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How scripts should be critiqued? and by who?

pedramyz

pedramyz

There is a lot of controversy when it comes to critiquing a screenplay . Opinions differ from one another. But what are the most important aspects of a screenplay?
Is it the scenario ? The dialogue ? Grammar? Character development ? Twist? Uniqueness?
we know all the factors above should be checked if we want our script to turn out good. But honestly is grammar as important as the story?
Also what sort of people should vet your screenplays? What sort of people can actually give you decent advice on improving your screenplay? John Truby says if you give me any 10 pages of your script I can judge if it's a good one or not . Is that really the best way to realize if a writing is good? maybe some guy reads some 10 pages and finds many aspect of the screenplay incomprehensible. while maybe 30 pages later those ambiguities will get clarified. Or maybe the characters in a specific page end up in a weird place where people talk weird and do not talk grammatically correct. Is that a strong implication that this guy doesn't know how to write in english?
 
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pedramyz said:
But honestly is grammar as important as the story?
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Yes, grammar is as important as story. Think of a movie you love,
one you watch over and over and over. Would you still love it if it
was out of focus in parts? Would you still love it if camera angles
chopped off the lower half of the actors face?

People need to be able to read your screenplay without being
subjected to grammar mistakes. To your other point; characters do
not need to speak using perfect grammar. No one is suggesting that.
When people talk about perfect grammar in a screenplay they are
talking about the writing not the dialogue.
pedramyz said:
Also what sort of people should vet your screenplays? What sort of people can actually give you decent advice on improving your screenplay?
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It's fine to let many people read your screenplay but the reason you
are asking this is because you are right to be concerned about peoples
opinions. Other writers will tell you how they would write a scene and
that's not helpful. Very few people understand how to read a screenplay;
yes they read news stories and some read novels but very few people
read screenplay on a regular basis.

The only people who really matter are those you can move your screenplay
up the ladder to the people with the money to buy it. Everyone else is
just opinion.

pedramyz said:
John Truby says if you give me any 10 pages of your script I can judge if it's a good one or not . Is that really the best way to realize if a writing is good?
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Turby is correct. The first ten pages filled with ambiguities is not necessarily
a bad script. A well written script will intrigue the reader into finding out more.
The first ten pages of most scripts I read are just flat out boring. Or so poorly
written that I know I do not want to spend another 60 to 90 minutes reading.

pedramyz said:
Or maybe the characters in a specific page end up in a weird place where people talk weird and do not talk grammatically correct. Is that a strong implication that this guy doesn't know how to write in english?
Click to expand...
No. it isn't. Yes, there are challenges for an unsold writer to grab a readers
attention. Try to meet to and rise above those challenges
 
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if there is ambiguity that needs to be resolved then those first ten pages absolutely must leave the reader in suspense for the resolution. if your 10 pages are all boring setup and you believe that it will redeem itself later - you're probably wrong and you just have a boring script.
 
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pedramyz said:
There is a lot of controversy when it comes to critiquing a screenplay . Opinions differ from one another. But what are the most important aspects of a screenplay?
Is it the scenario ? The dialogue ? Grammar? Character development ? Twist? Uniqueness?
we know all the factors above should be checked if we want our script to turn out good. But honestly is grammar as important as the story?
Also what sort of people should vet your screenplays? What sort of people can actually give you decent advice on improving your screenplay? John Truby says if you give me any 10 pages of your script I can judge if it's a good one or not . Is that really the best way to realize if a writing is good? maybe some guy reads some 10 pages and finds many aspect of the screenplay incomprehensible. while maybe 30 pages later those ambiguities will get clarified. Or maybe the characters in a specific page end up in a weird place where people talk weird and do not talk grammatically correct. Is that a strong implication that this guy doesn't know how to write in english?
Click to expand...

It's all important. Let's say you're trying to sell a Lamborghini. And it's sleek, and fast, and every inch is honed to microscopic precision. But it has square wheels... You see where I'm going with this.

If by "grammar," you mean your action descriptions are filled with grade-school level mistakes, typos, errors, nobody will want to read the damn thing. It bespeaks sloppiness, unprofessional laziness, and total disrespect for your reader. It's ALL about the reader. That's who you're writing for -- they're "god." Anything else is navel-gazing.

Every reader, if they're honest, can bring something helpful to you as a writer. Every honest critique is a good critique. Obviously, the more experience they have in the business, the better. But even writers who don't write in our genre (say novelists or short story writers) can bring a deep understanding of the fundamentals of good dramatic story telling, which are universal and transcend genre. Don't overlook them as a resource.

In my opinion, Truby's right. He's right that ten pages tends to be a big enough base sample of your talent as a writer to judge the rest of the script. Sure, every writer has a bad day, maybe they pounded out a crap scene while hungover from mainlining a gallon of Jägermeister the night before, but they have all the time in the world to perfect every single scene, every single dialogue block, every single slug line, every single action description before they send it to a reader or a contest or an agent. A sloppy scene has no excuse except sloppiness.

Don't be sloppy. Please. Every detail, every period, every em-dash, every single word of dialogue, each scene, each story beat, make it glisten like wet gold in the sun. After all, you have ten million wannabe writers hot on your ass, reaching for the same bloody star as you.
 
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directorik said:
No. it isn't. Yes, there are challenges for an unsold writer to grab a readers
attention. Try to meet to and rise above those challenges
Click to expand...

well that's my point. Can writers who do not follow the conventional wisdom concerning script writing still sell their scripts? ( It has been done before by many, again I mention David Lynch for example). I think partially it has to do with luck. You know finding a producer who happens to enjoy your weird ideas:lol:
 
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pedramyz said:
well that's my point. Can writers who do not follow the conventional wisdom concerning script writing still sell their scripts? ( It has been done before by many, again I mention David Lynch for example). I think partially it has to do with luck. You know finding a producer who happens to enjoy your weird ideas:lol:
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I can't think of any. I'm sure there are a few examples, but none
that meet your specific criteria; first sale. As you point out the writer
must find a specific producer who shares their weird ideas who can
find a director who happens to enjoy those weird ideas.

You're right, that takes a lot of luck. I guess it can be done. Is that
that you are hoping for?

David Lynch isn't a good example. He never sold a script that did not
follow the conventional wisdom concerning script writing. The first
script he "sold" was "Blue Velvet" only after his success as a director
not as unconventional a script as one may think. He did not sell the
script of "Eraserhead" (as unconventional a script as there ever was)
to a producer - he produced it himself.
 
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directorik said:
He did not sell the script of "Eraserhead" (as unconventional a script as there ever was)
to a producer - he produced it himself.
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Yes, but he received assistance from AFI , and couple of donations and funding from variety of sources. which as far as new filmmakers should be concerned, is enough to turn their ideas into a movie.(If their movie is low budget of course)
 
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pedramyz said:
Yes, but he received assistance from AFI , and couple of donations and funding from variety of sources. which as far as new filmmakers should be concerned, is enough to turn their ideas into a movie.(If their movie is low budget of course)
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Mr. Lynch created "Eraserhead" in the mid-70s. The DIY indie film culture as we know it today did not exist, so he did not have the huge number of competitors for funding that exists today. He was also able to convince all those who eventually became involved that he was talented and dedicated enough to be able to carry the project through to completion. He was as much a salesman as a director. He didn't sit in his room waiting for results, he personally visited dozens of people to obtain funding. You must also factor in that, from the very beginning, he was truly brilliant. And not matter how unconventional his scripts were/are the technical aspects of their presentation (formatting, proper grammar, spelling, etc.) was/is always almost perfect.
 
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