Community Project

NickClapper

NickClapper

My greatest regret, during my time on IndieTalk, has been my failure to get a community project off the ground. We came pretty close with the organ lottery project, but it never quite worked out. The past few days has seen a new member trying to get another community project off the ground, but is, I suspect, going to fall into a number of inevitable traps.

I am currently studying for the final exams of my academic career (*sob*) so am just sitting in libraries all day, every day. I'd like something to break it up a little bit (in addition to the couple of projects I am, slowly, working on). So I've come up with a new way to do a community project.

If you would like to participate in this project as a director (or in a shooting capacity), I need the following information out of you:

What actors are at your disposal? [i.e. two men and a woman]
What locations are at your disposal? [i.e. a house, a bar, an abandoned quarry]
Can you record decent quality sound? [i.e. yes]
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Please be conservative with your responses. In order for this project to be realistic and work, I need to be sure that people can (and will) shoot their scenes in the allocated manner.

Once I have a bunch of participants, I will go away and write a short script that incorporates these various shooting units into a single coherent story. I will ensure that no member has more than a maximum of two days shooting (though generally will try and keep it to what can be done in a single day). If you cannot record decent quality sound, I will give you no dialogue to shoot. Everything will be kept as simple as possible (within the constraints of a very tricky project!) so that we have the maximum chance of success.

Additionally, if you are not willing to direct (or arrange the production of) a shooting unit, there are loads of other roles that are required:

Composer
Editor - individual units should edit their scenes but a central editor will put it all together and try and ensure that the editing matches throughout.
Post-sound
VFX - will not be VFX heavy, but we can incorporate some if there's someone who can supply the talent.
Marketing - with so many cooks, would be great to have someone responsible for pushing the film.
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In order to make this attempt as successful as possible, I will only accept forum regulars into the scheme. New members (and I'm talking people who've only been around a few weeks) are welcome to input and help out, but it is of paramount importance that I know people will stick around and see their unit through to completion.

The deadline for signing up is 18th April 2014, giving people two weeks, after which we will allocate two months (and a bit) to complete production of your scenes, meaning a shooting deadline of 30th June 2014. As I have said, should be no more than a day of filming over the course of two months, so if you can't commit to that then please don't!

I really hope this works, and I think it can. Let me know if you have any thoughts and get signing up!

Current units:
David.rhsc (San Francisco, USA)
cheeseandachallenge (Wellington, New Zealand)
Cracker Funk (Richmond, USA)
wheatgrinder
Flicker Pictures (Boston, USA)
mad_hatter (Birmingham, England)
Dreadylocks (Omaha, USA)
Lucky Hardwood (New Orleans, USA)
ChimpPhobiaFilms (Ohio, USA)

Fence-sitting-maybe-merchants:
WalterB
Dreadylocks
sfoster
mad_hatter
ChimpPhobiaFilms
ItDonnedOnMe
jax_rox
Flicker Pictures

Music team
JoshL
mike mcguill

Sound team
mike mcguill

Sound maybes
AudioPostExpert
Alcove Audio

Marketing maybes
RayW

And remember to fill in this form if you want to have a shooting unit in the film!

(Of course, if you're local to an existing unit, why not team up?)
 
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UFO is done can check it out here on vimeo. Its 4s long hopefully its long enough.

PW is 'UFO'

https://vimeo.com/101249672

Here is a Screenshot

tumblr_n918r3GIw21tn7wkzo1_1280.jpg
 
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Jooble said:
UFO is done can check it out here on vimeo. Its 4s long hopefully its long enough.

PW is 'UFO'

https://vimeo.com/101249672
Click to expand...

:clap:

Looks magnificent. I love the way you can't really tell whether the craft is on fire or just fuelling itself. That plays really nicely into the film's themes of knowing what/whether to fear.

We do need a tad more build-up before the craft reveal. 4 seconds is fine in terms of the amount we see the spaceship, but the video needs to have that build-up of tension. Could we add 10-20 or so seconds of footage at the beginning and then maybe have a glitch of something before the craft reveal?

I think this will be epic with some cool sound design. Alcove? APE? Mike McGuill?
 
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Cool glad you like it. I can add some of the footage before to extend it, question is do I reveal the ufo with an effect or make it more of a cut so the glitch is a transition to seeing the UFO? Part of me thinks a visual wipe reveal is a bit ott and editing together with some glitches will have a better effect, giving it that disjointed found footage feel. Would be nice to get an opinion on this either way is cool with me. :)
 
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Jooble said:
Cool glad you like it. I can add some of the footage before to extend it, question is do I reveal the ufo with an effect or make it more of a cut so the glitch is a transition to seeing the UFO? Part of me thinks a visual wipe reveal is a bit ott and editing together with some glitches will have a better effect, giving it that disjointed found footage feel. Would be nice to get an opinion on this either way is cool with me. :)
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I think that the more authentic we can make it the better, so I think that the glitch suggestion would work nicely.

If we play some footage at the beginning and then, after a few seconds, add some minor glitching, then some bigger glitching, then a glitch which leads into the craft reveal, and then the video, after 4 seconds, glitches off. All this will be supplemented with the sound design.

Does that make sense? :D
 
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Footage looks awesome, congratulations! I really like the glitching too.

Sound design-wise, I'd definitely be thinking less about creating an amazing-sounding spaceship, and more thinking about what mechanical effects an object like this would have on a real sound recording of it. Much like the visual glitching, that'll be the key to authenticity for me.

E.g. maybe the energy coming off it is so overwhelming that the camera mic is just completely distorted. Or maybe the spin creates some sort of strange interference pattern on the recording (a bit like when an incoming cellphone signal gets picked up by by a speaker) or glitchy digital errors.

It'll also depend on the narrative context as well, of course. For example, another way to go might be thinking about what's going on around it. The sound of a cacophony of terrified wildlife might be cool, for example. Or approaching police sirens. Depending on where we are geographically and what the story is doing.

Apologies if this is merely stating the obvious... :)
 
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Just a thought:
the spinning is extreme: the aliens will be so nautious they can't pose a threat for weeks to come :P
The spinning looks like a helicopter crashing in autogyro.

Another thought: are flames the way to go?
Such propulsion only works in an atmosphere with oxygen.
Maybe a plasma glowing looks more 'real'?
Or combustion in the center and glow in the ring? (just a thought)
And while I'm thinking about it: is it possible to only rotate the part below the ring of fire?

Now the UFO looks something like 60ft/20m in diameter. (I guestimated it with the elk)
Can the size be doubled?

What will the end of the video be?
Big glitch?
Big glitch and then the phone lies on the ground?
Will the UFO stop moving, or will it move forward over the hills? (The latter might be more logical: Laura needs input to calculte landingsite) Does the video stop before it moves that far? Or does it glich and freeze again to point the phone higher again?

The glitches work very well!
Can we use it to make transitions: as if the recording got stuck for a second or 2.
That gives us the oppurtunity for the following:

The elk are being filmed.
A sound appraoches (from behind), the elk start running and first glitch appears.
The phone is pointed up to the sky as the UFO flies over.
Since that movement isn't present in the footage I think glitches with freezed frames plus the video moved down with added sky above it can make the approach really impressive.
Thanks to the freezing that movement up and down doesn't have to be smooth.
As the UFO moves over the phone, the distance increases again: the amount of freezing and glitches decreases again (a bit).
The phone is pointed forward again where the UFO is going/hoovering.

About screaming wildlife:
my experience is that most animals become quite (the insects and whistling birds). Crows tend to warn first.
 
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I'll take a stab at the sound design of the UFO sequence(s). It'll be highly dependent upon the final cut of the "phone" footage.

If the UFO is going to be loud then all of the "commentary" by the observers needs to be screamed/yelled very loudly.



The "motivation" of the UFO is important. From our point of view as the filmmakers, is it real or a hoax? The UFO wobbling looks very fake to me, like a cheap 50s B movie with a UFO model on a string. If it's supposed to be a hoax, that's okay. But if it's real it could be UFO in distress, but would need to be more realistically portrayed.

This all has a bearing on the sound design; there would be difference in the way I approach it.


BTW, is this going to be the only footage of the UFO, or will there be more?
 
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Alcove Audio said:
BTW, is this going to be the only footage of the UFO, or will there be more?
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Well, I shot extra footage we can use as bonus stuff on YouTube/DVD: part 1 of the TV show that is being recorded at the Pyramid. I got an eye-witness claiming he has seen the same UFO a few days earlier at night.
Haven't discussed it yet with Tom, but I have the footage to make another homevideo with the UFO.

But this has no priority over the rest. It's a bonus.
 
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Yeah, Laura is seen doing calculus, so movement would make more sense if possible (even though it probably doesn't matter that much).

Alcove Audio said:
The "motivation" of the UFO is important. From our point of view as the filmmakers, is it real or a hoax? The UFO wobbling looks very fake to me, like a cheap 50s B movie with a UFO model on a string. If it's supposed to be a hoax, that's okay. But if it's real it could be UFO in distress, but would need to be more realistically portrayed.
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I also agree with Alcoves comments. Perhaps distressing the video even more (or is that too much) could help? Not making it more glitchy, but just more noisy and lower res, perhaps?
 
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I think the footage looks great. The wobbling and the fire don't really bother me, because I like the fleeting suggestion that maybe the ship is in distress. I think that raises some really interesting questions about whether it's a threat or whether they are threatened.

I do agree with Walter that the craft looks a little on the small size, especially given the fact that it appears to be somewhat advanced from the treelike. Maybe it would look more 'realistic' if it was a bit bigger, but that's a relatively small concern.

I wouldn't be against further distressing the footage, but I do think it looks sweet at the moment. To cook up this quality of work in just a week is really impressive and I'm so grateful that you stood in at the eleventh hour.

re:SOUND – Alcove, do you want to wait until we have a completed version of this before starting on the sound? Hopefully, if all goes well at Jooble's end, we'll be ready in not too long. I think that, as Mike observes, there are two areas of the sound design – the sound of the ship and the environment, and then the distress to the microphone on the phone. I think it'll sound really cool, especially with the sound glitches matching the visual glitching.
 
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Hey, I get where your coming from with the movement. But this is a cool vs realism thing, where in film realism means nothing... if it did every hero would die in the first 5 seconds. I would rather in context when someone is watching the film to think its cool and interesting than a static UFO with people appreciating the realism of the movement in the air. Not saying the animation is perfect, and it is a little fast i guess but im not going to render the CG for another 13 hours :P already done it 3 times fixing stuff, don't have the time.

I will try degrading the footage a little more that's a good call and will 'edit' it as best i can to make it interesting. From there I think sound will add a lot to it and from experience when its in the film people wont see the problems you have mentioned.

and...

The UFO wobbling looks very fake to me, like a cheap 50s B movie with a UFO model on a string
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I laughed, so harsh :P
 
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Jooble said:
....................... But this is a cool vs realism thing, where in film realism means nothing... ......................
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Obviously we failed to brief you properly.
The whole short falls apart when it lacks any form of realism.
Every viewer will think: "Right, what's all that fuzz about, it's obviously not real."

Or at least: that's my view on it...
 
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^^as above. We don't/didn't have the resources for a flashy, impressive, "cool" sci-fi. It's a sci-fi rooted in drama, focussing on the human reaction/impact/emotions in response to this event. A lot of the responses don't make sense unless it is believable. I don't know if it needs that much work. I think a little more detail in the lighting on the UFO (I think there should be more shadow on the bottom) and a slightly less frantic animation would just about do the trick.

I agree that movement isn't necessary (even though it'd make more sense it probably isn't a noticable error) - though if you are inclined to "cool", movement would probably look cooler?
 
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I was more making a point with the cool vs realism don't take it as if that's my no 1 rule its just something to conciser. thing i'm not making 'Michael Bay cool' a better word is interesting. Audiences expect a certain thing with UFO's based on what they have seen in the past I have been going for what I would imagine people expect. If it was static I imagined the impact of it would be less threatening and less chaotic that's why I added movement. To give a feeling of unpredictability uncertainty and chaos when seeing a UFO this couldn't be portrayed with a static ufo
 
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Alcove Audio said:
I'll take a stab at the sound design of the UFO sequence(s). It'll be highly dependent upon the final cut of the "phone" footage.
Click to expand...

NickClapper said:
re:SOUND – Alcove, do you want to wait until we have a completed version of this before starting on the sound? Hopefully, if all goes well at Jooble's end, we'll be ready in not too long. I think that, as Mike observes, there are two areas of the sound design – the sound of the ship and the environment, and then the distress to the microphone on the phone. I think it'll sound really cool, especially with the sound glitches matching the visual glitching.
Click to expand...

I certainly have no objection to Alcove doing the sound and sound design for the UFO sequence. However, I'm not entirely clear whether any of these sequences are going to be included in the actual film? If they are included, there are sound design implications/ramifications for the sound design of the UFO sequences relative to the film. Even if they are not included, there could still be ramifications.

I would like to see the final edit of this "phone" footage and have a much clearer understanding of it's relationship and/or use in the film itself. I will then have a clearer idea of whether Alcove and I need a chat about this phone footage and if so, what we need to chat about.

G
 
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Jooble said:
............Audiences expect a certain thing with UFO's based on what they have seen in the past I have been going for what I would imagine people expect. If it was static I imagined the impact of it would be less threatening and less chaotic that's why I added movement. To give a feeling of unpredictability uncertainty and chaos when seeing a UFO this couldn't be portrayed with a static ufo
Click to expand...

I now understand why you did i.
It doesn't work for me.
It wobbles and spins like mad, but doesn't crash... Makes no sense to me. It doesn't make it threatening for me, just chaotic in a fake circus kind of way. While the UFO it self looks real enough. (Although I posted some remarks about the flames and spinning that I think would improve the design. :P )

An UFO twice that size flying over the phone and moving in a calm 'arrogant' manner is more in line of what I would expect the audience expects.

BTW, send you DM about the background video in regard to creating a flyover.
 
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Guys, if an audience are willing to suspend their disbelief that a UFO might exist, they'll be willing to suspend their disbelief that a video might go viral. This is a no-budget short and the VFX are never going to be perfect, but Jooble has done a great job at stepping in after a lot of missed opportunities with this opening video and creating something that's original and distinctive.

I'm going to discuss things with Jooble and tweak the video in the places it can be tweaked. Obviously, his time is valuable, but we'll take onboard the criticisms here and try and make the relevant changes.

But first and foremost, I think it needs to be stressed that this is a really cool piece of work.
 
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Yeah, I agree it is cool, and I really so appreciate Jooble stepping up at the last minute. I didn't mean to sound unappreciative (as neither Walter or Alcove did I presume), we're all trying to make the best film we can hence making suggestions for areas of improvement.
 
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