I am looking at buying a new camera. As you might be able to tell from the title, I'm looking on the upper low end of prosumer/entry pro type of gear. Keep in mind that I have no illusions of becoming a professional cinematographer. I have a number of projects that may or may not be distributed publicly. I am also a still photographer and am semi-heavily invested in Canon EF glass. The Canon 1Dx, Canon 5D mkiii, and the Black Magic are all compatible with the lenses I already own, which would save me money. The Red shoots 4K raw, which is nice and maybe useful in the future, but is pretty much overkill for now. I don't want to be looking at upgrading again in 2 years. I might still do it, but I don't want to have to. The Canons both shoot stills, which I do a fair amount of. The 1Dx has dual Digic 5+ processors and larger pixels than the 5D mkiii, but somewhat lower resolution (18mp vs 22mp). I figure to have a budget in the $10k range. I know the 1Dx is the best choice for stills despite the lower resolution, and the Red is the better choice for video. I have still cameras, so I don't really need the new camera to shoot stills. I like the idea of being able to carry around one camera and shoot both still or video depending upon what catches my fancy at the moment. Realistically, I most likely won't be doing much spontaneous video shooting. For my serious projects, I intend to rent whatever camera is best for the shoot and hire an experienced DP to run it. I'm not worried about in camera sound because I will hire a professional sound guy/crew for anything that needs real sound production. I am considering getting into a very niche aspect of film-making that may be quite profitable. This is while I am still pursuing the sale of a couple of TV shows and funding for two feature films that I wrote. I probably won't pull the trigger on anything until the beginning of next year because I may not have time to start this side business if my other projects take off like my producer friend thinks that they will. I guess my question is, if you were me, what camera would you buy and why that particular one?
Canon 1Dx vs Red vs Black Magic vs ?
- Thread starter Lucky Hardwood
- Start date
I assume you're talking about the Red Scarlet?
Blackmagic is certainly the cheapest, but of course you need lenses and I have no idea how much they are. Especially if you're a photographer mainly, and you already have the Canon lenses, the 1Dx certainly seems like the best option for you
I don't particularly have an answer, but I am curious to see what others have to say.
Blackmagic is certainly the cheapest, but of course you need lenses and I have no idea how much they are. Especially if you're a photographer mainly, and you already have the Canon lenses, the 1Dx certainly seems like the best option for you
I don't particularly have an answer, but I am curious to see what others have to say.
You kinda answered your own question...
I'm pretty sure you just decided that the 1Dx is the way to go
If you really want my opinion - The Red is way out of your $10k price range, unless you're talking a RED One, which is 5 years old and more than superceded by now. You say you don't want to be upgrading in two years, but if you were to buy a RED One, you'd be buying old technology to begin with. The RED One is also a temperemental as hell camera, and one that I dislike shooting video on, let alone attempting to shoot stills on (well, you wouldn't really).
Video DSLRs were designed for the stills photographer who wanted to take a bit of video out on the job. The 5DmkIII and 1Dx both sound like fine options to me - they both produce great video imagery.
The Blackmagic camera does take EF lenses, but crops the hell out of them so there's that. Then there's the whole deal of grading everything you do - you couldn't simply just capture some footage to look at later, you'd have to completely post process it and apply a LUT at the very least (as with the RED).
You mention that for any serious project, you'd hire the right camera and a DP anyway, so it's not like that is going to dictate your choice.
You also mention that the 1Dx is better for stills and it certainly takes just as good video as a 5DmkIII.
So, I'd go for the 1Dx.
As is the Red, btw
Too bad, IMO - the new cameras and technologies seem to be coming out about every 6 months. That said, the Red One is 5 years old and still useable, the 5Dmkii is 4 years old and still useable. Hell, I've got a 10 year old Sony HDV camera that is still 100% useable.
and also shoots more than simply 'acceptable' video.
Meaning that any investment into a camera is for a camera that's merely there for a bit of fun.
I'm pretty sure you just decided that the 1Dx is the way to go
If you really want my opinion - The Red is way out of your $10k price range, unless you're talking a RED One, which is 5 years old and more than superceded by now. You say you don't want to be upgrading in two years, but if you were to buy a RED One, you'd be buying old technology to begin with. The RED One is also a temperemental as hell camera, and one that I dislike shooting video on, let alone attempting to shoot stills on (well, you wouldn't really).
Video DSLRs were designed for the stills photographer who wanted to take a bit of video out on the job. The 5DmkIII and 1Dx both sound like fine options to me - they both produce great video imagery.
The Blackmagic camera does take EF lenses, but crops the hell out of them so there's that. Then there's the whole deal of grading everything you do - you couldn't simply just capture some footage to look at later, you'd have to completely post process it and apply a LUT at the very least (as with the RED).
You mention that for any serious project, you'd hire the right camera and a DP anyway, so it's not like that is going to dictate your choice.
You also mention that the 1Dx is better for stills and it certainly takes just as good video as a 5DmkIII.
So, I'd go for the 1Dx.
Hi Lucky - If BM can solve their delivery challenges, the $2995 Black Magic Cinema Camera is the value-for-money camera. See this review from Andrew Reid at eoshd: http://www.eoshd.com/content/9186/blackmagic-cinema-camera-review
For what you're trying to do on the video side, it seems to me that the BMCC is the best choice. If you have the time to deal with SSDs and RAW workflow, this camera's images are amazing. You can't beat this image quality without buying an Alexa.
I'm sure you've seen One River Media's side-by-side with the 5D Mk III?: http://vimeo.com/49875510
And this follow-up comparison with 8 bit cameras in general?: http://vimeo.com/52269416
But...the BMCC doesn't do stills. So here's what I would do. With a $10K budget and an existing selection of Canon lenses, I would sell the existing camera, get the 5D Mark III for $3300 and the BMCC for $2995.
When you want a camera that can shoot spontaneous stills or video, carry the Canon, when you have slightly more serious video to shoot for pleasure or on spec, and don't want to go to the trouble and expense of hiring a DP and sound crew, break out the BMCC.
This could end up saving you money in the long run. Just a thought.
Hope this is helpful,
Bill
For what you're trying to do on the video side, it seems to me that the BMCC is the best choice. If you have the time to deal with SSDs and RAW workflow, this camera's images are amazing. You can't beat this image quality without buying an Alexa.
I'm sure you've seen One River Media's side-by-side with the 5D Mk III?: http://vimeo.com/49875510
And this follow-up comparison with 8 bit cameras in general?: http://vimeo.com/52269416
But...the BMCC doesn't do stills. So here's what I would do. With a $10K budget and an existing selection of Canon lenses, I would sell the existing camera, get the 5D Mark III for $3300 and the BMCC for $2995.
When you want a camera that can shoot spontaneous stills or video, carry the Canon, when you have slightly more serious video to shoot for pleasure or on spec, and don't want to go to the trouble and expense of hiring a DP and sound crew, break out the BMCC.
This could end up saving you money in the long run. Just a thought.
Hope this is helpful,
Bill
@ Jax Rox, That is the kind of information on the Red that I was looking for. I am leaning toward the 1Dx, but I'm still on the fence.
@brunerww, that is very helpful. I've been peeping at the 5D mkiii since just before it came out. The reason I haven't already bought one is the 1Dx. The stills that thing delivers are quite good. The kicker is that it has 2 Digic 5+ processors. The 5Dmkiii has the same processor, but just one of them. If I was looking strictly for a still camera, I'd be dropping the cash on a Hasselblad H4D. But, since I'm thinking about a side gig that is a boutique video setup, I need video. The output for that job wouldn't exceed 1080p in the easily foreseeable future. Once 2k and 4k home theater monitors become more common, I will want to provide the option to have projects output in those formats. I have digital still cameras (Canon 5Ds) already and can continue to use those. I just want to have my cake, eat it and lose weight.
The 3 grand for the BMCC doesn't include required accessories. Does anybody have a real world total on what it costs to have a field ready BMCC, minus lenses?
Low light capability is also very important in this decision. I am looking to future capability with this purchase.
@brunerww, that is very helpful. I've been peeping at the 5D mkiii since just before it came out. The reason I haven't already bought one is the 1Dx. The stills that thing delivers are quite good. The kicker is that it has 2 Digic 5+ processors. The 5Dmkiii has the same processor, but just one of them. If I was looking strictly for a still camera, I'd be dropping the cash on a Hasselblad H4D. But, since I'm thinking about a side gig that is a boutique video setup, I need video. The output for that job wouldn't exceed 1080p in the easily foreseeable future. Once 2k and 4k home theater monitors become more common, I will want to provide the option to have projects output in those formats. I have digital still cameras (Canon 5Ds) already and can continue to use those. I just want to have my cake, eat it and lose weight.
The 3 grand for the BMCC doesn't include required accessories. Does anybody have a real world total on what it costs to have a field ready BMCC, minus lenses?
Low light capability is also very important in this decision. I am looking to future capability with this purchase.
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IMO (and I may end up eating my hat over this, but I don't think I will be), 2k and 4k home theatre televisions are a long way off. I'm talking quite a few years before they're even on the market at a reasonable price, let alone a majority of households having them.
Now, the US market is certainly ahead compared to here where analog TVs have only just stopped selling.
However, TV broadcasters haven't been broadcasting in HD for very long, and there are still those that are sending out an uprezzed SD signal. SO, considering the fact that I can't see TV networks suddenly upgrading again to even more expensive 4K infrastructure, then 4k is going to be a long while off.
Keep in mind that initial HDTV had been in testing since the early 90s, with displays in development since the 80s, and it's only the last few years that we've seen a major uptake of households actually buying the television sets.
Doesn't everyone?
It depends on what kind of setup you want. The cost of a BMCC full rig will cost similar to a DSLR full rig. All that's really different is you're using more expensive SSDs, rather than CF or SD cards.
Stoopid newbie question here, but does the BMCC also allow you to lose the advantages of RAW and bake in some color settings before you shoot? If so, it might give more flexibility later, and not be so scary up front for people who haven't done a ton of grading before.
Yes, that's exactly right. It gives you a choice of 10 bit Apple ProRes 422 or Avid DNxHD, in addition to 12 bit RAW.
See specs here.
Cheers,
Bill
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Except they're both shooting Log, so it makes no real difference, it still needs grading as per raw.
You could technically shoot in Rec709, but then you're throwing away dynamic range information which would almost render the purchase of such a camera pointless.
You'd be better off monitoring in Rec709, recording in Log and applying a LUT later
4K home theater projectors are available now from a couple of different manufacturers. The price point is still a bit high, but not astronomical. I am still leaning toward the 1Dx.