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Is it possible to make distance from mic sound the same in this case?

H

harmonica44

For my the short film I am working now, it has a narration to it. I recorded the woman narrating over two days. However, the second day, the recordings, sound closer to the mic, than the first day. Perhaps she was leaned in closer to the mic more and I didn't notice.

But when it comes to putting all of the narration together, is there a way to make it so that all of her lines sound as if they were the same distance?

She was possibly about 1 foot further away, the previous day, if that is the case, so is there a way to make it sound like she is one foot away, the second day?
 
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harmonica44 said:
so is there a way to make it sound like she is one foot away, the second day?
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Yes. But, exactly what you have to do depends on a number of variables. Tools you will need: 1. A multi-band parametric EQ. 2. A good quality reverb plugin, with highly configurable parameters and most importantly, 3. A set of experienced, knowledgeable ears, so you can very carefully listen to the second day's narration and apply the right EQ and reverb parameters to the first day's narration to make it sound the same as the second day's.

Without a decently equipped audio post professional, it's likely to be quicker, easier, cheaper and better to just record all the narration again. When you need audio to sound identical, do it all in one session! If it's too long for one uninterrupted session, at least do it all the same day and listen very carefully after any breaks to make sure it sounds the same as before the break. Lesson learned (hopefully)!!

G
 
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Okay thanks. I don't think she will be available to re-record it though. I have Adobe Audition. Which reverb plug in, am I suppose to use though? I have gone through quite a few, but if someone could tell me the correct plug in to use, I will know which one to practice and experiment with then.
 
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harmonica44 said:
Which reverb plug in, am I suppose to use though? I have gone through quite a few, but if someone could tell me the correct plug in to use, I will know which one to practice and experiment with then.
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The correct reverb plugin to use is the one which gives the sound most identical to the one you're trying to emulate! I have 3 reverbs plugs I most commonly use and a couple I use more rarely. It's far more about training your ears than it is about which reverb plugin to use! The only useful advice I can give about which one to use is that for reverb matching I tend to prefer an algorithmic reverb rather than a convolution, as algorithmic reverbs have far more configurable parameters.

WalterB said:
Make her available, otherwise you'll be practising for another 5 years on a reverb plugin.
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It should only take a few months or so of diligent practice to get pretty good with a reverb plugin, although as we're talking about H44 here maybe your time frame is more realistic! :)

G
 
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I think I learn it within that time. However, different reverb plug ins have different functions. Like for example, some make it sound like a person is in a different type of room.

The reverb I want is, for it to sound like it is in the same room, just a few inches of a further distance away. Which reverb plug in, changes distance only, and not the type of room the voice is in?
 
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harmonica44 said:
The reverb I want is, for it to sound like it is in the same room, just a few inches of a further distance away. Which reverb plug in, changes distance only, and not the type of room the voice is in?
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What do you think "distance" is, how do you think we hear/perceive distance?

Increasing the amount of distance between the subject and the mic means the mic picks up less of the subject relative to the background noise. That background noise includes the reflections/reverb of the subject, it's the interaction of those reflections/reverb with the direct sound (of the subject) which gives us the sense of distance. In other words, you cannot only change "distance", you have to change the reverb as well! The skill is in manipulating the parameters of the reverb plugin so that the reverb ("type of room") it's creating sounds the same as the reverb you recorded when the subject was further from the mic, thereby giving the impression that there is no change in the type of room, only a change in the distance.

Furthermore, that interaction of the reflections with the direct sound when you recorded doesn't just give you the same direct sound + reverb, it changes (modulates) the frequency content of the direct sound itself, which is why you'll probably need to apply EQ as well. Depending on exactly what you recorded when the subject was further from the mic, the acoustics of your recording room and how much of it you captured, you may find that much of the "matching" is achieved with just EQ and only a small amount of added reflections is necessary, which can sometimes best be achieved with just a simple delay plugin rather than a reverb plugin.

TV/Film audio post pros (ADR, dialogue or re-recording mixers) are used to having to do this sort of matching exercise all the time and would likely get a fairly decent match within just a few minutes. BTW, this is one of the required, different skill-sets between music producers/composers and Film/TV audio post pros. You might be lucky and just stumble upon an appropriate combination of EQ and reverb/delay settings but the odds are against you, even more so if you only have a reverb plugin with limited configurability. Here for example is one of the reverb plugins which I most commonly use for matching purposes:
digidesign-revibe.jpg


Get the narrator back in and record her again or, if she's not available, get a new narrator. That would almost certainly be both your quickest and best option!!

G
 
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Okay thanks. For future projects, should I make sure that the subject is the same distance away from the mic everytime, or will EQ's be necessary?

What I mean is, is, should I try get the recordings all perfect, so I do not need a post production audio engineer? Cause it seems to me that this would be more difficult trying to get all the recordings from everyday to match distance perfectly, rather than do some post production work.

I mean it seems to me that making a movie without audio engineering is not a realistic goal, unless it is, and it's easier to do that, than to do post engineering?

I tried getting her back but it didn't go well. I told her she had to stay in one spot and could not move her head, even if it's just a few inches. But she had trouble memorizing all of the dialogue and she has a habit of leaning slightly forward to read some of it.

I do not know if she is going to move forward or not so I am constantly having to move the mic, but this does no good, if she moves without me anticipating to move the mic in time. You can still hear her get closer just before I move it. She has become so self conscious of her movements now, and trying to keep still that it's effecting the emotion in performance. Is their anything I can do to get her to give a better performance, while trying to be absolutely still, so she change distance, sound wise?
 
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harmonica44 said:
I mean it seems to me that making a movie without audio engineering is not a realistic goal, unless it is, and it's easier to do that, than to do post engineering?
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You're joking right? I would expect a newbie filmmaker to have worked out the answer to this question after their first short, at the latest! How long have you been doing this?

harmonica44 said:
1. I told her she had to stay in one spot and could not move her head, even if it's just a few inches. But she had trouble memorizing all of the dialogue and she has a habit of leaning slightly forward to read some of it.

2. She has become so self conscious of her movements now, and trying to keep still that it's effecting the emotion in performance.
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1. She's narrating right? Why does she need to memorise the narration and not just read all of it? Why don't you position the script so she doesn't have to move to read it? Duh!

2. Then that's exceptionally poor management on your part!! Your job is to relax the talent and/or do whatever you can to facilitate a good performance. By making her "so self conscious of her movements", you've accomplished the exact opposite!

harmonica44 said:
Is their anything I can do to get her to give a better performance, while trying to be absolutely still, so she change distance, sound wise?
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It's unreasonable to expect someone to be "absolutely still". You need to choose the mic, mic position and recording environment so that the talent moving an inch or so doesn't make so much difference to the sound. If the talent is unable to narrate without making significantly more movement than this, then she's not cut out for narration and you need to find someone better at it!

G
 
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Okay thanks. I didn't mean to come off as joking, I just feel that I don't think I can get away with all the dialogue going in as it was recorded, without doing any post on it.

Yes I can have the paper close enough for her to read it. But she keeps adjusting herself, moving a few inches back and forth, every so often. This changes the sound. If keeping her absolutely still is not the way to go, then what should I do keep sound consistent?

Another thing is, that this is also her project as well, cause she wrote it and is hosting it. So I cannot replace her without her having a say. There are other scenes where she is not just narrating but is on camera speaking as well, and if I replace her, the new person would also have to do ADR all over all of her footage where she is speaking on camera.

You say I need to choose the proper mic and room to get consistent sound when an actor moves a few inches.

I used the Audio Technica 4053b mic, which was recommended to me on here before. Was this a poor mic choice because of changes in sound when subjects move a few inches? And yes, I know it's unreasonable to ask someone to be completely still. This is why the first recordings went so much better. So perhaps in the future I should choose a different mic, mic position and environment. I had the mic half a foot to a foot away, which varied when she moved. The first day, it was more like a foot away, the next day, it may been 8 inches when she sat closer.

So perhaps next time, I can measure exactly how far away she is sitting, if that helps. Also you said to make sure the actor is far away enough so that her moving a little, will not effect the sound. How far away would that be if know? I was told before to keep that particular mic no more than a foot away, if I can help it, so is a foot too close?
 
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harmonica44 said:
I think I learn it within that time. However, different reverb plug ins have different functions. Like for example, some make it sound like a person is in a different type of room.

The reverb I want is, for it to sound like it is in the same room, just a few inches of a further distance away. Which reverb plug in, changes distance only, and not the type of room the voice is in?
Click to expand...

The last sentence just made the first unbelievable.

Sorry.

Stop finding new excuses to try and master some new skill for 1 problem that could be solved in a few hours instead of years of contrived attempts to master a plugin. Go make stuff.
It won't be perfect.
That's fine!
As long as you do it better next time.

All you do is creating problems and then find the most impossible solution so you can keep on conplaining nobody wants to work with you. If you would just finish something, eventhough not perfect, you would have a portfolio by now, a network and an easier time to get cast and crew.
You are just disguising your procrastination with perfectionism.
 
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harmonica44 said:
1. But she keeps adjusting herself, moving a few inches back and forth, every so often.

2. Another thing is, that this is also her project as well, cause she wrote it and is hosting it. So I cannot replace her without her having a say. There are other scenes where she is not just narrating but is on camera speaking as well, and if I replace her, the new person would also have to do ADR all over all of her footage where she is speaking on camera.
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1. Personally, I prefer a cardioid for narration/VO, with the mic only about 6" from the talent. A bit of movement is OK, several inches is not.

2. Play her the narration you've recorded, point out the problem and give her the options: 1. Record it again, with less movement. 2. Get someone else to record it. 3. Live with it sounding as it does. 4. Put more money in to hire an audio post pro for an hour or so to try and fix what you've already recorded.

G
 
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Here is an idea... invest in a cheap pop filter. Have her talk really close to the pop filter - and keep that filter a foot away from the mic.

This way she knows she should always be right next to the pop filter when she talks and that will keep her distance consistent.

I'm just riffing, i made it up right now but it's a thought.
 
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Hi harmonica44,

I`d say that inconsistent narrative recordings has several approaches to handle (and yes, there always will be a situation when no re-recording is possible, and deadline is looking right at you etc.)

If you want, you could send me snippets from both recordings, and I could advice more in depth.

Cheers.
 
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Okay thanks. I can do that. I will send you a couple of snippets later on, when I am finished choosing which dialogue takes to use, if that is okay for you. Thank you for doing that.

And yes I am possibly too much of a perfectionist.

Well in Adobe Audition, I tried the 'parametric equalizer', and raised the gain to 6 decibels, in the takes where the voice is a few inches further away. This seems to have fixed the problem or at least the voice sounds the same to me now, and I cannot tell a difference hardly.

Was this the right thing to do, to fix that specific problem? I could still send snippets to make sure though, if that's okay.

What do you think?
 
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Hi again!

Its sounds louder by quite a margin, and that needs to be addressed as a first measure. Then a slight EQ to round things off, but not 6 db of course, its too rough. I`ll PM you my email so you could send me a few snippets.
 
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