got exactly what you need, where its 1 take or 100???
 
I feel as the director if you know that you have the shot that you got perfect (or as close as you can get) then that is all you need; possibly just one more to be safe. But that random student is probably just talking cause lots of features have high ratios. Such as Zero Dark Thirty shots around 320hr of footage for a 2hr movie. Thats a ratio of around 1:160. But then again they also shot multiple cameras at the same time.
 
As much as it takes.
Sometimes I have 10 takes. Sometimes 1 (if it can only be done once) or 2.
Depends on available time and whether the take is good.
If you have 100 takes and 99 of them are near perfect, you didn't need so many.
If you have 100 takes and they are all good, but different, you obviously had no idea what you wanted.
If you have 100 take and they are all crap, you had to little takes on that shots.
If you have 2 takes and 1 of them is spot on, you justhad enough.

It's a nice luxury to shoot 100 takes for each shot. You need a lot of time on set and in post to do all that.

If the takes go well, the thing you will regret more likely is shooting little coverage, so you are limit in the ways you can edit it.

The is no rule.
It's like asking how longa piece of stringis :P
 
Directed my first Short Film over the weekend. Was a brilliant experience. After we had finished, I spoke with a College Student (studying Film)...He was asking me how many takes on average I was doing for each shot. I told him on average 3....He then informed me that this was way too low, and I most likely would regret not doing more....Is there truth in this, or is it a case of when as Director, you feel you have got exactly what you need, where its 1 take or 100???

There isn't a right or wrong answer. You could get what you wanted after 1 shot or after 100. It depends on you as the director.
 
First, grats on popping your directing cherry.

Ask a hundred directors that question and you'll get a hundred different answers.

As others have said, as many as it takes. I'll also add that it can depend on the rest of the coverage that you have/will get.

There is wisdom in the advice. If you get it on the first take, do another one for safety. It's not just to get a better take, but just in case there's something you missed or some technical error/problem comes up. Even if you do screw up, there's always reshoots.

The truth of it is you're going to to learn from this shoot. Things you did right, things you could do better. You're also going to develop your own style and your own best way to run your shoots.
 
I think if you ask a hundred directors you'll get the same answer; you
do as many takes as it takes. Only a film student could say that three
is way too low.
 
Great advice everyone....yeah, I felt, I was very lucky, with the 2 actors I had, and we were stuck for time, but very happy with the results....thanks 'sweetie', it was great to finally lose my 'film making virginty' so to speak
 
Great advice everyone....yeah, I felt, I was very lucky, with the 2 actors I had, and we were stuck for time, but very happy with the results....thanks 'sweetie', it was great to finally lose my 'film making virginty' so to speak

Hmm.. well, I suppose technically you've lost your virginity even if the act isn't finished yet.
Post production is a huge part of film making.
 
I feel as the director if you know that you have the shot that you got perfect (or as close as you can get) then that is all you need ...

Well, that's the issue isn't it? A director is rarely going to know whether or not a take is perfect (or as close as s/he can get) and a perfect take (or close) is a very rare animal indeed. Even in an ADR studio, with custom designed acoustics and nothing to hamper perfect mic placement, technical faults/weaknesses are still fairly common. On set/location, the PSM's role is compromised by the environmental conditions and that filming the visuals has priority. A perfect take is therefore very unlikely and one needs to multiply that improbability with the improbability of capturing the perfect take visually. In post, alt takes are usually essential if one wishes to avoid the time, money and loss of quality associated with ADR.

None of this answers the OP's question though, as others have said, it all depends. As a general rule, I would advise to always plan on a safety take, even with an apparently perfect take, IE. Always an absolute minimum of two takes. By necessity, this rule has to be broken on occasion but it's best to do your utmost to minimise those occasions and plan for counter-measures when it can't be avoided. Without knowing the specifics of your short it's impossible to judge but on the face of it, I would say that an average of 3 takes is probably too few.

If you have 100 take and they are all crap, you had to little takes on that shots.

If you have 100 takes and they are all crap, the problem isn't that you haven't done enough takes, the problem is a serious failure in the pre-production phase!

If you have 2 takes and 1 of them is spot on, you just had enough.

Possibly or possibly not! If you had two takes and one of them is spot on, it would be wise to do an additional (safety) take.

G
 
If you had two takes and one of them is spot on, it would be wise to do an additional (safety) take.

G

I have to agree with this. I learned it the hard way. You can never really have enough takes, as nothing is ever perfect. If you have time, which is key, before your next shot or setup, then do another take, and another if you can. You're already setup. Your crew is already there. AND you have time. You have absolutely no right to feel satisfied :). So do another take. If you planned well enough to spare the time, and 500 other things haven't gone wrong.

But if you think you have it, I guess you have it. But do another take anyway. If you have the time :)
 
Thought I would add this article into the mix.

It was written by Greta Gerwig for the New York Times after she completed shooting Frances Ha, Noah Baumbach's film:

"In the film “Frances Ha,” Scene 63 is 28 seconds long. We did 42 takes in total, two hours of shooting in a bathroom with no breaks or pauses other than for direction and blocking. In 50 days of shooting, we averaged around 35 takes per scene. Most independent films shoot in 25 days with, at most, 10 takes per scene.

To write this essay, I went back to the editing room and watched all 42 takes. I also read the script supervisor’s notes, which include Noah’s opinions of each performance. Using the footage, the notes and my memory of the day of shooting, I created the following take journal.

Take 1 (2:04 p.m.): The first one. Not great, but not bad. The first go-round always has an adrenaline to it that is thrilling and unwieldy. There is a pride in simply getting through it, saying everything pretty well correctly and not melting into the ground with embarrassment for all the acting that we are doing.

Take 2 (2:08 p.m.): Because the first take went fairly well, I immediately become cocky and start overplaying it. I’m acting too drunk. It’s whiny and high-pitched, and for some reason I’m leaning over the sink in a way that makes me look like a hunchback.

Take 3 (2:13 p.m.): Now I swing too far in the other direction and pitch my voice a lot lower. It sounds fake, as if I’m trying to sound important. Frances’ rhythms are more fleet and funny. I touch Mickey too much, it’s too aggressive. She flinches, and she’s right to, because what I’m doing is weird.

Take 4 (2:16 p.m.): I know I’m doing the scene badly, but I can’t figure out how to do it well. Usually by Take 4 something has settled, but not this time. I do a weird line reading just to change it up. That surprises me midperformance, and then I mess up my next line — I say “three-hour-lunch friend” instead of “three-hour-brunch friend.” I apologize immediately after Noah calls, “Cut!” Little words count.

Take 5 (2:20 p.m.): Still hunched over. Less angry, more sad. I’m probably just sad for myself, which is a terrible trap for an actor to fall into. I can tell that Noah is not thrilled with what we’re getting. He hasn’t said anything yet — no “Good take” or “Mark that one” to let me know that I’m on the right track.

You can read the whole journal, all 42 takes, here.

This seems like a lot of takes from my experience as both an actor and a director, but the general feel you get from it is pretty true to what it is like working on both sides of the camera in an indie film.

What do others think?
 
Thought I would add this article into the mix.

It was written by Greta Gerwig for the New York Times after she completed shooting Frances Ha, Noah Baumbach's film:



You can read the whole journal, all 42 takes, here.

This seems like a lot of takes from my experience as both an actor and a director, but the general feel you get from it is pretty true to what it is like working on both sides of the camera in an indie film.

What do others think?

Good find. Oh what I'd give for a 25 day shoot budget.
 
...............

Possibly or possibly not! If you had two takes and one of them is spot on, it would be wise to do an additional (safety) take.

If it's spot on it is spot on. :P
The only things we can debate is whether you can tell during shooting or find out in the cutting room.
And that it's always good to get an extra take. Just in case the file gets corrupted or something stupid happened that nobody noticed.
That's talking about best practises.
 
What do others think?

I think it's bizarre! Despite lo budget indie filmmakers generally having a hundred (or more) times less budget and resources than commercial/professional filmmakers, they are commonly far more wasteful.

Averaging 35 takes per scene is almost unbelievable, let alone 42. For a very long, complex scene comprising a number of different shots this number of takes might be slightly more reasonable, only slightly though. However, the scene in question is a short and simple two shot. For example:

"Take 4 (2:16 p.m.): I know I’m doing the scene badly, but I can’t figure out how to do it well." - Huh? This problem should have been identified and solved during rehearsals, well before take 1, let alone not even identifying the problem until take 4!
"Take 14 (2:44 p.m.): It’s beginning to take shape. The rhythm is kicking in." - Great! However, with proper preparation this point should have been achieved by take 1!
"In the final cut of the film, Noah used Take 29." - Why do another 13 takes then? Sure, a safety take after take 29 but why the other 12?

In other words, the shooting should have effectively been from take 14 to take 29 (plus a safety), although take 18 should have been sorted before filming and takes 19 and 24 are probably non-issues considering how many alt takes there are to play with! And even with 42 takes, they may still have needed some ADR (because the paper rustling continues over the dialogue)!

It's just all so wasteful. I can maybe understand the actors and director needing over an hour to rehearse this scene but why pay for the DP, camera-operator, PSM, any additional personnel and the location for all this rehearsal time? And, it's not just the time/cost of the location crew, the director and editor will have to review 42 takes, then the dialogue editor will probably have to review them all again and there's also a time/cost for all the additional file management, transfer, back-up and storage.

If it's spot on it is spot on.

Indeed, but when is it ever "spot on"? I can't remember the last time I edited the dialogue for a scene in a dramatic production where all the dialogue used in the final mix was from a single production take. And, in 20 years, I'm pretty sure I've never edited or mixed dialogue for a scene which didn't need at least some corrective treatment.
Additionally of course, I'm just talking about the production sound, the chance of all the other crafts (along with the production sound) simultaneously getting it "spot on" is effectively zero.

The only things we can debate is whether you can tell during shooting or find out in the cutting room.

That wouldn't be much of a debate! A PSM for example, has neither the equipment nor the time to perfectly judge if the dialogue is "spot on".

And that it's always good to get an extra take. Just in case the file gets corrupted or something stupid happened that nobody noticed. That's talking about best practises.

I wouldn't call a safety take an extra take, a take after the safety take would be an extra take. Best practises exist because many decades of film making have proven that averaged out, it is the most efficient practise. In other words, sure, you can often get away without a safety take but on average you will be bitten in the ass harder by not doing safety takes than by the time it takes to do them. Best practise is by definition the best way, otherwise it would be called an optional practise. Also, although a safety take does provide a level of protection against file corruption and missing something stupid, these are by far the least common uses of a safety take. The most common use in my experience is for something which was fairly innocuous/subtle or even imperceptible that happened on set.

G
 
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I think it all boils down to how much tape you have... Or nowadays, how much storage space and time. I usually have very little time and next-to-nothing storage space. In my case, I've had a maximum of 6 takes as most of my shorts have been filmed on a day or two. So you have to balance it out as well as you possibly can. If you have a ton of time and storage space you can get as many as 20 takes just to get that one perfect shot and have something to choose from. But I always recommend a minimum of 2 if you are on a pinch. Sometimes re-shooting is a pain so no matter how little storage space you have and how little time you have, at least you have some elbow room.
 
Wow. When I shoot stuff, I allow for 1-2 good takes per shot, then we move on. I can't imagine doing 35 takes for one scene. Have you no remorse for your editor?
 
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