Starting out, short film or feature length?

If i am looking to create a film for serious possible career advancing reasons. Submitting it to film festivals. Should i write and shoot a feature length film, or go with a short film, what length, 10 minutes, 30 minutes? Thanks.
 
The good news is - there is no "should" except that you should
do what YOU feel is best for YOUR current experience level.

If you are ready to make a feature length film then that would
be your best choice. If you feel you need to ease into the expense,
time and experience needed to make a feature by making a short,
then that would be your best choice.

Are you experienced enough to make an excellent, career advancing
feature? If you are - go for it!
 
What Rik said...but to add, I'd work from the start, and go to the finish. In other words, do you have a good idea for a feature? If you do, do you have the money or financing to see it to the end? Do you have access to the actors to do it? Do you have the places to shoot and time to shoot?

In other words, there are so many questions that have to be answered before you can make any decision, that you can't even think of them all. And you learn new questions as you go further into this.

An example is, you have a great script, that calls for a lot of outside shooting in a winter setting with snow on the ground. If you only have the potential to shoot after hours and weekends, what are you going to do if you don't have a bunch of snowy days? Can you write out the snow? Can you shoot in Spring if you go too long?

But as Rik said, if you can, a feature is always a better showing of talent. But your first film often times turns out not to be your best film. Maybe do a couple of shorts to show yourself what you can do, and then do the feature. Or do the feature knowing that you'll know what you did wrong by the end of it, but not be able to fix it. And you'll have to live with it.

But a long post short...do what you can do, and what you want to do. It ain't rocket science!

Chris
 
I'd say it depends on how much experience you already have. You said "starting out" -- but that could mean different things to different people. If you really haven't made anything yet -- start with short movies to gain experience before you jump into a feature production.
 
I've made a ton of short films all on digital 8. I recently bought the HV30, so i can now shoot video that i can relate to film in appearance. 24fps, good image quality, etc. I'm reading Robert Rodriguez's book "Rebel without a crew" and i have watched his movie bedhead and el mariachi. Though I imagine the world of indepedent cinema has changed dramatically since then.
 
Because none of my shorts are of any quality that I, or anyone else would take seriously. They were all practice. So i'm just trying to decide if i should make a short film or a feature length to start showing to people on the idea that, this is real and i'm not just playing around with a camera anymore.
 
Then it sounds like you are leaning towards making anothr short.

Thinking of your current resources - money, talent, crew, locations - which is better for you?
 
Current resources are all variable at this point.

Money, i of course want to spend as little as possible. I've already purchased a fairly expensive camera, (what i think is one anyways) I don't have to deal with buying and developing film so that expense is out. Costuming, some props, possible location expenses, are the only expenses i am worried about right now, mostly location is probably going to be my biggest expense. Crew will pretty much be me, a boom operator and 1 or 2 grips. Talent will be friends, family, and anyone else in the area that wants to work for free. I believe i have the skill and money to make a feature film, so feature or short, i'm just trying to decide what would be best for me, and don't want to throw money away making something that will be a failure.

Another issue i have been pondering is that when writing, brainstorming ideas, do i write for the locations that i have, or do i write and then find the locations instead of writing around my boundaries. I want something that can show off my ability as a director, editor, cinematographer, but i also want to produce a good story. Should i focus more on an in-depth story with well thought out dialog, or just come up with a basic plot and film a great 10 minute action flick? I'd like to have both but i'd like your opinion on that also.

Also, other than the big festivals, cannes and sundance, what are some smaller more reasonable film festivals to look into for requirements, length of film, etc, that arn't quite that big, but that if my film is good enough will focus some attention in my direction? Thanks.
 
Another issue i have been pondering is that when writing, brainstorming ideas, do i write for the locations that i have, or do i write and then find the locations instead of writing around my boundaries.
Good question. If your goal is to shoot a film on the cheap, then you should write something that utilizes things and places you already have, or can beg, borrow, or steal for your film for free. While there's nothing wrong with Rodriguez's book, it's more of a memoire than anything particularly useful.. I'd recommend you pick up a copy of the DV Rebel's Guide.. it is all about the how-to's of making a film on the cheap, and this question is one of the first things addressed in the book. ;)

I want something that can show off my ability as a director, editor, cinematographer, but i also want to produce a good story. Should i focus more on an in-depth story with well thought out dialog, or just come up with a basic plot and film a great 10 minute action flick? I'd like to have both but i'd like your opinion on that also.
Without a good story and well thought out dialog, your "great 10 minute action flick" is going to be a crappy 10 minute action flick, because it won't know where its going and it's more than likely your friends, family, and whomever else you're talking about putting into your film isn't that good at improv to create the story on the fly and have it not suck. Don't skip over the story portion just because you're eager to shoot something. The more time and energy you put into every aspect of your film, the better off you'll be.

You've made plenty of shorts, but nothing you want to show around... you want to change that this time, the good news is it's absolutely possible, the bad news is that it has to do with a great many other things than just the camera it was shot on. Don't set yourself up to fail from the get go,
Write a good solid script, have it critiqued, rewrite it, etc...
Put in plenty of time on preproduction, storyboarding, casting, etc..
The more organized you are going into the actual shooting phase, the more smooth and productive it will be.
Make sure you've got enough coverage for a good edit.
If you've got visual effects, make sure you can make them look believable, hire someone to do them for you that can, or write them out of the script. A half-assed visual effect detracts from the viewing experience, and would be better left out than used.
CAPTURE GOOD AUDIO AND DEVOTE A GOOD PORTION OF POST PRODUCTION TO THE AUDIO MIX (which must NOT be done with headphones, or cheap computer speakers if you want it to not suck in a theater)

Until you can make a kick ass short film that looks & sounds awesome and has a story -- even if not the BEST story, it has a story that doesn't suck with believable characters, etc -- until then, my advice is keep making shorts.
 
When I jumped into filmmaking, I went the feature route (though many people advised me NOT to do so and that I should just take my story, turn it into a trailer and try to 'sell' people on the trailer to raise more money). I knew I only had one chance at this so I jumped all in. Now I've got (what I think) is a very solid and well crafted film (and a good trailer to boot) and I've got a tangible item that can help me to the next level.

Like others have said, if you can do a feature (great script, budget, understanding wife) just go for it. If you don't like the idea of possibly going for broke (literally), then stick with shorts and slowly build yourself up to a feature.

Long story short: I think I had it in me to do a feature so I did. If you think you have it in you, then...

Todd

btw, if you want to see the trailer (I've posted this link on the site already) you can see it at: www.drawingchalkpictures.com and then go to 'Previews'.

I wish you the best of luck.
 
Just a recommendation as it relates to the writing of your short or feature...

If it were me, I would NOT hold myself to any specific locations that I know I can use later on in the shooting. Of course, definitely INCLUDE them since you know you have them -- along with anything else you KNOW you're going to have access to.

But don't let those elements be your boundaries... Often, it is these very boundaries that can keep you from writing something JUST A LITTLE BETTER.

Rather, go ahead and pull out all the stops but be realistic -- which can often be a hard line but I would rather see you write something amazing and not be held back by any self-imposed limitations and then, after you've finally got something good, sit back and rethink the elements you know you can't pull off and figure out some creative substitutions.

I think HOLDING BACK from the get-go is not the way to write a great story and eventual screenplay.

Just remember to be realistic... If you know for sure that you won't be able to have any CGI, don't include it. If you know for sure that you won't be able to have a car chase, don't write one in. Often, it's the creative substitutions of typically overused story elements that helps make a great Indie film anyway.

Good luck with it!

filmy
 
I've ordered the book DV Rebels Guide, so i'll read over that as soon as it arrives. I've started work on writing a short. I imagine the film completed will be around 20 minutes. Is this an acceptable length for a short film that should be submitted to film festivals that accept short films?

Another question i am having is about budget. I already have the camera, it's digital so there is no film cost except for DV tape, which isn't much. My actors will work for free, unless it turns out i need extra talent which may happen. I figure for that i could advertise on the local craigslist for actors, or advertise at the local college theatre department. For location i am going to do as much guerilla filming as possible. Hopefully i won't have to involve the city or police. As i'm sure that will cost money. Something i still need to check on. For props and other requirements, how much should i be spending on this short film. If it's a good film will i get any of my investment back? I would hate to film a bad movie that doesn't win anything and be out thousands of dollars. Say i want to have a car chase, and i need 2 junk cars to chase after each other, so i buy 2 cars for $2000, i'm out $4k plus fee's so i can slam cars into each other and have a cool chase. Then i get rid of the cars for nothing because they are destroyed. So lets say i have a good story, good action, good acting and i win some awards at a film festival, is it worth it?

Also, what are some film festivals that accept short films, is there a list of festivals, or are they all separate entities with their own rules and prizes? Thanks.
 
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I imagine the film completed will be around 20 minutes. Is this an acceptable length for a short film that should be submitted to film festivals that accept short films?
Generally the shorter the film, the easier it is to get into festivals, but if it's a good film there's no reason it wouldn't be accepted with a run time of 20 minutes.

is it worth it?
That's probably a question that only you can really answer... If you have the money to put into it, and you feel it's a worthwhile investment, then yes. Short films rarely make much money though, so that is definitely something to consider. If you put in the work and it's a good film, and you package a dvd with extra features, making of info, etc.. then you might be able to make a decent profit..

Also, what are some film festivals that accept short films, is there a list of festivals, or are they all separate entities with their own rules and prizes? Thanks.
The Film Festival Guide by Adam Langer would probably be a good resource... Also withoutabox.com is a very useful resource.
 
I wish not to be rude, but some observations:

- Airwolf, you seem to be keen to make a movie, altough you do not seem to have an "idea" for the film. I might be wrong, but I think it could to better to create a GOOD movie starting from the idea for the film, instead of the "how am I going to make profit of it" point of view.

- What I can understand from your posts & questions, you are not the most experienced film maker, but that's OK, as you stated yourself, starting out. So many questions you have, are questions only you can answer. You seem to worry about a few hundred bucks, but in the next post you bring up 2000 dollar cars, it's hard for anyone to answer questions when nobody knows what the basic treatment for the film is. How important are the props for the BIG picture, how important are the locations, are the locations irrelevant? Is the movie about the persons and their relations or maybe a persons or a family's relations to the locations? What story do you wish to tell?

- Money is never a problem, as long as the film and the budget walk hand in hand. You can make a good short with 500.000 USD, or a good feature with 10.000 USD, it all depends on the movie you are making. If the idea is something like "Phonebooth" (feature film) you could make it cheap, if it's something that requires a lot of expensive props, hundreds of cars, life fire, explosions and is a solo act of Bruce Willis (a short film) you might have to pay something for it.

- Getting money and making profit might not be the best reason to make movies. Some passion please. If you put out a few grand and make a good movie (according to you and hopefully others too) that never makes profit, so what, you've made something and that counts. Sometimes it might get you new job, or teach you something.

- One of the biggest problems with amateur films (I believe there's a difference between amateur and independent movie making) is that the story doesn't hold up. This issue escalates the as the movie gets longer. An idea, story can work for 5-15 minutes, but does it for 90 minutes? Sometimes a story gets cramped into 30 minutes and it's a mess, cause it would require at least 70 or 90 minutes. Get the story, write the script and then you'll know if it's a short or a feature. One guideline could be, 1 page per minute.

- Writing. Not even goin' there. Just remember that characters are just people like you. They have a past, the present and the future. They have an agenda, a life and reasons. Make sure you ask yourself, how are these things related to each other and are they matters of relevance to the story. Depth is a tricky thing.

- Festivals, why shouldn't you film get to the big ones? Number 1 rule in film making all around the world. NOBODY knows if a movie will be a success before it is or is not a success. There is no 100% foolproof way to make movies. Yes, some Hollywood flicks a destined to gross a few hundred millions, BUT do they make profit, are they GOOD movies, do they win oscars, do they get into Cannes, maybe, maybe not. This year a film made by a aussie director got into Cannes, in competition for Palme d'Or, filmed on his backyard with a Hi8 camcorder with his kids. What can you say, yes he was a professional film maker, but what does that mean. Nothing more than that he had skills to create something interesting. Send your movie all festivals that you can afford. Usually the fees are 20 to 60 dollars per film. Several festivals require that shorts are less than 15 minutes, and features over 60. But check out their site, or one of the several film fest portals.
- CGI, effects etc. should never be the starting point. They are there only to support the film, not be the film.

- Short, feature, epic, megalomaniac, no matter what you do, just do it. Or as Quentin said it:

"If you want to make a movie, make it. Don't wait for a grant, don't wait for the perfect circumstances, just make it." - Giving advice to young aspiring filmmakers at the 1994 Independent Spirit Awards
 
just write the best that you can, read it over and make corrections then do it again until you are convinced. before you think of filming anything, make sure you have a story with flow and good dialog. then stop thinking and just do it... dont think it over for ten years like i did. get the peaple you need, have meeting with all of them. ask for help, theres alot of peaple that will help you without pay, just post it here and you will get a response. i will help you with no strings...... do it now..
 
For me it's no question. Shorts. I'm assuming you've posed this question because your interested in making a profit. If you're not, then honestly do whatever you want.

Here's are a few philosophies I live by when it comes to making films.
1. If you can't make a solid short film, good chances are you can't make a good feature.

Story telling wise, you will quickly learn what elements are more important than others. Conflict will need to be raised with every line of dialogue and action on screen. Everything is vital in a short. Once you have nailed down the story telling elements in a short you can work your way up. It is mainly a matter of gaining experience and knowledge.

2. If you are trying to make money, Investors will much more likely look at a short film or two of yours, rather then the whole thing.

Their not stupid, time is money. Think about it on the other side of the table; Would you give money to an independent filmmaker who can't even make a decent short? Most likely not.

3. Growing technology praises the short films.

Look at the recent internet success "Dr. Horrible". Three short films tied together with a few big names and you just made a whole lot of money. People's attention spans are rapidly dwindling and you should account for that. If you want your film accessible to a larger audience. Go for the short.
 
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