Newbie Post Production Question

Hm... This is a tough one.

So you're saying you aren't as experienced with post work editing as you are with filming? And you're saying that your actors were your friends, who aren't particularly skilled, which has resulted in your alternate shots not lining up properly with both timing and performances: making it hard to inter-cut shots?

I have to admit that sounds like a bit of a mess. I've run into this issue a few times in small doses, but not for an entire project.

If you wouldn't mind sharing the current cut on a private video link, I think it would become easier to give specific advice.

But I think one concept you may want to lean towards in your next attempt, whenever possible, is to keep the camera on the actor that isn't speaking about half of the time, that way you can chop up the dialogue for the speaking person more easily.

This isn't something to rely on totally, as you sometimes want to show the person speaking to get their facial and physical performance, as well as the non-speaking actor and their reactions. But since your actors seem as if they're not the best at reacting to things convincingly, that may not be your biggest concern right now.

Also, unlike with professional films, which may end up with multiple options for cutting and takes to use, in your case, you may have only one or two ways to cut your project that will actually work. It will likely just take you a while to find that perfect edit that makes everything click. You say you've tried 7 times, I wouldn't be surprised if it takes you another 7.

I would also be remiss if I didn't suggest that you try to get in touch with someone else who might be able to edit the project for you, so that you can see how someone else who didn't shoot your footage or write your script would be able to solve your issues. This is one of the chief reasons why professional films have designated editors, so that they can stay relatively separate from the shooting process and just get the nitty gritty to prepare for when the footage is ready to start being edited. Then they can look at it with fresh eyes and their own personal perspective, and give the director and producer something that they didn't initially expect or plan for.

It always stresses me out and takes the excitement out of filmmaking.

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Gotta hate that hard work

Scenes were mostly filmed twice to get two camera angles on both the two actors.

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Basically what J said above, but I'll also add. To me, it sounds like a failure at the production level to get enough coverage.

I always find that I cringe post production when production screwed up a lot. When it turns the editing process from creative storytelling into problem solving, you'll never get you the best result.

You say you've tried 7 times, I wouldn't be surprised if it takes you another 7.

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If the footage is fubar, you may never achieve a great edit. Given an experienced editor, you may find that all you can accomplish is a somewhat acceptable compromise. Given an inexperienced editor, you may find the best result you can achieve is a polished turd. Take J's advice. Find an editor to help you determine if you can dig your way out of this hole. You may find you need to reshoot to save it.

zachperry said:

I think the entirety of the filmmaking process is exciting ... except for the post production process.

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Potentially that's a big problem because post production is where the film is "made". Making a film is a bit like making a cake, with the obvious difference that when making a film you can't just go to your cupboard or pop down the supermarket for your ingredients, you have to manufacture the ingredients yourself as well. You appear to be saying that you enjoy making (film) ingredients but you don't enjoy actually making films?

zachperry said:

The sketch was created with an external audio source from the camera and multiple camera angles for a scene. Scenes were mostly filmed twice to get two camera angles on both the two actors.

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Why did you choose to use multiple camera angles and why the specific angles you filmed, just for some visual variation or did you have a specific plan? Why am I asking? Well, there are a lot of inexperienced and/or amateur filmmakers who either don't particularly like post production or don't really understand it's purpose. Many hobbyist filmmakers primarily enjoy the filming phase of filmmaking and therefore gear the entire filmmaking process towards the filming phase. For example, pre-production is simply the planning and organising of the logistics to enable the filming to occur and post production is simply the final polish to show-off the captured footage to it's best advantage. Going back to the cake analogy, imagine trying to make a cake out of a bunch of random ingredients. Even an extremely skilled cake maker is going to be hard pushed to make a nice cake unless they've been very lucky in what exactly that bunch of ingredients contains. Professional or serious amateur cake makers don't work this way of course, they decide and carefully plan what cake they're going to make first and then they go and buy the exact ingredients and amounts they need to make that specific cake. In other words, did you plan your shots/angles just because you thought they would look nice or did you choose your shots/angles based on a plan of how you were going to edit them together?

zachperry said:

The problem is since these are both two friends - not experienced actors - the wording/timing isn't exactly right in both clips.

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Even with experienced pro actors, the timing is never exactly right between different takes. This is where additional safety takes, along with picture and dialogue editing skills come into play. You will though have to work with your actors on their wording, if they're not saying the same words, you're drastically reducing your editing options (to one or zero in some cases!).

zachperry said:

I've watched an endless amount of videos and restarted 7 times but still have not achieved something that's smooth and acceptable for an audience.

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Narrative filmmaking is far more complex and far more difficult than it appears! Post production (like the other filmmaking phases) includes a number of roles and specialist sub-roles, each of which require at least a few months just to learn the basics and many years to master. As an amateur filmmaker, it's simply not realistic to think that you will achieve competency in just 7 attempts for even one of these roles, let alone all/most of them. You will at some stage have to find collaborators to take on some or all of these roles. If you don't, the most likely result will be increasing frustration to the point that you give up filmmaking. Until you build up a team, watch more videos, practice more, think more about your planning process and don't expect too much too soon.

G

Hire post production peeps. Stuff will turn out much better.

I agree with ~AudioPostExpert.

Even though you may not naturally take a liking to the post production process, to outright not appreciate the innumerable benefits of it, or to not have the smallest amount of excitement or enjoyment for it can become a very troublesome issue down the road.

Not only will it feel like a burden later on to have to go through the post phase for each of your future projects, but you might also not prepare yourself properly for when the post phase comes as you are filming. Because most times, you have to consider post production pipe-line issues when you design your film, especially if there are any visual effects involved. You have to pick the right camera to use, you have to understand what sort of angles or shots are possible and which ones are not depending on your intentions, and you have to know how you will be able to overlap or re-edit your heavy dialogue scenes. Pre-planning your scenes with storyboards is also important, because most times films are edited by matching eye-lines, and trying to work out eye lines while on set rather than before hand can be very challenging, especially if you're shooting even a single scene out of order.

In my case, I enjoy the production or filming process when I'm there: when I'm getting certain shots and getting the performances that I need. But once that phase is over, I'm so relieved that it's over because now I can go through the process of picking the right footage and building the final product: building up the pacing and the timing, adding the music, doing a final color grade, and simply making the film look pleasing and enjoyable to watch.

Not every director will be like that. Some enjoy all phases equally, and some enjoy one more than others. But if you can't enjoy some aspect of all three, then you're likely not going to enjoy working in this medium.

I do like the cake analogy. But a better analogy might be: you enjoy drawing the gestural sketches, but you don't enjoy finishing the drawing. Or you enjoy writing the music, but you don't enjoy composing the symphony. You enjoy taking the photographs, but you don't enjoy creating the collage or an album of your best work.

This is actually a brilliant moment of self-discovery for you, pay attention to it, please.

Your brain has somehow managed to circumvent an increasingly common trapping where an indie filmmaker convinces themselves that they can not only do everything... but do everything well. So rather than subjecting viewers to yet more amateurishly edited rubbish, you instead choose to know your role and let it go. Bravo.

If certain aspects of filmmaking make you feel like a kid on christmas morning and other aspects make you feel like you've been diagnosed with cancer... for christ's sake do your future audience a favor and remove those toxic things from your plate. You see if there isn't an initial spark or a burning desire then chances are there isn't much raw talent and won't be much developed skill in said areas either.

You've come to a cross-roads. Most indiefilmakers do, but many don't even notice the street signs. Embrace your new self-awareness and start sniffing around for a polar-minded soul who cringes at the thought of apertures, kelvins and kino's (or typing, Aristotle and blocking) but wets their pants over L cuts, Murch pacing and film dissolves.

Some even say filmmaking is a collaborative process, sadly even if one person is doing 99% of the heavy lifting. So don't be ashamed or discouraged for not feeling post, do everyone a solid and let someone own that piece who really wants to.

Oh, consider doing the same thing for craft service as well.