COMPOSER NEEDED

Hi Matte.

I have been a composer for the last 7 years, and have been doing it professionally since April 2003. I can write in any style, and can even do foley / voice over's if you need them.

How long is your film, and do you know what style(s) you want for it? You can listen to samples of my work at http://www.ryerson-sound.com and, if you're interested, feel free to email me.

And yes, I can work for free :)
 
Matte,

I am one of the composers for the Saturday morning cartoon "The Shaman King" on FOX TV, among other things. Please remember, most good composers won't work for free. I'd hate to see a filmaker ruin a good film with a bad, but "free", score. The music score can make or break a film.

I do not work for free but I am pretty reasonable. Check out my site at www.StephenKaminskiMusic.com for music clips, etc.

And are you in California or Canada? There are a few Winnipegs out there. I am in the NY area.

Stephen Kaminski
 
Hutch,

Sorry, I guess I should have said "Good composers SHOULDN'T work for free." Film scoring is a professional craft and a business. You get what you pay for. You live with what you get for free.

Stephen K.
 
Hi Stephen,

I took no offense at your post. I would respectfully disagree with you though - and so would John Williams by the way. At the level that most people are at on this board, working for free is a matter of building relationships. In the long term that can be more lucrative than the limited dollars you might make from an indie filmmaker for a low budget project.

Case and point: I had a friend in college who was a film major. I met him because we both played in the college symphonic band together. He went looking for someone to score a student film he produced. All my friends wanted him to pay them. I, in turn, asked him how much he would charge me for the opportunity! :D

A few years later, he did a film starring well known actors Tippi Hedren and Troy Donahue. He called me and provided me an opportunity to score the film. The main theme won best theme at the Milan Italy Film Festival that year. And, it all started by doing something for free.

My basic position with indie filmmakers is - if your project makes money, I expect to receive a "share" of the profits. If it doesn't, then no harm done to anyone and we've all learned something from our experience and built new relationships for future projects.

By the way, as I mentioned earlier, I heard an interview with John Williams about a year or two ago. He was asked, "what do you recommend for musicians who aspire to score films?" He generally responded by saying to build relationships with filmmakers so that you can grow with their success. At the "indie" level, I don't think there could be any better advice. In fact, despite my paying projects, I recently offered to do the score for a junior high kid's student film. Although he never completed it, I would have gladly scored it.

While I respect your position (the same thing they told me to do in college) I have chosen to adopt a different strategy that has served me well. Sure, our work is worth pay. In fact, so is the work of the cast and crew on an indie. But free work can be an excellent "investment" for the potential future opportunity to work in larger budget projects.

Regards,

Hutch DeLoach

www.digitalsoundtracks.com
 
Hutch, Matte, and all,

You're right on all aspects where developing a relationship with filmmakers is concerned. That's been my plan for the past twenty years.

I've done many student films, for free, and many of them have called on me for projects once they've graduated, for pay. But the film in question is a feature film, not a 15-minute project. And I'm afraid I draw the line and think that filmmakers should plan on at least some kind of music budget if they will put forth the effort to make a full feature. Sony doesn't give out cameras to filmmakers for free and then hope for back-end money later if the project goes somewhere. Composers have expenses, especially in doing a score for a feature film, even if it's an electronic score. Filmmakers need to understand what kind of time is involved, not to mention the cost of a production studio that will produce the score.

Besides, I think you'll agree that being a good composer doesn't make one a good film composer. It's a specialized craft all it's own. A budget for a good score should always be planned on from the beginning.


SK
 
Sorry, I guess I should have said "Good composers SHOULDN'T work for free." Film scoring is a professional craft and a business. You get what you pay for. You live with what you get for free.

I disagree with the last bit. It suggests that professionals giving their time for free are not committed to the project. I think it is alright, and in fact I am doing it myself, for a non-professional to offer what they can afford, and what they have determined is a reasonable fee, perhaps pocket money for some, for a service. I don't think it is reasonable to expect people with indie films to pay the top rates. If someone offered me $50 to write them a letter I would write it gladly and commit myself to every word in it.
 
Stephen,

It sounds like you are a good businessman and that will always be a great benefit to you. I don't disagree with you at a fundamental level, but I would simply add that, beyond a business and a craft, film scoring is also an art and we do our art out of passion and a love for it first. In my opinion, this is why so much free work is being done out there. Any person in his/her right mind would love to be paid for their efforts, but the artist does it first and foremost out of his/her passion for it.

By the way, I would gladly score a feature too, at no cost, if I thought the feature had promise. I guess part of it is that I write my best music when I'm writing with a purpose instead of just composing a random piece that has no immediate target. I'm am continually amazed to find that I rise above my skill level when a visual image begins to inspire a theme in me. It's a 'high' like none other I know.

Best wishes to you on your future projects! Great dialog here!

Regards,

Hutch
 
Hutch,

Thanks as well for the great dialog. Judging from the hits it looks like we had an audience.

Passion for the music is always all-important, I agree. Some of my favorite scores have been for the student films I did for free. But I still think that a filmmaker should always plan on a music budget for a feature film.

Yes, it's an art. And we do it for the love of it. But if you owned an original Picasso, for the sake of the art, would you give it away? Should someone else expect you too?

Thanks again for the great dialog. Your site is pretty nice, too. Good luck with everything....

Stephen K.
 
Stephen Kaminski said:
But if you owned an original Picasso, for the sake of the art, would you give it away? Should someone else expect you too?
Click to expand...

I guess the place where we differ is that you call it "giving away" your work and I call it just one more "opportunity" to "invest" in the "possibilities" and to do something that I love with passion and heart.

The key word for me is "invest". I'm investing in myself and in someone else at the same time when I contribute to their project. Additionally, I receive the immediate gratification of doing good work and contributing to a good effort.

In your defense, no one can just go and spend all their time working for free. I'll give you that. But, like I said before, I have a job that pays my bills very nicely (and in fact provides me the capability to fund my own productions) so we're probably looking at this "question" from two very different perspectives.

By the way, would love to hear some of your work sometime...

Regards,

Hutch
 
There's been some great discussion going on here - I kinda feel a bit sorry for Matte though, having his thread stolen like this! :P

Seroiusly though, there is always a balance between our love and passion for our art, and keeping body and soul together. I personally would love to be in a position to work just for pleasure, but bills must be paid somewhere along the line. So, there's balance.

As for films making a music budget - how much of a budget can you get for music from a shoestring? :P There will always be a gradation of money available for any project, ranging from none to Hollywood figures (I don't think I can count that high, personally....) Likewise, there will always be a gradation of composers, who fit the necessary budgets nicely.

Interesting to see if people dis/agree or not (including any non-composers who are reading these posts!)

Take care all,

Barry
 
Hey, we didn't steal his thread. We were just trying to provide his request with the attention that it deserves. :D
 
Just thought I would chime in on this with some experience on the freebie scoring. Not meaning to rant 'n rave on Matte's thread.

I've done many short films for free to build relationships (which I continue now to get paid work from) but recently it seems nowadays that composers are taken for granted. Myself and others have still offered to work for free to build those relationships but it's a little disheartening to know that everyone else on board may be getting paid (DPs, actors, editors, etc.) on certain projects.

My latest experience ... I took a job on a short film (with a tight deadline) for free being told that everyone else was doing the same. I came across an ad posted by the same director & company in search of a sound designer but were willing to pay them for their services. I then contacted the director & said a few things and got off the project. Turns out I knew of the editor as well ... she was getting paid too!!! Good thing I didn't spend much time on the film. How unfortunate things like this must happen.
 
It's always a difficult job, balancing getting the credits (and therefore no money) and actually getting paid. And, or course, some directors/producers see people making music for free, and wonder why they can't get the same from others who actually have the experience.

Personally, when I do a film for free, I tend to work out how much I would charge, and then apply a 100% discount. This way, the producers get to see how much the music is actually "worth", and realise that they are getting a boon of a 100% discount. It makes it easier to reduce the level of discount in the future (rather than the "but you did it for free for us last time" scenario)

Perhaps we should set up our own thread somewhere, just for composing banter? I personally would be very interested in continuing chatting with you guys more.

Take it easy,

Barry
 
over a year ago i started a scoring band entitled it lives within..... it was started form passion (and if i make money then even better), but it's all about getting together with some friends and composing some truly gratifying music. i have been in bands for welll over 15 years and until recently, i hooked up with a producer and now we are a passionate band. we recently recruited a drummer, and we can range many different styles (prog, orchestral, old school drive in, 70's ambient, metal, punk, whatever. we are getting our name out as much as we can so free is still good for us (how else do you get recognized). we have a cd coming out on www.meridian-music.com entitled the terror begins. the more we jam, the more we progress. i'll do it for free if i have to, i love it way to much to tell people we wont do it unless we charge. music is my life and i'll do it whether i get paid or not.
 
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