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Old 08-22-2018, 01:42 AM   #1
Ulysses65
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Features of work with sound.

Hi guys!

I will answer any questions about working with sound.
Ask, do not be shy.
I'm a composer and a sound engineer.
My works are here.
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Old 08-23-2018, 02:08 AM   #2
Ulysses65
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Fresh Track!
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Old 08-27-2018, 01:13 AM   #3
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Summer Dance
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Old 08-27-2018, 11:51 AM   #4
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I am in middle of making a short film to submit into famous film festivals around the world. I don't have that much budget, but I do want to get the sound right, what sound equipments do you suggest I use with the least budget possible ? I have both EXT and INT scenes. Also I have many important O.S sounds in many scenes( Like whisper, vague and quite music, rustling noises,...).
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Old 08-27-2018, 01:16 PM   #5
Ulysses65
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Originally Posted by pedramyz View Post
I am in middle of making a short film to submit into famous film festivals around the world. I don't have that much budget, but I do want to get the sound right, what sound equipments do you suggest I use with the least budget possible ? I have both EXT and INT scenes. Also I have many important O.S sounds in many scenes( Like whisper, vague and quite music, rustling noises,...).
Hey. If I correctly understood your question, then as a budget solution I can suggest using a recorder ZOOM H1.
As an audio editor, you can use Garage Band or Logic X. They also have excellent sound libraries.
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Old 08-27-2018, 04:11 PM   #6
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... then as a budget solution I can suggest using a recorder ZOOM H1.
The Zoom H1 isn’t going to get you anywhere close to where you want to be. This is NOT a recorder for getting clear dialog.

So, pedramyz, there are three things going on here. First, dialog is a MONO source and the H1 only has a stereo mic pair built in. And those mics pick up WAY too much of what’s going on. Second, the mic needs to be as close as it can be without being seen in the shot. The most basic way to do this is to have a mic on a boom pole.

Sure, you could try putting the H1 on the end of a boom pole... but then how are you going to keep control of it and (even with an extender run for connecting headphones) watch the meters and other display info? And the stereo mics just aren’t going to be helpful anyway. The absolute most basic kit is going to have a field recorder, a mic with a boompole and shockmount and wind protection, a cable to run down the boom pole from the mic to the recorder, and a good pair of headphones.

You want good dialog so you can submit to film festivals? You need to get it right in production. If you can, recruit an experienced sound person who has the right gear and who knows what to do with it. This may or may not cost money. If it’s a passion project and doesn’t have a lengthy time commitment, you may be able to find someone willing to throw you a bone for free or at a seriously reduced rate. You only have to ask, and the worst answer you can get is, “No.”

If you’re commited to purchasing a small kit for yourself, you still need to have someone on your team willing to learn and focus on sound and sound alone. The H1 could possibly work except that it only has 1/8” input for an external mic. That pretty much hems you into something like the RØDE VideoMic series and an extension cable. Not idea, and certainly not the best quality recording thanks to the pre-amps in the Zoom H1 and having to run the 1/8” extension (that means you’ll have some noise floor).

My recommendation for a bare-bones, low-budget kit would be something like the Tascam DR-60DmkII, the Audio Technica AT-875 shotgun, a boom pole/shockmount/windscreen kit for the mic, an XLR mic cable for microphone>recorder, and GOOD headphones like the Sony MDR-7506. There’s a decent, inexpensive custom bag for the DR-60DmkII from Strut that comes with a cheap (but useable) chest harness. Use the headphones during production. If you aren’t listening, you aren’t recording.

Good sound ain’t cheap. Crappy sound gets expensive to fix later.

The third thing going on here is stuff that you aren’t going to record on-set. Production sound is ALL about dialog. Period. The “vague and quiet music” is added in post. Things like footsteps, clothes rustling, objects being picked up, set down, dropped... anything caused by human movement... that’s also added in post. It’s usually Foley if you have the time and the know-how, but can be done using prerecorded sound effects. Whispers... if they’re part of dialog, you do the best you can to record them in production and if that doesn’t work you’ll ADR them in post.

Last edited by AcousticAl; 08-27-2018 at 04:15 PM.
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Old 08-27-2018, 05:38 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by AcousticAl View Post
The Zoom H1 isn’t going to get you anywhere close to where you want to be. This is NOT a recorder for getting clear dialog.

So, pedramyz, there are three things going on here. First, dialog is a MONO source and the H1 only has a stereo mic pair built in. And those mics pick up WAY too much of what’s going on. Second, the mic needs to be as close as it can be without being seen in the shot. The most basic way to do this is to have a mic on a boom pole.

Sure, you could try putting the H1 on the end of a boom pole... but then how are you going to keep control of it and (even with an extender run for connecting headphones) watch the meters and other display info? And the stereo mics just aren’t going to be helpful anyway. The absolute most basic kit is going to have a field recorder, a mic with a boompole and shockmount and wind protection, a cable to run down the boom pole from the mic to the recorder, and a good pair of headphones.

You want good dialog so you can submit to film festivals? You need to get it right in production. If you can, recruit an experienced sound person who has the right gear and who knows what to do with it. This may or may not cost money. If it’s a passion project and doesn’t have a lengthy time commitment, you may be able to find someone willing to throw you a bone for free or at a seriously reduced rate. You only have to ask, and the worst answer you can get is, “No.”

If you’re commited to purchasing a small kit for yourself, you still need to have someone on your team willing to learn and focus on sound and sound alone. The H1 could possibly work except that it only has 1/8” input for an external mic. That pretty much hems you into something like the RØDE VideoMic series and an extension cable. Not idea, and certainly not the best quality recording thanks to the pre-amps in the Zoom H1 and having to run the 1/8” extension (that means you’ll have some noise floor).

My recommendation for a bare-bones, low-budget kit would be something like the Tascam DR-60DmkII, the Audio Technica AT-875 shotgun, a boom pole/shockmount/windscreen kit for the mic, an XLR mic cable for microphone>recorder, and GOOD headphones like the Sony MDR-7506. There’s a decent, inexpensive custom bag for the DR-60DmkII from Strut that comes with a cheap (but useable) chest harness. Use the headphones during production. If you aren’t listening, you aren’t recording.

Good sound ain’t cheap. Crappy sound gets expensive to fix later.

The third thing going on here is stuff that you aren’t going to record on-set. Production sound is ALL about dialog. Period. The “vague and quiet music” is added in post. Things like footsteps, clothes rustling, objects being picked up, set down, dropped... anything caused by human movement... that’s also added in post. It’s usually Foley if you have the time and the know-how, but can be done using prerecorded sound effects. Whispers... if they’re part of dialog, you do the best you can to record them in production and if that doesn’t work you’ll ADR them in post.
Wow, great detailed info! thank you!
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Old 08-28-2018, 01:06 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by AcousticAl View Post
The Zoom H1 isn’t going to get you anywhere close to where you want to be. This is NOT a recorder for getting clear dialog.

So, pedramyz, there are three things going on here. First, dialog is a MONO source and the H1 only has a stereo mic pair built in. And those mics pick up WAY too much of what’s going on. Second, the mic needs to be as close as it can be without being seen in the shot. The most basic way to do this is to have a mic on a boom pole.

Sure, you could try putting the H1 on the end of a boom pole... but then how are you going to keep control of it and (even with an extender run for connecting headphones) watch the meters and other display info? And the stereo mics just aren’t going to be helpful anyway. The absolute most basic kit is going to have a field recorder, a mic with a boompole and shockmount and wind protection, a cable to run down the boom pole from the mic to the recorder, and a good pair of headphones.

You want good dialog so you can submit to film festivals? You need to get it right in production. If you can, recruit an experienced sound person who has the right gear and who knows what to do with it. This may or may not cost money. If it’s a passion project and doesn’t have a lengthy time commitment, you may be able to find someone willing to throw you a bone for free or at a seriously reduced rate. You only have to ask, and the worst answer you can get is, “No.”

If you’re commited to purchasing a small kit for yourself, you still need to have someone on your team willing to learn and focus on sound and sound alone. The H1 could possibly work except that it only has 1/8” input for an external mic. That pretty much hems you into something like the RØDE VideoMic series and an extension cable. Not idea, and certainly not the best quality recording thanks to the pre-amps in the Zoom H1 and having to run the 1/8” extension (that means you’ll have some noise floor).

My recommendation for a bare-bones, low-budget kit would be something like the Tascam DR-60DmkII, the Audio Technica AT-875 shotgun, a boom pole/shockmount/windscreen kit for the mic, an XLR mic cable for microphone>recorder, and GOOD headphones like the Sony MDR-7506. There’s a decent, inexpensive custom bag for the DR-60DmkII from Strut that comes with a cheap (but useable) chest harness. Use the headphones during production. If you aren’t listening, you aren’t recording.

Good sound ain’t cheap. Crappy sound gets expensive to fix later.

The third thing going on here is stuff that you aren’t going to record on-set. Production sound is ALL about dialog. Period. The “vague and quiet music” is added in post. Things like footsteps, clothes rustling, objects being picked up, set down, dropped... anything caused by human movement... that’s also added in post. It’s usually Foley if you have the time and the know-how, but can be done using prerecorded sound effects. Whispers... if they’re part of dialog, you do the best you can to record them in production and if that doesn’t work you’ll ADR them in post.

Good speech. But the person asked to advise him the cheapest of possible solutions. If he had a budget, he would hire professionals. The recorder ZOOM is the right choice. In addition to the stereo signal, you can also receive mono by connecting a buttonhole.
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Old 08-28-2018, 02:53 AM   #9
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But the person asked to advise him the cheapest of possible solutions.
“Least possible budget” is not the same as “cheapest of possible solutions.” He also said he wanted to get the sound right.

But whatever. After decades of working professionally with sound, what do I know?
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Old 08-28-2018, 04:37 AM   #10
Ulysses65
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“Least possible budget” is not the same as “cheapest of possible solutions.” He also said he wanted to get the sound right.

But whatever. After decades of working professionally with sound, what do I know?

A good sound is made by man, not iron. You can have very expensive equipment, but do not have a result. I do not doubt your professionalism at all. Moreover, I am sure that you would get the result and on the recorder ZOOM H1
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Old 08-28-2018, 05:02 AM   #11
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Old 08-28-2018, 12:56 PM   #12
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Are we talking about the Zoom H1 or the H1n? Yea...there mid range quality.

On what kind of camera are you gonna shoot the movie?

Last edited by Feutus Lapdance; 08-28-2018 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 08-28-2018, 03:10 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Ulysses65 View Post
A good sound is made by man, not iron.
This applies to many things but not tech sound... yup you can show up with a VHS camera and make a movie with pro sound that is a hit, but you can't show up with a Panavision and a cassette recorder. We can chalk bad visuals up to art, but not with sound. Period. It makes watching insufferable and a chore.
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Old 08-28-2018, 03:55 PM   #14
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A good sound is made by man, not iron. You can have very expensive equipment, but do not have a result. I do not doubt your professionalism at all. Moreover, I am sure that you would get the result and on the recorder ZOOM H1


Man, I was going to stay out of this, but….

pedramyz - When working on a limited budget it is always tempting to use the cheapest solutions you may find. However, the cheapest solution is, many times, not a good solution. To me, at least, the option given by Ulysses65 is like hammering in nails with a wrench; it may work, but it ain't gonna be pretty.


Your project will only look as good as it sounds, because
"Sound is half of the experience"

If your film looks terrible but has great sound, people might just think it's your aesthetic.
If your film looks great and has bad sound, people will think you're an amateur.
Sound is the first indicator to the industry that you know what you're doing.



Production sound is an art in and of itself, as are all the other aspects of sound-for-picture.

First, AcousticAl is a knowledgeable member of this forum, and his words should be heeded. So let's back up for a minute.

Production sound is the art of picking up clean, clear, intelligible dialog. A Zoom H1 or H1n IS NOT going to get you clean, clear, intelligible dialog for many of the reasons AcousticAl pointed out.

Basic production sound requires a lobar or hypercardioid mic on the end of a boom pole. The sound is recorded into an audio recording device or directly to camera. The whole "secret" of solid production sound is a properly aimed mic. The mic should be above and slightly in front of the actor(s) and aimed at the notch at the base of the actors throat. This is the job of the boom-op and is one of the most difficult jobs on the set. The boom-op must constantly adjust the aim of the mic as the actors move around. Put a camera on the end of a boom pole and try to keep it aimed at the notch at the base of the actors throat without any visual references and you now have an idea of how difficult the job of the boom-op can be.

You only have the ability to influence two of your audiences five senses - sight and sound. Use both to their fullest. More otherwise technically worthy projects are rejected because of poor sound. "Sound is half of the experience", remember?

My first suggestion to anyone involved in creating shorts or features is to retain someone competent to swing the boomed mic. "Oh! But I can't afford to hire someone!" I hear you cry. Well, there are plenty of folks just like you, starting out and in need of experience. Find him/her. It is paramount that you have someone on set whose sole job is production sound.


Before buying something investigate renting. I don't understand the obsession with owning every piece of gear needed to shoot a project; as a mentor of mine told me - if you don't use it every day you don't need to own it. With the exception of microphones most budget level (prosumer) production sound audio gear is obsolete in 18 months or so. So why buy a piece of gear that will be outmoded in less than two years when you can rent something far superior.

This is also when a knowledge of film history can be helpful. In the late 1920s/early 1930s mics were very heavy, and very noisy when handled. So the solution was "plant" mics. Perhaps you have noticed that the actors of that era were very static (did not move around much) while speaking so that they would not stray far from the plant mic. The plant mic would be placed in a flower arrangement, a telephone, a statue or on a stand just off camera.



Notice the very large plant mic on the lower right…

After the shoot is complete and the preliminary edit(s) completed it's time to do some audio post. Ideally you eliminate every sound with the exception of the dialog from the production audio. (This is where recording room tone during production is an immense help.) You then perform Foley, edit in all of the sound effects, drop in the score and source music, and then it's time to mix.

If you are truly interested in getting the sound of your project as best as you can on a micro-budget start a new thread and ask specific questions; Acoustic Al and I would be more than happy to give some basic instruction.
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Old 08-28-2018, 04:32 PM   #15
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I'm just thinking.... A zoom second hand H1 is as expensive as second hand Rode NTG-2... it will have a Impedance problem if you use a DSLR....but you know.... There are ways to deal with it.

Alcove Audio is absolutely right. Even if you had a good mic...its takes practice and time to become good at it to get good audio. Even with good Mics you can record a lot of tings like echo and unwanted noises that you don't want to record. Its your job to direct the movie... recording... you need somebody to do it.
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