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Noob questions on creating music

Time to learn a new process, the scariest of them all to me, personally: FILM MUSIC :hmm:


I can play piano and guitar for a while time (20+ years now), so the actual composing is fairy easy to me. What is killing me is the software/hardware part. I'm soo utterly confused about all of the terms and different software that is out there, and i'm so out of touch!

I have PC with adobe audition.
I also got really nice sounding EastWest Quantum Leap Orchestra software thingy, that, from what I figured out, is just a bank of sounds for my MIDI keyboard.


I hooked up my MIDI keyboard to my PC via USB and EastWest works wonderfully.

Now, the issue that I have is I'm trying to learn what do I need to use to record the music for the movie, easiest way possible? I want to layer the violin with chello, violas, etc. Since this would be my learning baby steps - lets keep the price for the software as low as possible.. I looked at different tutorials but its really difficult to follow them because they go off into different tangents that is hard to keep track of.


So, to sum it up:

I have a PC, Audition Eastwest quantum leap software and midi keyboard.
I Want to make music for the movie.
What do I need/how do I do it? (with shortest amount of steps/cheapest/stupid proof way possible).

:huh::huh::huh:
 
Most of the inexpensive music platforms are loop-based and aimed at consumers. Acid, Reason & ReCycle are the current favorites.

Although a lot of fun, for me personally I've found the inexpensive packages have clunky, less than intuitive interfaces when it comes to serious composing. Also, getting other higher end packages - such as EastWest - to integrate smoothly can be problematical, not to mention integrating video into the process.

The next level up is the "basic" package and the "add-ons" that make them more powerful. The add-ons are usually softsynths and extra plug-ins of varying quality and utility plus upgrading track counts. There are numerous levels of Cubase, for example, and you can upgrade from basic to advanced in stages.

There are many fans of Nuendo, which I've never used.

Vegas is actually pretty good, since it started out as a MIDI and then a MIDI/Digital Audio program many moons ago.

Logic is a dead platform; Apple will no longer be supporting it.

Although I am a dedicated Pro Tools user I cannot recommend it for composing; I've found it's MIDI implementation to be very substandard. Loop-based programs can be run in the background, however.

For serious composing and other music making I really love MOTU Digital Performer. Not too pricey at $500, I really love the MIDI implementation and the virtual instrument integration with the audio.


If you have "composing" in your blood it's all about finding the platform that fits your style - and can smoothly run video in addition to many MIDI, virtual instrument and audio tracks plus plug-ins. After that it's about getting your orchestral sections and other "real" instruments to sound authentic. That usually comes down to having a big budget. For instance, the Vienna Symphonic Library "Vienna Super Package" is over $6,000. You can buy it in smaller packages - strings, brass, woodwinds, percussion, etc. - but you'll "save" money if you buy them all at once. EastWest does the same thing. These are libraries of sounds for samplers, and they usually comes with a stand-alone player/sequencer.

There are literally hundreds of emulators (Pianos, Organs, Moogs, Arps, Mellotrons) and softsynths that can work as virtual instruments in most music packages.

Most composers seem to start with a basic package and add a library and a softsynth/emulator with each project that they do.


The biggest thing to remember is that music is a real-time process. The more processing power and the more RAM you have the more virtual instruments and plug-ins you can have running at the same time.
 
The best bang for buck program for you is Reaper. It will do everything you want and cost very little. Google it (Reaper) and if you go to YouTube you are bound to find lots of tutorials on how to use it.
 
I know I seem to say it quite often but unfortunately, there is no simple solution to your problem. There is relatively simple, easy to learn software but the problem with this type of software is that it's simplicity will not provide you with all the tools you need to create decent quality film music. So at some stage you will have to change software and start from scratch again.

I would agree that best bang for the buck is currently Reaper. Logic is highly favoured by film composers but is Mac only. I would say ProTools is a good choice but it has a steep learning curve and is not as flexible as Nuendo or Logic when it comes to creating manipulating MIDI. All of these programs will take a considerable amount of time/effort to learn though. What you are asking to do, compose and produce film music using piano and orchestral instruments, requires a great deal of skill and knowledge. Even the best orchestral sample libraries require a considerable amount of tweaking and understanding to get them to sound convincing.

I understand that you are looking for a simple way to do the recording/mixing part so you can concentrate on the actual composition but music recording/mixing accounts for how your composition will be perceived and in general Directors/Producers (and audiences) are not greatly knowledgeable when it comes to music. The vast majority of producers/directors will not be able to identify that the music production is weak but the composer has talent/potential. they will just hear music which doesn't sound very good and look for something else.

IMHO, you really need a change of approach and to view the recording/production side of creating film music as a long term learning/development process.

G
 
Expanding on what has been said before (but trying to still keep it simple...there's much more to all of this):

The quickest, easiest way, with what you have, is to record in Audition, one part at a time. However, from the looks of it, Audition doesn't do MIDI, so you'll want a DAW (digital audio workstation) that does. It should be able to record audio, record MIDI and host plugins (which is how you'll be using Quantum Leap) and display video. Reaper has been mentioned on the cheap (I personally don't like it). If you are Mac-based, Digital Performer is the way to go, if you are Windows based, I use Sonar, but I've heard Cubase is pretty good these days. Their MIDI implementation used to be really awful, but then again, I have some gripes with Sonar these days too. Most of them have a free trial so you can check them out, see what works best with your workflow. Many of them have "light" versions that are fairly inexpensive:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SONARX1Ess/
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/S1Artist2Bx/
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CubaseE6/
You get the point.

You will also need a good set of headphones, some good speakers and a decent interface; doubly so if you want to record some live instruments in addition to the virtual instruments (here's a tip: you do). You play guitar, so a bit of live guitar on top of a sequenced orchestra goes a long way! Then you'll need a good microphone, cables for the whole lot...did I mention this is not a cheap hobby?

Okay, so you've got the software you want to use. You've already got a controller keyboard and an orchestral library. So let's get writing!

Your DAW should be able to see your library as a VST plugin (as an "instrument" as opposed to an "effect"; more on that later). Your plugin has up to 16 channels of MIDI, which is to say, you can load up 16 different instruments and have the software play them simultaneously. Any thicker arrangements than that, and you'll have to load another instance of the plugin. We'll start basic. On channels 1-4 of the plugin, load a violin, a viola, a cello and a bass (the software provides lots of different articulations, which you'll eventually need, but we're starting basic here). In your DAW, create 4 MIDI tracks, and set the output to the plugin, and channel number 1-4. Now you've got four tracks to play, with a different instrument on each.

We'll pause for a moment...why do MIDI rather than just Audio tracks? It gives you a lot more flexibility to re-arrange and edit when you've recorded. You can go back and layer on expression and edit notes and parameters to make it sound a little more realistic. If you decide that a part might sound better on a different instrument, it's easy to switch. Furthermore, if you are collaborating, it's easy to send MIDI files back and forth. This is just the tip of the iceberg, but again, we're going basic here.

Now then, importing video. Do yourself a favor; don't work with full sized HD video. Compress the living hell out of it, reduce the resolution, make sure the framerate and audio sample rate is the same. You want to save your system resources for virtual instruments and audio tracks, and you WILL run out. Non-intuitive for a primarily visual person, but trust me on this!

Now you can see your video as you are recording. I usually set markers for hitpoints, but at the very least, where you want cues to begin and end. If you are working with a longer video, it might help to chop it up into pieces beforehand (again, you need every resource your computer has!) AudioPostExpert recently pointed out burning timecode into your video as you render, to ensure that you are dropping your score in the right places (and I still feel like an idiot for never having asked for that before). Play your parts, one at a time (or draw the notes by hand in a sheet music/piano roll view), recording the MIDI data.

Once you are happy with the music that you have, you'll need to convert the performance into audio. Depending on software, you should be able to render or bounce the MIDI data to audio. Usually you select the range and the parts that you want to bounce (so you have the option of doing the entire mix, or individual parts). Be sure to extend the range past the data, so the instruments can decay more naturally, rather than chopping off at the end.

Now you have audio; you can mix and add effects (such as reverb or EQ) and get it to sound the way you want it to. Be sure at this stage to mute the VST, otherwise you'll be hearing both the recorded audio and the instrument playing your MIDI data. When you are finished, you can export it to a .wav file, then mix in with the rest of your audio the way you usually do.

I think that covers most of the basics, but feel free to ask if you have any more specific questions, once you get going with a particular DAW. Be forewarned: there is a LOT to learn, both on the technical level and the creative level. Writing good film score is not the same as writing good music. I've been doing it for a few years now (after about 10 years experience in home recording) and I'm still a bit of a noob myself. That doesn't mean you shouldn't do it...just be prepared for a long road! Learn EVERYTHING you can from everyone you can. Ask questions. Write, write and rewrite.
 
Oh my! This is perfect, alcove, joshL and audio post - thank very very much for shinning some light on my question! It's definitely a huge help to me.
I don't want to go into extreme details of composing, just enough to get me by to make scratches of musical themes that I could give to a potential composer for my further prohects, if needed.

Again, that you everyone, and I will jump into the learning curve as soon as I ll get home.
 
Oh my! This is perfect, alcove, joshL and audio post - thank very very much for shinning some light on my question! It's definitely a huge help to me.
I don't want to go into extreme details of composing, just enough to get me by to make scratches of musical themes that I could give to a potential composer for my further prohects, if needed.

Again, that you everyone, and I will jump into the learning curve as soon as I ll get home.



I'm glad you are attempting that. Usually directors just kind of shrug off a score as a little less than essential. I know they are aware that it makes a difference, but it can make or break your movie, and I'm not just saying that because I am a composer. I am saying this from the standpoint of a viewer.

I came in this forum to help you out, but everyone else seems to have you covered. I can throw in my two cents though and hope it'll help. I personally use cubase for all of my music productions. It's my favorite DAW. I also use east west stuff, and it's great. So you're on the right path as far as vst instruments go. Although I end up using stuff from the Native Instruments Komplete bundle quite often, as well as stuff from Heavyocity. But that's just some instruments and brands I suggest.

As far as composing goes, in a DAW, you are going to want to learn the ins and outs of midi sequencing. This is pretty much what makes your orchestra sound real or fake. Even though EastWest is awesome, there is still work to be done. An orchestra doesn't just statically hit a note and stay at the same velocity. so for long notes you're going to want to load up a patch that has a mod wheel control. This allows you to control the velocity (how hard/loud the string is bowed, or the horn is blown) and will make for a much more convincing performance when the velocity is drawn in. Also, you can draw in "expression" the same way, which is kind of like a subvolume control and you usually want this to flow the same as your modulation. And one thing to remember, always, is that ORCHESTRAL INSTRUMENTS DON'T PLAY THE SAME AS A PIANO. Notes can be spread out for different chord voicings. You may want to switch things around; putting the fifth as the highest note, for example.

Hope some of his helped! Good luck on your further endeavors!
 
Damn. That's getting a bit too overwhelming for me, but I ll work on it! I lnow there is a lot of trial and error coming my way, but I have several precious projects that I ve stripped All the music out off so I get to practice.

Thank you again!



Crap!! Almost forgot; michael Allen - my sound cart is crap, and it's one of those that is imbedded into the mother board. Working with minimal resources here haha
 
Well once again... You seem pretty well covered by all these posts but I will add a couple of things too:

"Once you are happy with the music that you have, you'll need to convert the performance into audio."
I don't do this because I like to mix and tweak at the same time. You can do it either way.

I use Reaper too and I love it. I've actually made some tutorials for it so let me know if you're interested.

It's been said but I want to reinforce the idea that composing is just one aspect of the job. You need to learn audio production too. How and when to use compression, EQ, reverb, all that stuff. If you already know how to compose then concentrate on learning this side of things more or be forewarned, nobody will enjoy your work. The 99% of the population who have no knowledge of musical production will not be able to see the wood for the trees - if your composition is amazing but your production sucks, people will not care for your work.

;)
 
Crap!! Almost forgot; michael Allen - my sound cart is crap, and it's one of those that is imbedded into the mother board. Working with minimal resources here haha

Chances are the soundcard you have does not have ASIO capabilities so you will need to get a soundcard that does. Without ASIO you will most likely have terrible latency problems that will be really prohibitive.

Should be able to get something workable for a few hundred or less.
 
My favorite sequencing/recording software is the one that my composer uses. Dima, I know that you know that I'm a HUGE fan of your filmmaking. But we don't all need to be Clint Eastwood. You're a brilliant filmmaker, and your films will only benefit by you allowing someone else to do the music. I apologize if this comment is sort of dick-ish, I only mean well. :)
 
haha its all good, CF. Thank for your kind compliment! I just had a musical theme stuck in my head for a while now for my main heroine and want to hear how it actually sounds in the real life. It might suck - it might not. But I won't know till i'll try haha
Of course, i'm not planning on doing no Zimmer, just a couple of blues guitar slides, some sexy violas, basic cellos..


quick progress upgrade: I finally got Reaper + EWQL + guitar going all together (fiew!) and imported low res video as it has been suggested by JoshL. Everything works great!

Thank you for all your help everyone.
 
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