Sound is 50% of the movie?!
- Thread starter Cracker Funk
- Start date
I can't think of a single "sound guy" who is now a producer. In the
ultra low budget world I personally know two people who primarily
do audio who have produced. But they are more along the line of
what YOU are looking for - they co-produced or produced a movie
and did the audio (production and post) to save money. One of
then wrote the script.
I understand exactly what you're going for, CF. Making an ultra low
budget movie for passion; paying those you need to, partnering up
with some and asking favors of others. On my ULB shows I typically
pay only three people; audio, first and scripty. I'll offer a stipend to
the grip/electric team and makeup and art department. If you can find
an audio pro who is looking for a producer credit you can save money
by partnering up. In my experience most audio folk are not interested
in producing. I hope you find the exception.
Thanks!
I think you might be twisting my words. I never said anything about how I'm going to make money and not pay anybody. In fact, quite the opposite, I acknowledged that I will probably lose money, but if I do make money, so does everybody else who invested their time, proportional to the amount of both real money they invested combined with the "virtual dollars" they invested.
Also, I never said anything about a "business plan". You did. I mildly agreed to your use of those words, but only because I had no idea I was being set up to be laughed at.
And dude, I've done this before. I know what it's like to wear a million hats on a tiny-budget feature. Do you think it's any easier for a director/DP/cameraman to also be producer than it would be for a sound guy to also be a producer? It's far from ideal. But it can be done, countless people have done it.
I don't need anybody to put their lives on hold, indefinitely. I'm not putting my life on hold. I still have a job. I still go to movies and occasionally visit my family. I still play Xbox. For this project, preproduction is a part-time/weekends thing, as is post. The only thing anyone will have to their lives on hold for is production, which I plan to take no more than a month on. Is that an easy thing to do? Heck no. But people have done it before. Like this guy! And it was the time of my life.
Yes, the promise of fun is a guarantee I can back up.
Why recruit on here? Why not? I'm certainly not limiting myself to recruiting on here.
Rik, thanks a bunch for the support! I literally would not be where I am without your guidance over the years. This filmmaking thing sure is a great time, ain't it?
Wait, I take part of that back. Nobody will have to put their lives on hold during production. We'll be too busy enjoying it to the fullest!
You're right. The business plan also includes the people involved. Since you're building that, it didn't make sense to have that included just yet. The financial plan (what you called it) would include all those details, including the marketing. I guess we're both mincing words at this point in time.
I understand how you're doing it. I personally like your decision to run it this way. It's what I believe is a superior method to deferred payment.
Perhaps you're confusing what can be done and what should be done. Perhaps you're simply wording it incorrectly. Like when you call a director like Michael Bay a producer. There's a difference between a person who does the job and another who negotiates the credit when another does the work. Kathleen Kennedy is an example of a producer. Maybe you're talking executive or associate producers? Who knows? Not sure how, even those are different just as the roles differ between a director and assistant director.
Perhaps you've worded it poorly. Maybe you're looking for your sound guy and just want to offer them "Producer" credit instead of expecting them to pull double duty. If so, everything I've said on the topic is moot.
If you're not paying the people, why not look for separate people to fulfill the appropriate tasks? That way you have people focusing on performing their job to a professional standard instead of splitting their focus, trying their best not to drop balls while juggling roles?
You may also get an additional benefit of widening your potential talent pool. It may be easier to find an audio guy than it will be to find an audio guy who also wants to take on the tasks of a producer.
I hope you get it to work. I'm sure you had a plan.
I was involved with a feature who changed from a scheduled 10 day shoot to a production that worked around the schedules of its people. They're now 1 year into a 10 day shoot with no end in sight.
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Yeah, I guess I'm wording it poorly, at least a little bit. Also, I think that earlier we just weren't communicating on the same page, but I think we're past that. Thanks for the advice and the well-wishes!
The reason I would hope to find a sound guy who'll take the credit as producer is twofold. First, I do understand that producer directors like Michael Bay limit their role to that of director during production. You have no idea how much I want to be able to do that. Being a working producer while simultaneously directing a tiny-budget feature is such a pain, and definitely a hindrance to the quality of the final product.
Which is why one of my most important strategies is to take care of as much production detail in advance as possible. I basically plan to over-prepare. While on set, I want to be focused on direction as much as possible, likewise I'd want my sound guy to be focused on sound as much as possible.
The main reason I'd give them that credit is because having a pro sound guy would be such a huge savings to the overall budget, and their "virtual dollars" investment would be so huge that it'd be ridiculous to not credit them as at least an executive producer. And since they'd be such a huge creative voice throughout the entire process, I think they'd also deserve credit as working producer, cuz preproduction would be pretty much just me and them, and post would be pretty much just me, them, and a composer.
I appreciate your warning about a proposed 10-day shoot turning into two years of weekend-warrioring. I realize that the weekend-warrior model works for a lot of people, but it's absolutely not for me. It's a month of continuous shooting or bust. Barring tragedy or catastrophe, I'm confident that we can wrap principal photography in a month.
The thing that will take forever is preproduction. And maybe post. The reason pre will take a long time is because of the aforementioned over-preparation. I'm going to do plenty of test-footage, even for something as relatively simple as lighting. For the more complicated shots (there are a couple action scenes), we're gonna need plenty of rehearsal prior to production. The planning is gonna take time, and that's all on me. As soon as we enter production, we should be rockin' and rollin'!
Post might also take a very long time, but strictly for financial reasons. The production budget is going to be difficult enough for me to raise that I won't be raising any advertising dollars, festival submission fees or postproduction costs in advance. All of that money will be raised in post. I'm hoping to get some investment money by showing a rough cut with a temp score and temp coloring. If that doesn't happen, there's always the crowdfunding possibility, and worst-case scenario, I might just have to self-finance.
Again, there's no deadline for this movie. Production is going to take one month, of that I am confident. Pre and post should take at least a few years, maybe longer? I hope to reach that finish-line as soon as possible, but quality is priority #1. I've set a tentative deadline for production at 18 months from now, but I'll reassess that tentative deadline another six months from now.
Cheers!
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It sounds like it.
I personally think it's a solid plan.
I have a story that you may or may not find relevance here. I went to a conference where one of these first time Cannes winning directors was talking. It turns out that he also brought along his producer. One of the more higher profile local producers.
Anyway, afterwards, I pitched a similar idea (the plan was to deliver a finished film) to this producer figuring that she may be interested in a reduced workload and only needed to view the finished product to whether she was interested in getting involved at that point and collect her fee. She automatically passed. Didn't get to the genre, who was involved etc. I even had the benefit of her knowing who I was. She wouldn't watch the film. She wasn't interested in getting involved after the fact. You may find distributors and investors are different.
I did some producing training a little while back and something stuck with me. "The potential value of a production is greatest before you've shot it". Before it's shot is where it has the greatest potential. Most productions never live up to a films potential so once you've shot it, you you go from potential to actual.
As for everything else, it seems like you have a solid initial plan in place. Like most plans, it'll probably change over time and that's also fine. It's different to how I'd do it but we have differing styles and skill sets, so that's also fine. It's more important to play to your strengths than to worry about how someone else would accomplish the same task.
Thanks, Sweetie! I appreciate the very-well thought-out advice. 
I found my first local recruit, by the way. She's a DP, and I haven't actually pitched her yet, but I'm feeling optimistic for a couple reasons.
I found my first local recruit, by the way. She's a DP, and I haven't actually pitched her yet, but I'm feeling optimistic for a couple reasons.
Exactly, the SonImage 1972 manifesto. After 70's Watergate tapes, paranoia movie wave plus global mass audio tape machines incl. portable pro versions, sound was big but was forgotten as a 50% trend. It is indeed still half the film. Most visually able film makers know this best. Altman started it early on with numerous hidden mikes on Mash sets, his movie not the later TV series.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAVdl2N-zbc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hLXOVCZr-8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6_zqgX4X_k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrhRsZ56b4g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPRzm8ibDQ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rM4fM-R3HC8
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It's definitely half the film. Sorry, the title of this thread is rather misleading. This thread was always designed to get the attention of audio people, so that I could recruit them to work on my movie. I'll totally check out those links, though. Thanks!
Thanks!