The Art of the Critique

AudioPostExpert said:

Hmmm, I'm not sure I agree entirely with your post. Certainly intention is the deciding factor but I wouldn't draw the line specifically at Youtube. If the OP's intention is purely an experiment then yes, anything goes and my critique/advice would only be potentially interesting or helpful for future projects (with a different intention). If the OP's intension for his web series is to stand out from the crowd and get noticed then I believe my critique/advice is very valid. Granted Youtube has no specific technical audio requirements, as do commercial distributors/broadcasters, but the critique/advice I gave was not about technical audio/music requirements, it was entirely about aesthetics. With the constantly growing ocean of content on Youtube and similar platforms, it's increasingly difficult to get noticed and the aesthetic quality bar is rising proportionately. I don't believe that almost anything/everything (aesthetically) is fine, at least not anymore and if getting noticed or a significant number of followers is the intention. Just my opinion though.

G

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Thought I'd start a new thread, as some of the things I want to say are not directly related to this thread


I can't say I disagree with the points you make. I really don't. There's nothing better than valid constructive criticism.

I think my original reaction was really a reflex. Sometimes I find the critiques so unkind, even if they're not, or not meant to be, I just feel itchy

Here's my critique of your style ( haha)

- I make a film "A", and I say "Hey guys, look, I made a Western."
- You say, well, not only does it not look like a Western, it doesn't even sound like a Western, and those gunshots sound like fake pops, and when you're handling the gun, it's obvious it's plastic.

And let's say you're right. My critique of this type of criticism is that it doesn't help me, other than tell me that my film doesn't measure up. I know my film doesn't measure up, but doesn't measure up to what? My film sucks compared to a $100mm movie, a $1mm movie, a $100k movie or a $1k movie? I know my film sucks, but compared to what is the question, and within my budget, how do I solve my problem?

The answer can be as simple as "When he is handling the gun, replace it with metallic gun handling sounds and it wont feel so plastic-y." If the answer is that it cannot be solved within my budget, then that information must be included in the criticism. Otherwise it seems like there is a solution within my means, but I'm being negligent as a filmmaker. If the solution is within a couple of thousand dollars and a little practice, that someone could actually scrape up, then fine, tell me how.

If the solution means hiring an expert and spening $50k, then it's not for my current situation is it? So that's what I primarily find lacking in the criticisms, solutions; precise, specific and applicable solutions. The solutions seem to be too general, and the critiques seem too specific, not from you, but in general.

Also, there are certain things I don't know what to think of anymore.

For instance, the audio tests that you heard in my thread, http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=57050, someone locally corrected the audiotest1 for me and sent it to me. I still like my audiotest4 version a lot better. He used KRK Monitor Speakers and a better facility than my living room, but I still like my audiotest4 version a lot better on my BX5 MOnitor speakers. So I don't know what to do, even though I know he's much more experienced, compared to my zero experience. I like my version, not just a bit better, but I like it a lot better. So... I don't know.

Also, everytime I listen to the same audio, I can now hear something else wrong with it that I hadn't noticed before. And most people listening to the clip on youtube, wrote me emails about how much they liked it and how professional they thought it was. Of course I know that it isn't, and I can hear more and more correctable mistakes every time I listen to it. But at some point, the marginal utility of perfecting the audio even, must go down to the point where it's not worth it, especially if I'm not planning a theatrical release of my video.

Regarding storytelling and color correction and lighting, I don't even want to go into it, but so much of it is taste, and people act like their way is the right way, and traditional ways are the right ways. If I don't make my Western a barren sepia looking Arizona kind of movie, people will say "it doesn't look like a Western." But if Lars Von Trier decides to make a Western that looks like Transformers, people will say "my god, what an artist, what a genius!"

It's all so subjective, and people are so quick with the criticism, and not as quick with specific solutions that it seems to me like a game.

Saying things like "praise doesn't help a movie, but a good critique will make it better" is cute. But it's not true. I'm not necessarily praising the movie, but I try to offer corrective criticism. If I think that someone did something a certain way, but maybe if they changed it in their next film, maybe thus and so... that's my approach. The current film has already been shot. Calling it out on all it's mistakes, without saying how that can be improved "exactly" is useless, if you ask me.

I'm not saying that's what you do, but I know you have the ability to offer exact criticism and possible solutions, so I'd love to see more of that from you.

So I started this as a response to APE, but honestly, even when critiquing scripts, or color correction, people seem to go nuts. Don't tell me my opening paragraph is "boring." What on earth does that even mean? Oh, it's boring to you!! Tell us why? Do you find the genre boring? Or is this your favorite genre and you still find it boring? Then tell us why? Tell us how a film in the same genre overcame this problem, as can be seen by reading script such and such, or watching movie such and such. WTF is "boring?"

Constructive criticism means, "this is how you correct the problem," not "your film/script sucks. There. I helped you by not praising you. And I'm cool, because it's also the title of a book they recommended me in film school."

Anyway, that's my initial rant/thoughts on this subject.

Have a great evening everybody.
Aveek

You know, Aveek, of course your feelings are valid, but I see it as sort of a Yin and Yang sort of thing.

I think the brave souls who put their work up and ask for criticism would be much poorer for it if either you or APE failed to or abstained from posting your disparate points of view or approaches.

To put a fine point on it, again, they would be all the poorer for it if they didn't get both the Trueindie Treatment and the APE Treatment.

You're like the nurturing mother (God bless you)('Cause who doesn't love their nurturing, supportive mother?), and APE is like the stern, stiff upper lip disciplinarian father (God bless him too, 'cause maybe they need the "reality check"?).

If I were king, each poster looking for criticism would get critiques from the both of you. As well as from everyone else, of course. Seriously, if I were king, even if one or both of you were disinclined to or refused to give your critiques, I would have you both compelled to do so. I could do that, see, 'cause I would be king, and the king can do that.

So, I think it's all good overall. You two kind of balance each other and the spectrum of input out, and that's good for everyone involved.

I think you make a valid point.
A good critique is indeed more than saying how bad something is or how it is done in Hollywood or the professional world. (However that info can be really insightfull for future projects.)
'Hands on advice' is how I like to call tips/tricks/solutions one can actually apply within his/her means. Things that can be done NOW instead after robbing a bank or 2
It takes a creative DIY view on the subject to figure out some of these solutions.
Will these solutions make things perfect?
Probably not, but it is a step in the right direction

Thanks for reminding us all we can often do a better job when posting feedback
Yet still, the professional look and solutions shouldn't be left out.

Well put, Richy. In my history with IT, I can only think of two people who routinely did a disservice by offering a critique. One of those people has (rightfully) been banned, and the other continues to tell people that they stopped watching after 15 seconds.

I don't always agree with APE, but he offers detailed responses, and a heck of a lot of very valuable knowledge, in a field that most filmmakers (myself included) tend to be lacking.

Plus, let's take a moment to recognize that the internet is the Wild, Wild West. Compared to other places in the intersphere, IT is rather civil. Anyone who posts their creative work and asks for critique should be prepared to read those critiques with a filter. This isn't like asking your teacher, your friends or your mom.

While my youtube videos haven't gotten that many views, I will say that nothing drives me crazier than seeing that someone gave my video a thumbs down, but they didn't leave a comment to tell me WHY they did so. What didn't you like? The story? The voice acting? The music? The editing? The admittedly cheap animation? What? If you don't tell me, I have no idea what needs to be improved!

I do agree that there needs to be a constructive element. Saying it looks like 'bleep' and leaving it at that isn't helpful. There is a script writing forum where one of the rules is you have to give reasons for criticisms.

Of course it helps if you get crits. I've a few up now in the screening room, asked for crits and received non. I dunno, may they are perfect (I without doubt know that they are not! Just so that's clear).

To go back to the earlier point, I think that you can have the 'disciplinarian father' who tears a piece to shreds, but they still have to offer solutions or at the very least be specific.

My opinions, obviously.

1) - A constructive criticism is about the work, and never about the artist himself.
2) - A constructive criticism should be specific, not "Good" or "Bad"
3) - A constructive criticism shouldn't do any generalizations
4) - A constructive criticism shouldn't force one's opinion on the artist
5) - A constructive criticism should help the artist, not promote the criticizer
6) - A constructive criticism shouldn't force the artist to justify himself as an employee to a boss