Monetize your Indies

Hi All,
My name is David Stanton. I am getting ready to do a launch for a Crowd Funding Project that is designed to help the Indie Movie Makers monetize their work. The project will be very much like a Netflix but with the Indie in mind. Take a look at the video and tell me what you think. http://moviesthatilove.com/the-video

Just keep in mind that I am not an actor ha! I am a tech guy and entrepreneur. So go easy on my acting skills. In any case I hope the content and idea is clear that I want to help and support film makers make money.

So will your site have access to all the traditional studio releases, as well as the indie content? Do you have some level of QC in place, to make sure subscribers get their bux-worth? How are you going about finding the audience to start with?

I popped a link up on FB for ya. I'm not seeing any social-media sites mentioned on your website at all. How does the word get out?

Good luck with it. It's an ambitious project.

.

Thanks for your feedback. The url is only for a mock up at this point. It is not the real site. My idea is to allow easy access to the movie maker who produces great quality but never gets his work out there. Right now, there are a few sites here and there where you can post your work but the public has to dig for those sites. Sooo.... I will promote easy access to the public. As in any business start up there are always problems to fix and growing pains. Thanks for your feedback. I will let ya know when I launch the Crowd Funding Project.

My main question for you would be the same one I've had for every single site like this that I've seen proposed around here:

How are you going to bring in the audience?

That's the single largest problem facing independent filmmakers.

Everything that you propose in your video is already available in one form or another from dozens (maybe even hundreds) of other platforms. Hosting, distributing & charging for a film isn't a problem anymore. Getting the audience to pay attention is the problem.

Obviously you haven't launched the project yet, so I'm not sure what kind of budget you're talking about when you say you're going to need "quite a bit of money" to do this. However, the fact that you say the bulk of the money goes to programmers, with a small percentage for hardware - and you don't mention anything about marketing or promotion - concerns me.

Honestly the programming side of what you've described there is pretty easy - I'd be surprised if it took me more than a month to build a working platform with the features you've described in your video. The hard part is the audience. That's where the bulk of your money should be going - if it's not it doesn't matter how good the rest of the site is.

For instance, you cite Netflix as an example in your video - do you know what their annual marketing expenditures are? You can find it in their annual reports - here's their first five years of marketing & tech expenses (In millions):


So even in 1998, which was before they actually launched, they spent slightly more on marketing than tech. After that the gap only grows - and continues to grow, by 2008 their marketing budget was nearly $150 million. But even in that first year they spent millions of dollars, and they also ran at a loss (between $11 and $59 million) each of those first five years - so that massive marketing expenditure alone wasn't even enough to make them profitable. They didn't turn a profit until 2003, and even then it was miniscule compared to what they'd lost so far, so it's not exactly a promising business model to emulate unless you have really deep pockets and can run at a loss for years.

You also have to take into account that this is just marketing for their platform itself, not for any of the films on it. They benefitted greatly from the marketing of the new releases they carried, which probably accounted for hundreds of millions in additional marketing expenditures. It's not likely your platform would have a similar situation because it's specifically targeted at films no one knows about. And on top of all that - you're competing with netflix for subscriber dollars. How do you plan to compete against their hundreds of millions in annual marketing expenditures?

None of this is to say I don't want your platform to succeed - I'd love to see someone figure out how to make this kind of thing really work for indies. It's just that we see someone proposing or promoting a different site like this around here roughly once a month or so, and they all have the exact same problem - no real plan to pull in any significant audience.

^^ another software guy on the board. nice

It all depends on what he's charging for the hosting of a film. If you're being charged 25-50% you're going to want them to do a significant part of the marketing. If he's charging in the 5% range (or simply a hosting fee of a few dollars) then it's quite reasonable to expect the filmmaker to do their own marketing.

Most of the sites that advertise on here expect to charge in the 30% range and offer little to no marketing efforts or traffic at all. This is poor form in my opinion. I know of someone who said he was launching a platform where the charge was 5% and half of that was going to go back into helping independents fund their films. That's an idea I can get behind.

Different platforms for different people I suppose. While companies like Netflix, iTunes and even youtube don't market your film specifically (you're mostly expected to do it yourself with them) they do have significant traffic and a built in audience that you can leverage your marketing efforts.

I'd like to hear more the business side of this platform before I jump to conclusions.

Netflix may not "market" actively, but I have discovered more than a few films due to their suggested ratings. I'm probably in the minority that seeks out films instead of having them pushed onto me. Without cable tv I haven't seen a trailer in like 2 years

Get the facts

Wow! You sit and write a ton of information like you are "the" authority when in fact you have no clue about what you are talking about. You do not know me nor my background nor my resources and yet you will sit and write out a long message to shoot me down? Also I am not charging the movie maker, I am paying the movie makers. If you guys would take the time to read and get the facts then perhaps you would not look so silly.
Btw this was posted in the welcome area. In other forums I would get lots of "good to meet you" posts. Not someone trying to show off and shoot me down.
I do not intend to waste my time reading any replies that you might offer, let alone reply.

You need a thicker skin, David. Asking questions is not trying to
shoot you down.

Here on indietalk we get several post like this each year. The idea
is terrific and every one of us wants a way to get our films seen,
but the questions are always the same; how will paying viewers
be able to find the site and the specific movies. You're correct, no
one knows you or your background - so people ask questions.

So far four people have responded - three of them want to see
you succeed and the forth made no, specific comment about you
at all. I cannot see how that is putting you down.

Welcome, David.

You have found that this community isn't like others - we are truly
passionate about not only making movies but getting them out
there to an audience. Our questions will be challenging because we
want a good platform. Not because we want to put you down.

davidstanton said:

I do not intend to waste my time reading any replies that you might offer, let alone reply.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure who this is director to. Sweetie specifically said he
wants to hear more, ItDonned was honest, challenging and wants
to see something like this work. Who will you be ignoring in the
future?

I respectfully suggest you follow you own advice; take the time
to read the entire post and understand what is being asked. You
want support from a lot of filmmakers? This is the place. But you
WILL be challenged. How you respond to the challenges is important.

If you want some feedback, I went to your website, took a quick look and from what I saw there was very little information about your business. Anyway, my tip is to change the opening image of that video. It looked just like a video library, trying to sell me a video etc. If I were you, I'd change the opening image to "About us" or something clearer. With only 26 views of your video (from multiple forums from what you say) and 167 views of this thread alone, I suspect that others also didn't realize it was an intro video to your business.

Now that bring said, even after watching your video, it's really not clear what's in it for the filmmaker. Yes, I know you're asking for money as it's a crowd funding campaign, but the particulars that's missing in that part doesn't lead me to have a lot of confidence. To be honest with you, asking everyone to send you $1 so you can keep in contact with them about distributing their film sounds very scammy, even chain letter like. If it isn't your intent, I suggest that you change it so a free subscription to a mailing list instead.

I'm sure you're a nice guy, from the video, you seem like it. I wish you the best of luck and hope you become successful, in its current form, without clear information regarding the financials for the filmmakers, I won't be sending you a red cent, any referrals or any of my or my friends films.

Obviously, if you do be more clear in how you'll operate, and the situation is favorable to conducting business with you, I'll reconsider.

Once again, I wish you good luck.

davidstanton said:

Wow! You sit and write a ton of information like you are "the" authority when in fact you have no clue about what you are talking about. You do not know me nor my background nor my resources and yet you will sit and write out a long message to shoot me down?

Click to expand...

You're right - I don't know your background or resources. I do know that you came here asking for advice on your video and plan, which are the foundation for a crowdfunding campaign, and so I gave you my advice: you need to think about marketing. I wasn't trying to shoot you down at all, quite the opposite in fact - I was trying to strengthen your project.

I don't claim to be an authority. What I do have is a very particular set of skills, skills I've acquired over a somewhat unique career. I do, in fact, "have a clue" what I'm talking about.

None of that really matters though - nothing I said requires anything more than simple contemplation of the realities of starting almost any business. The fact that your response is to act shocked and angry that someone would ask you about your marketing plan, and consider that "shooting you down", says quite a lot about your likelihood of succeeding in this venture.

If you guys would take the time to read and get the facts then perhaps you would not look so silly.

Click to expand...

I read everything you said and spent 10 minutes watching your video, then probably spent twice that doing what amounts to competitive market research for you. If I look 'silly' it's because I wasted so much of my time on someone that I thought was attempting a serious undertaking only to discover that they weren't really interested in feedback at all.

Btw this was posted in the welcome area. In other forums I would get lots of "good to meet you" posts. Not someone trying to show off and shoot me down.

Click to expand...

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but when I come to the forum I hit the 'new posts' link and really have no idea which sub-forum the posts come from.

Welcome. Good to meet you. You need to start thinking about marketing.

I do not intend to waste my time reading any replies that you might offer, let alone reply.

Click to expand...

So you came here asking for advice, got some, and decided you were wasting your time because you didn't like it? If this is something you are funding and undertaking entirely yourself then feel free to ignore the advice of others. But if you're really expecting to crowdfund this project you need to accept that people are going to want answers to some pretty basic questions before they're going to throw down to support it. If you're actually expecting to succeed with it you'll need to know those answers even if nobody's asking the questions.

And if you really don't read this response, let alone reply, I'll post it anyway in the hope that the next person who comes along with a similar plan (again, happens once a month or so around here) will read it and actually come up with a plan to pull in a significant audience for their platform - because I really want to see someone crack this problem, but so far no one seems up to the task.

I was going to say Welcome but the OP had a pretty damn aggressive reply to ItDonnedOnMe.

I know this is the Welcome section but the OP wrote of his business venture in his first post. ItDonnedOnMe had valid questions and asked.

The OP did not have to reply. Yet alone reply in a disrespectful way to ItDonnedOnMe and basically insult our whole community:

If you guys would take the time to read and get the facts then perhaps you would not look so silly.

Click to expand...

...not a good start for a new member

GEEZ

I was excited to join this group. A welcome message said something about introducing myself. So I did. I talked about what I was doing. There was no reason to shoot me down. Yes I was upset. Why are people so eager to offer all the reasons why something is too hard or will not work. Instead of offering help and support? That is what I am attempting to do by helping the indie with my resources. By man oh man, I was not welcomed here. IF you have questions and have a sincere interest then I will gladly answer your queries.

davidstanton said:

Why are people so eager to offer all the reasons why something is too hard or will not work. Instead of offering help and support? That is what I am attempting to do by helping the indie with my resources. By man oh man, I was not welcomed here. IF you have questions and have a sincere interest then I will gladly answer your queries.

Click to expand...

I have offered both a suggestion and asked questions, which both have had no responses.

If you took a lot of what's being said from multiple sides, with multiple perspectives as an opportunity to get some feedback from people who get approached multiple times per year by people offering to help distribute their film with yet another online distribution system. If you took the time to read through, you may find that there is a need to differentiate your service from other services and explain why that difference is the best option (at least for a sub-set of filmmakers).

You have an interesting concept. I'm not sure if your idea isn't developed enough yet, you're keeping the details to yourself or whether you don't have the resources to launch a competing service to Netflix. (If you're crowd funding, then you're not likely to have the resources) I mean, there are a few services that seem eager to compete with Netflix. Will you be the one that not only succeeds, but dominates?

Did you want help and support? If so, my suggestion would be to ask for some help, perhaps along the lines of "Hi guys, I'm developing a distribution system for Indie filmmakers, what do you consider important in an online distribution system? What features would you like to see? What would make my service a "must have" for indie filmmakers? What would the deal breakers be?" and so on.

Unfortunately most of the answers that you'll get aren't economically viable or realistic from your perspective as most of them aren't realistic in the real business world: Lots of funding for making our films while allowing us to maintain creative control and not require any external quality control, a large and steady stream of ready made customers wanting to throw cash at our films when we're finished, and someone else who can pay for marketing of the film without expecting too much in return. Oh, and a guarantee of financial success... Is all that asking too much? (What else did I miss indie filmmakers??)

If you came here hoping to raise enough money to create a digital distribution system, you've come to the wrong place. Go to where the money is. There are too few people here that have disposable funds (in fact, most filmmakers are looking for funds) to assist you in that quest. If that is the case, what I suggest is you put together a business plan, an investment package and start pitching to high net worth investors.

If you wish to open a dialogue to indie filmmakers, then fine. I'm sure everyone here will be willing to wipe the slate and start fresh and give you the time to discuss your ideas and help strengthen your business idea towards something that we see as a positive benefit to the indie filmmaking scene.

Once again, I wish you good luck.

davidstanton said:

I was excited to join this group. A welcome message said something about introducing myself. So I did. I talked about what I was doing. There was no reason to shoot me down. Yes I was upset. Why are people so eager to offer all the reasons why something is too hard or will not work. Instead of offering help and support? That is what I am attempting to do by helping the indie with my resources. By man oh man, I was not welcomed here. IF you have questions and have a sincere interest then I will gladly answer your queries.

Click to expand...

The whole point of IndieTalk is to share your ideas/work and get feedback and/or support.

We are trying to make sure that your indie distribution site turns out the best it can. It's sad to watch ambitious people with great ideas to fail. Pointing out flaws, showing statistics, and asking questions isn't shooting you down, it's giving you a better idea of what you're doing and what you need to work on. Rejecting advice from people that have knowledge in the area you are working is like ignoring a caution sign. You want to steer away from disaster, don't you?

I hope you give this community another chance or at least be open to people trying to help you.

Peace

davidstanton said:

IF you have questions and have a sincere interest then I will gladly answer your queries.

Click to expand...

Okay, let’s start with these questions:

Zensteve asked: How are you going about finding the audience to start with?
ItDonnedOnMe asked: How are you going to bring in the audience?
Sweetie said: I'd like to hear more the business side of this platform before I jump to conclusions.

Then you ask this:

davidstanton said:

Why are people so eager to offer all the reasons why something is too hard or will not work. Instead of offering help and support?

Click to expand...

How about these words of support?
Zensteve said: Good luck with it. It's an ambitious project.
ItDonnedOnMe said: I'd love to see someone figure out how to make this kind of thing really work for indies.
Sweetie said: I'm sure you're a nice guy, from the video, you seem like it. I wish you the best of luck and hope you become successful,

I'm still not seeing where people are putting you down. I see support,
interest, good wishes and some honest opinions. Isn't that what you want?

Hey David, check your PMs.