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Question about framing actors for 'line of sight'.

H

harmonica44

I have been told before on a short film that when it comes to cutting from a close up of one actor to a close up of another, that their line of sight does not match. As in they look like they are looking in slightly different directions. Which is odd since they were looking at each other during shooting.

How do you shoot a scene with two actors so you have a close up of each but they look like they are looking at each other. Here's an example from Dr. Strangelove.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1KvgtEnABY

Both close ups are differently framed. One is from under the chin of Jack Ripper and is a bit of a dutch angle.

The shot of Mandrake is from a corner angle, is a little more of a profile shot. But they look like they are looking right at each other, even though the close up framings are at different angles. So how does one do it properly so that the audience believes they are looking at each other. This can be tricky, even if both actors are doing so, it can still not look that way in my experience.

Thanks.
 
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In the example you posted, Jack D Ripper is looking up and to the left of camera, and Mandrake is looking down and to the right of camera. As long as you don't cross the line, you shouldn't have too much issue. If you look closely, Mandrake's eyeline is actually a little above Jack's head, but the audience buys it as looking right into Jack's eyes. At that angle, I would imagine having him look down enough as he might do in normal life would look a bit strange. We often cheat actor's eyelines so they look more natural on camera, even though they're totally unrealistic in the real life situation.

All it takes is a bit of thinking on the day. It does help if you have a script supervisor.
 
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Okay thanks. But even on the shoots I did before I was told that the footage does not look like they are looking at each other when in fact they are.

So let's say I have two actors in a scene. I want to do a close up of each, and they are going to act with each other as I do so. Should I tell the actor on camera, to look at a different point even though, he would not be looking at the other actor? Wouldn't this be hard for actors or become distracting in their performance, or are experienced actors use to it? And what if you want to shoot a mastershot with a different camera at the same time? Would the eyelines not matching, show in the master possibly?
 
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harmonica44 said:
Should I tell the actor on camera, to look at a different point even though, he would not be looking at the other actor? Wouldn't this be hard for actors or become distracting in their performance, or are experienced actors use to it? And what if you want to shoot a mastershot with a different camera at the same time? Would the eyelines not matching, show in the master possibly?
Click to expand...

1) It depends

2) No. I had actors looking at tripods with no camera :-p
A good actor should be able to act.

3) Use your brain: if you can see in a mastershot they don't look at each other, it indeed looks like they are't looking at each other :P

I think your question has to do with your framing.
 
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Sounds like you're crossing the line. If you're not crossing the line, you shouldn't be having much of these issues.

You'll need to use your brain a bit on the day - with a DSLR you can even playback the previous shot, so you can see where your actor needs to look on the next shot to make it match. SOmetimes that's right at the person, other times it's at a completely different spot, or a spot right near the camera. When I AC, I generally use a bit of camera tape with a smiley face on it as an eyeline for the actor if their eyeline is to be near camera. A lot of times when ACing, the eyeline is actually me, or somewhere on my body (I'll usually put camera tape on myself then). An experienced actor should have no issue acting.

It all depends on your shots and framing. Some shots will require a cheating of the eyeline. Often, you're even cheating entire positions for OTS' and shots like that. Other times, you wont' need to.
 
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On of the problems I had was that there was no master shot to begin the scene - I didn't realise that they were sitting at the same desk, and thought the older man was further away.

The bigger issue is that the shots of the older man appear to be from the perspective of the younger one, but the older is looking to our left - apparently away from the younger and towards the end of the desk.
 
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Okay thanks. There is a master shot, I just didn't show the whole scene.

This is odd though, and this is what I am talking about. The actors were looking right at each other when I shot it, so how do I make it so they look like they are on camera? Apparently the old man looks like he is looking off to his left, when he is looking right at him during shooting, so how do I make it that way in camera? Is their a rule of thumb for this?
 
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The reason is because, as you have shown that the younger man sits down on (our) right - when you cut to a shot that is very similar to his perspective, we assume that it is his perspective - especially since the camera movements of the first shot emulate him sitting down.
You could either frame the younger man to one side in the foreground, or use a completely different angle that could not be mistaken for a POV shot (such as the second shot - which is well above and to one side of the table).
 
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They both sit in the right side of the frame.
The framing and camera position in relation to the axis between the 2 characters are off.
We never saw how they are positioned in relation to each other. A mastershot or 1 charactr in foreground could have helped.
Study scenes that do work.
Make a map. Analyse framing, position and 'point of gaze'.
 
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The example you gave from El Marachi works because their spatial relationships are established by lines of sight that are in response to an action. For instance - the man walks into the bar, and the bartender looks up. He double takes and reacts, and when we cut back to the man it is obvious where he is in relation to the bartender. The man looks to the right, and there is a shot of a table of customers who look up at him. There is no master shot showing them together, but from this we know where they all are.
 
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"We often cheat actor's eyelines so they look more natural on camera, even though they're totally unrealistic in the real life situation."

^^ This.

It's another of the million things the director, DP and script supervisor have to be aware of and account for. Sometimes I'll have to quickly go back and review the master to make sure we are getting it right. I too have had actors delivering to a plastic cup held by a PA to keep their eye line where we need it.
 
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