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Hiring someone to distribute a film

I

Inarius

I'm not talking about a completed film, nor we have any demo. But we do consider to hire someone to distribute the film after it is ready. The problem is - we don't pay as much as a known production company can pay. We are not established enough to make deals with media publishing companies. Actually, we don't make a feature-length movie to come up with to someone. We make a 20 minute film to show the concept and maybe get a client to buy it, or invest to have us making a feature-length movie or TV series.

So the distributor has to do the most dirty job - come to producers, investors, filmmakers and find a client/investor. This is a dirty job when one doesn't have any prior experience and portfolio. So, the question is - will the hired person have the motivation to do his job at 100%? Because this is not being a part of the casting crew, nor participate in the production/post-production process. He doesn't get any filmmaking credits, only some cash, which he can earn working a few days in a manufacture.

Or maybe should we make him do something for the film, so that he will have the motivation to distribute it. But then, he will probably want to do his filmmaking job, not the distribution. What do you suggest? Nobody in our crew wants to go to producers and do the "begging" job.
 
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Inarius said:
If you ask why, I think it's because most of Israeli movies are made for specific audiences.
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If I ask why? I DID ask why.

Inarius said:
P.S. The "Why isn't everybody doing that?" was a question of Sweetie that I probably needed to quote.
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I am aware of the conversation. I am reading along just as you are.

Code: 
                   SWEETIE
         Why isn't everybody doing that?

                   INARIUS
         Because very few people believe in Israeli 
         cinematography.

                    DIRECTORIK
          Why is this, do you think?

I was just joining in the conversation. I don't know anything about Israeli
cinematography of the film business there so I asked a question.
 
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directorik said:
If I ask why? I DID ask why.
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"If you ask" is a Hebrew (and Russian) slang to return to a previously asked question. :)

So, very few Israeli movies make much money. "This is Soddom" made a huge gross. A comedy.

I have a friend who lived in US for a while, and this is what he told me about the cinematography differences between Israel and US:
"Going to movies is part of their (Americans) hang out. They go to cinema every day, and even more in weekend. You almost never find a cinema hall half empty, while most Israelians prefer to download and watch movies at home, or at work"

And I must say, I haven't been in cinema more frequently than once a year. Almost all those times I saw half of the seats are empty. Even if in Tel Aviv they may be a little more crowded, this is the reality.

So, this is one of the reasons why Israeli movies don't make much money, unless they are successful abroad. And it leads to filmmakers not believe in Israeli cinematography. And, of course, the first reason I've mentioned above, that Israeli movies are often made for a very selective audience.
 
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You know that money people are different than creative people; costume
designers, 3D modelers and animators and even studio space owners and
actors are willing to offer their services for free to the right project because
they will get their name out there. The people who find money, those who
do the (in your words) dirty work, have a very different standard.

You know that you're going to have to find an international audience for
the finished movie. And you know that it is very likely that the people who
put in the money will lose everything. And that's why it's so difficult to find
money. The people who look for money know this; a LOT of work and they
may never find investors willing to lose everything. So their motivation is
very different than the creative people.

We have discussed the challenges and difficulties in finding someone who
will look for investors. What are you doing to overcome those challenges?
You say no one is willing to do this job. How many people have you contacted?
 
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directorik said:
We have discussed the challenges and difficulties in finding someone who
will look for investors. What are you doing to overcome those challenges?
You say no one is willing to do this job. How many people have you contacted?
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Saying that nobody wants to do the "dirty job", I've actually meant people inside the casting crew.
I DID ask some friends, however, but they prefer to continue with their jobs. They are mainly like those "money people" you've mentioned.

So I'll keep searching, or maybe leave this issue to my "boss", the director. I still have some time to think about that.
 
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So, this is one of the reasons why Israeli movies don't make much money, unless they are successful abroad. And it leads to filmmakers not believe in Israeli cinematography. And, of course, the first reason I've mentioned above, that Israeli movies are often made for a very selective audience.
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Now that you've brought it up, what is the solution to this issue? Is it a budgeting issue?

I understand that you just want to make movies. The hard fact is that until you've "made" it, you're going to have a hard time finding funding for a film. Hell, even those who have made it still often have a hard time finding funding for their film. I guess you're not really that interested in doing whatever it takes to get it done. That's fine too. The truth of it, unless you're super lucky, what you're looking for isn't going to happen with this mindset.

Just so you're aware, there are heaps of producers who are out there looking for films to package and source finance. Lots of them. There's not a lack of money in the industry. I occasionally hear a gripe from producers. There's not enough good packages out there. If you're serious about it, take a look at Film Specific. It's a subscription based service that can help you gain a perspective on that side of the business.

I wish you luck and hope you prove me wrong.
 
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Sweetie said:
Now that you've brought it up, what is the solution to this issue? Is it a budgeting issue?

I understand that you just want to make movies. The hard fact is that until you've "made" it, you're going to have a hard time finding funding for a film. Hell, even those who have made it still often have a hard time finding funding for their film. I guess you're not really that interested in doing whatever it takes to get it done. That's fine too. The truth of it, unless you're super lucky, what you're looking for isn't going to happen with this mindset.

Just so you're aware, there are heaps of producers who are out there looking for films to package and source finance. Lots of them. There's not a lack of money in the industry. I occasionally hear a gripe from producers. There's not enough good packages out there. If you're serious about it, take a look at Film Specific. It's a subscription based service that can help you gain a perspective on that side of the business.

I wish you luck and hope you prove me wrong.
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Thank you. You're right. The funding is the issue.
I'm actually the co-director, not the author and not the "big boss". So luckily I won't have to do this "dirty job" myself. On the other hand, I AM interested in the movie success, so probably I'll need to help with that.
 
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I didn't say funding was the issue. Funding rarely is the issue.

I asked if it was a budgeting issue (which really means it's a value issue. Meaning, it's not worth the value you're asking. That usually means that people want to spend too much for what it is).

It also sounds like if everyone passes the buck, the project will never see the light of day.
 
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Inarius said:
Saying that nobody wants to do the "dirty job", I've actually meant people inside the casting crew.
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I understood that, Inarius. That's why you posted this question, is it not?

Nobody in your crew wants to go to producers and do the "begging" job so
you asked about hiring or finding someone to do it. So my question is about
who - apart from the people inside the casting crew - have you contacted to
do the job.
 
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directorik said:
I understood that, Inarius. That's why you posted this question, is it not?

Nobody in your crew wants to go to producers and do the "begging" job so
you asked about hiring or finding someone to do it. So my question is about
who - apart from the people inside the casting crew - have you contacted to
do the job.
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Yes, I asked some of my friends, but they find 999+ reasons why they can't. And that's understandable. Who would want to do some dirty job for a film that they are not part of, especially when they have nothing to do with filmmaking? Some of them asked me to make them join the project, but the director doesn't want people without certain skills and proved experience. Which is understandable as well. We need people who at least know what they do, not somebody's neighborhood.
 
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the director doesn't want people without certain skills and proved experience. Which is understandable as well.
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The director (which you are one of mind you) is making decisions that exclude virtually everyone except those charge big bucks. You want an experienced producer who can make $100k+ per movie to work for you for virtually free and you want us to tell you how to get this person? Pony up the cash, lower your expectations, learn the task yourself or switch projects. The unrealistic expectations are going to kill you. The only one who is going to take your tiny amount of money offered is someone who will scam you or waste your time.
 
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Sweetie said:
The director (which you are one of mind you) is making decisions that exclude virtually everyone except those charge big bucks. You want an experienced producer who can make $100k+ per movie to work for you for virtually free and you want us to tell you how to get this person? Pony up the cash, lower your expectations, learn the task yourself or switch projects. The unrealistic expectations are going to kill you. The only one who is going to take your tiny amount of money offered is someone who will scam you or waste your time.
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I took tiny amount of money (there is a percentage as well, but nobody knows how much (and if) we're going to earn. But I do not intend to scam :)
 
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Inarius said:
I have a friend who lived in US for a while, and this is what he told me about the cinematography differences between Israel and US:
"Going to movies is part of their (Americans) hang out. They go to cinema every day, and even more in weekend. You almost never find a cinema hall half empty, while most Israelians prefer to download and watch movies at home, or at work"

And I must say, I haven't been in cinema more frequently than once a year. Almost all those times I saw half of the seats are empty. Even if in Tel Aviv they may be a little more crowded, this is the reality.
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This may be one of those "grass is greener on the other side" kind of situations. The truth is people don't go to the cinema every day in America. I remember seeing a stat once that said the average for U.S. movie goers was only six times per year. Most weekdays you'd be hard pressed to find a theater that's half full - in fact I've been to quite a few weekday screenings where there were less than a dozen people in the theater, even in the evenings (and this is in major cities). Most people go on the weekends, but even then it's generally only the latest films that fill a theater - once a film has been out for a couple of weeks even weekend screenings will often be less than half full.

The difference may just come down to sheer population size - Israel has a population of just over 8 million people, while the U.S. has nearly 320 million people. If you consider that only a small subset of the population will go to any given film, then the easiest way to have a successful film is to market and release it to the market with the largest total population. Releasing it only in Isreal would be similar to releasing a film only in New York or LA - which actually happens with a lot of smaller films, and in general none of them make a significant return at the box office.
 
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ItDonnedOnMe said:
This may be one of those "grass is greener on the other side" kind of situations. The truth is people don't go to the cinema every day in America. I remember seeing a stat once that said the average for U.S. movie goers was only six times per year. Most weekdays you'd be hard pressed to find a theater that's half full - in fact I've been to quite a few weekday screenings where there were less than a dozen people in the theater, even in the evenings (and this is in major cities). Most people go on the weekends, but even then it's generally only the latest films that fill a theater - once a film has been out for a couple of weeks even weekend screenings will often be less than half full.

The difference may just come down to sheer population size - Israel has a population of just over 8 million people, while the U.S. has nearly 320 million people. If you consider that only a small subset of the population will go to any given film, then the easiest way to have a successful film is to market and release it to the market with the largest total population. Releasing it only in Isreal would be similar to releasing a film only in New York or LA - which actually happens with a lot of smaller films, and in general none of them make a significant return at the box office.
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Well, yes, I agree with that too. US is probably the only country in the world which also targets the international audience, while all other countries make movies for their own population. Well, maybe not the only, because Japan starts doing it too. Maybe Israel should create an alternative to Marvel universe, with it's own superheroes :lol:
 
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ItDonnedOnMe said:
The difference may just come down to sheer population size
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Exactly. The statement that "They (Americans) go to cinema every day,
and even more in weekend." does not mean that all Americans go to
the cinema every day. Israelis go to the cinema every day and even more
on the weekends, too. As IDOM said, Israel has 8 million people. One
hundred million Americans never go to the cinema at all.

According to the MPAA 11% of Americans go to the cinema once a month,
47% go to the cinema six times a year and 32% never go to the cinema.
More people in California go to the movies six times a year than the entire
population of Israel.

So it's sheer population size that means a movie released in America has
a better chance of making money than one released in Israel alone. Not
so much apathy of Israeli audiences.
 
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Sweetie said:
This is wrong. The Americans do it better than most others though.
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Why is this wrong?
The fact that some movies from different countries succeed abroad, is NOT because they are targeted to the world. They are made for its own country, but it happens that sometimes they attract other countries. That's all. No Russian, Israeli, European and Asian movies are purposely made for the world. The only exceptions are probably Japan, Germany, Canada and UK, but this is doubtful, too.
 
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You may be right. Could that be because in Russia, Israel, Europe most
movies are financed by the government?

I'm sure that part of the complex answer would be most American movie goers
are not interested in foreign language movies.
 
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directorik said:
You may be right. Could that be because in Russia, Israel, Europe most
movies are financed by the government?
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I don't know who finances movies in other countries, but in Israel, the government barely, if not at all, finances movies. Many Israeli movies are finances by Germany/France/UK. Or by independent investors, who are interested that the movie will be made. Fortunately, during the last years, some good movies start to appear in Israel. But again, it is very doubtful that foreign audience will be interested in them.

P.S. Are American movies not financed by the government?

directorik said:
I'm sure that part of the complex answer would be most American movie goers
are not interested in foreign language movies.
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I think this is true. There are enough movies in America plus in other English-speaking countries.
 
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Inarius said:
Why is this wrong?
The fact that some movies from different countries succeed abroad, is NOT because they are targeted to the world.
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You think the James Bond and Harry Potter series of films were only "targeted" to British audiences but just got lucky? I think you've a very simplistic view of how commercial films are financed/made.

ItDonnedOnMe said:
The difference may just come down to sheer population size - Israel has a population of just over 8 million people, while the U.S. has nearly 320 million people. If you consider that only a small subset of the population will go to any given film, then the easiest way to have a successful film is to market and release it to the market with the largest total population.
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Population size is only a part of the equation, if it weren't, the majority of Hollywood blockbusters would be effectively Indian or Chinese. America is a rich country and a significant proportion of Americans are willing and able to pay substantial amounts to go to the cinema. For this reason, cinema ticket prices are higher in the US than in most other countries and 4 times or so higher than in some countries. Factoring in the cost of building, equipping and operating a cinema and other economic factors, in countries with significantly lower ticket prices more of the box office receipts need to go back to the cinema owners rather than going to the film's distributor. A major domestic distributor in the US would expect to get somewhere around 50% of the box office receipts but the same film might only net the distributor 20-30% in other territories. It's possible that 5 million people going to see a film in the US might earn the distributor the same amount of money as 25 million in some another countries. This is a gross over-simplification of the often complex economics within the film industry but essentially American cinema-goers are worth more or considerably more to film makers/funders than the cinema goers of just about any other country, plus of course there are 320 million of them and a relative high proportion are cinema goers! It's this combination of factors which explains why the USA is so important/dominant in the film industry.

G
 
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Why is this wrong?
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It just is wrong. That's why. It's along the lines of asking why 1+1=4 is wrong. It just is wrong.

APE somewhat beat me to it.

International filmmaking is not a market that is limited to the Americans only. The truth of it is most films suck, thus never get distribution of any kind. Others that survive this bugbear are often swamped by ideas that don't travel well outside their area (for an example, take movies about Baseball/Gridiron, they rarely perform well outside the US) or are so small in scope it has a hard time gaining traction in anything but a niche audience.

It's usually the quality of the package, the film and its scope.

This is of course overly simplified. Marketing, week 1 performance, star power, genre, windowed releases, infrastructure, budget, how concepts relate to certain countries and many more factors come into play.

There are plenty of films that are made outside USA that get a release in other countries. Just because you're not aware of them, doesn't mean they don't exist. Look up Taken and Taken 2 if you want a couple of examples.

Also be aware, just because films aren't international box office hits doesn't mean they don't get an international distribution. Take for instance, Woody Allens films (at least before his latest press). They're smaller budgeted films which attract talent and play rather decently.

Films that sell are made to fulfill the needs of a market. If the needs are international, it'll sell internationally in the appropriate countries. Part of learning film finance is understanding this.... your so called "Dirty work".
 
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