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Rewrite rewrite and rewrite some more

dlevanchuk

dlevanchuk

Getting a bit irritated!! Just when you think you re done with your story after multiple rewrites, and promise to yourself "ok, that was the last rewrite" , you start breaking down the script.. And reading it .. And you say "hey! This should go completely different direction!" and find yourself starting up celtx or final draft once more lol

Just when I though I was satisfied with my story, I start picking on it and find a whole lot of issues and problems that I'm not happy with. Ugh!

I know that writing is re writing but DAMN son! I want to go out and shoot stuff already!! Lol

Does anybody have the problem or unable to stop rewriting?
 
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Happens to me all the time! I'm working on the 4th or 5th draft of a feature screenplay right now, and just decided the supporting characters need to be crazier and one of the main characters needs to be about 10 years older. And it needs more conflict.

I'm rewriting a short script right now, too, because I decided it's going to be too much of a pain to film. So I'm simplifying it and at the same time trying to make it stronger thematically.
 
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Does anybody have the problem or unable to stop rewriting?
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NEVER!!!! :lol:

One script I worked on went back and forth between me and my co-writer/director. Version 12, draft 6b. There were like 30 re-writes in there. In another case, at least 40 passes (over two scripts in sequel). However, in that case, the cast kept changing too!

While I think it is possible to over-work a script, generally most are under-revised. I don't even think about submitting a script unless I've passed over it at least 8-10 times. Usually grammar and spelling disappear by pass four. Continuity and plot by pass seven. However, dialogue and pacing are always nagging. BUT since the director and actor will mess that up anyway :hmm:, I usually feel comfortable about pass ten.

I pass it off then get it back with notes from the director/co-writer about "What if s/he did or said this instead?" And so another slew of drafts start. Fortunately it does get easier and a little faster once the big polishes are done, in my experience ... until a "character" has to be changed/die/have more or less lines/etc. :weird: Then it's another round. And I wouldn't mind if these weren't 30 to 90 page scripts! Usually by revision 24 I'm ready to throw up my hands and say "Just shoot the frickin' thing!" We persist a bit longer and usually it works itself out.

And in reality, I've auditioned for a couple shorts where the directors wrote them and SHOULD have done more revisions (and research) ... or at least passed it by someone with experience, especially when dealing with medical/legal terminology. However, in the end it comes down to "Is this shootable within the constraints of budget, time, talent, and resources?" A screenplay can be brilliant; but if it's unshootable, it's just wasted paper (or electrons) at that point in time. If it's a good short, you can always reshoot it as director at another time incorporating changes. The best advice I received was to not overthink the script. There's a lot of woulda-shoulda-coulda but keep the script clean and let the actors provide backstory (which they'll do anyway!).

So, no, sorry, I can't relate to making multiple revisions. :lol:
 
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I don't usually do that many rewrites once it hits layout. I tend to write things out on paper (draft 1), type what i have on paper into a word processor and make any needed changes (draft 2), retype into celtx and make any needed changes (draft 3), print and edit on paper (draft 4), update script. Then I pass it along for feedback, take their notes and do another draft (draft 5). Table reads bring another round of changes (draft 6). Then as locations change, actors change, budget and time issues rear their heads, etc more changes (drafts 7 to who knows what).


If I decide to make changes that drastically change the story I fork that off into another story or place it into file for future projects.
 
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You need to walk away from your script for a while. Maybe days to a couple of weeks. Watch movies similar to what you are writing, think about your market, watch more similar movies, then go back to your script.

I just realized with my current script my market is television. Stories must be family friendly with characters that a family can invite into the living room of their house. Programming executives like stories that families can relate to. So, the version I'm working on now will punch out more family friendly relations between characters.
 
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I'm writing...well it was SUPPOSED to be a research book, and I guess it still is, but since I've been punting around ideas of maybe one day turning it into a script for a research documentary, well-I've sometimes been caught between the two.

Have to remember that a book and a screenplay are going to have entirely different setups, ect (obviously). It's hard sometimes not to rewrite the "book" with script/screen play leanings.


Also going through the old 'is this enough/too much/not enough' scenarios-those are fun:lol:
 
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FantasySciFi said:
While I think it is possible to over-work a script, generally most are under-revised.
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Yeah, you understand that you're just wasting time and effort for naught moving rice grains about the plate once you consider how much everything is going to be changed by everyone before the distributed product comes out.

FantasySciFi said:
Usually by revision 24 I'm ready to throw up my hands and say "Just shoot the frickin' thing!".
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Exactly.
Even if the same screenplay was shot by the same director three times three years apart there would still be three different director's cuts, three different editor's cuts, three different budget and location changes, and three different actor delivery changes.
Screwit.
Get a structurally sound screenplay down, sit back, and let the dogs tear it up.

FantasySciFi said:
However, in the end it comes down to "Is this shootable within the constraints of budget, time, talent, and resources?" A screenplay can be brilliant; but if it's unshootable, it's just wasted paper (or electrons) at that point in time.
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Beautiful.
This is the precise difference between writing for available resources and pie-in-the-sky writing.
Two C O M P L E T E L Y different critters.


FantasySciFi said:
The best advice I received was to not overthink the script. There's a lot of woulda-shoulda-coulda but keep the script clean and let the actors provide backstory.
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Bronze this. :yes:
 
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I have rewritten so many short stories and poems that at the end, they are but a snippet of what the original ideas were. Only problem is that by the last version, I sometimes forget what the original one was about because I hardly ever store the original separately, I always just change on top of the first one.
 
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I used to copy over the old version. But then after I changed the ending to one of my screenplays, someone who had seen both versions asked to see the previous one again to refresh him memory. After that, I started saving the old versions as well.
 
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Just a quick note since there is already a post on copyright. Every time you make a major re-write (more than just fixing grammar, spelling, formatting), save a copy. Especially save your original. You want to keep a record of your creation to protect your copyright. Nowadays, a few kilobytes is nothing. But that time-date stamp can be important.

Again, it's not something most writers think about. But you want to keep track so that down the road, if your script has been submitted and suddenly appears on the screen without your permission (or compensation), you have legal proof of authorship. It doesn't happen often, but there are production companies that will solicit scripts and then shelve them for a time. They need an idea, take down an old script, dust it off and shoot it. Most will make a legitimate effort to contact the author. This is mostly directed at features, not shorts. The recent lawsuit involving "Avatar" (http://news.yahoo.com/james-cameron-slapped-lawsuit-over-avatar-plot-192455370.html) is a case in point.

Keep records of your writing!
 
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And now you're waggling this thread under my nose like a tail.

Writing is not rewriting. Writing is writing. If it were rewriting, then it would be called rewriting, but it's not, it's called writing.

Stop paroting these inane catch cries and then embracing them as some kind of law.

You will be greatly aided by knowing roughly what your story is before you start. You'll likely adjust or redraft it, but it should still be the same story. Or you didn't have a story to start with.

Maybe before starting a story you should ask yourself, why are you writing it. What will it say, what will it achieve. How will it affect them.

My stories never change in redrafts. Aspects I focus on, or building on what's there, or a shift in something, but it's still the same story. The sequence of events is established in point form beforehand, and that always stays the same.
 
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maralyn said:
My stories never change in redrafts. Aspects I focus on, or building on what's there, or a shift in something, but it's still the same story. The sequence of events is established in point form beforehand, and that always stays the same.
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Your points are appreciated. Your comments suggest a spec writing perspective. For myself, I was talking about production scripts where changes occur dynamically. And that is how I also read Dima's original question, from the perspective of producing the script.

If you're working with a director on producing your script, how would you handle:

--"Our actor playing the Mrs. X has jumped ship, can you re-write her lines to other characters or change the storyline?"

--"I just found out we can't get the office space for that shoot, can you change it to a warehouse?"

--"Can we give X more lines?"

For working scriptwriters on a production set, re-writes often entail substantial changes to the dialogue and story. Sometimes a script no longer resembles what was originally presented. This doesn't happen so much on large budget productions but on smaller indie productions, it's not unusual as a script starts to head into production (or worse, while in production!).

When writing spec scripts, like you, my stories are fairly consistent except for a few continuity or dialogue issues that I may need to address in subsequent revisions. However, I've learned that once the script is out of my hands, it's likely to be changed significantly. And sometimes even the writer/director must compromise and make changes based on the reality of cast, props, location, and budget.
 
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maralyn said:
Maybe you can give us an example of a movie we may have seen that underwent story changes during production.

I've never heard of it.
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Apparently, I read more scripts. Consider the first four drafts of the original Star Wars script. They can be found at http://www.wheelon.com/swscripts/scripts.htm

The Star Wars - 1st draft (VERY FORTUNATE that it was revised!)
Star Wars: The Adventures of the Starkiller - 2nd draft
Star Wars: The Adventures of Luke Starkiller - 3rd draft
Star Wars: A New Hope - Revised 4th draft (<-- What was 'finally' shot, though there are revisions to the draft)

The award winning episode of Star Trek "City on the Edge of Forever" won awards for both Harlan Ellison and Gene Roddenberry. However, Roddenberry didn't like Ellison's version so rewrote it for the actual TV episode. Both won awards though from different agencies. Please refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_City_on_the_Edge_of_Forever.

I could point out other scripts which differ from the movies. This is no means limited to science fiction. And I'm not referring to cutting films after production. The examples above are from both film and television.

PRODUCTION is a very different beast from SPEC. On this point, I'm speaking from experience.

Addendum:
Most television programs are revised on the fly. In production, you will have colored pages that will be inserted. Scenes will have letters attached to show revisions. There are examples of this for Seinfeld and other scripts. This reference may provide some basic guidance: http://www.spiritus-temporis.com/shooting-script/overview.html
 
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We've written two feature length scripts, each taking just over a year to complete.

We are working on another draft to accommodate the realities of my shooting locations. Along with it, we are going back and removing several superfluous characters, and expanding some others that we wanted to see more of. It never ends, brother.

A thoughtful rewrite is always an improvement. But, if you are feeling like it's a chore, put it down, you are wasting your time. Give yourself some time away from that script and let it percolate in your sub conscience.
 
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maralyn said:
Maybe you can give us an example of a movie we may have seen that underwent story changes during production.

I've never heard of it.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_(2010_film)#Development_and_writing
And
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Expendables_(2010_film)#Development

Also, watch the DVD director commentaries for additional script to screen changes.

Additionally, consider that every deleted scene presented on DVD is something that was (possibly) written, approved by the studio/producer/director, scouted and secured for location, rehearsed, shoot, edited, and still didn't make it to the distributed release due to pacing, discretion, distributor, or MPAA - despite costing tens maybe even hundreds of thousands per minute to produce.

Bonus: https://docs.google.com/document/d/...6pKKZybDsiGx5CoMlb2JunU/edit?authkey=CJXH2tEH
 
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I was asking for titles of movies I might have seen that had their stories rewritten during production, and you post links for me to read.

You sort of have to learn to write, before learning how to rewrite. Otherwise you're just shoveling mud around.

You people glorify something some writer once said, out of context, and then repeat it ad infinitum. Worse, you impose it on everyone who reads here.

Writing is writing. Rewriting is rewriting.
 
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And see, this sounds more realistic:

_Rok_ said:
We've written two feature length scripts, each taking just over a year to complete.

We are working on another draft to accommodate the realities of my shooting locations. Along with it, we are going back and removing several superfluous characters, and expanding some others that we wanted to see more of. It never ends, brother.

A thoughtful rewrite is always an improvement. But, if you are feeling like it's a chore, put it down, you are wasting your time. Give yourself some time away from that script and let it percolate in your sub conscience.
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When he says thoughtful rewrite, what he's talking about is liberating the script as a film, not rewriting the story.

If your story is so flimsy that you don't even know what the story is, how will you even talk to anyone about it? Oh, it exists, so, therefore it is?

That's worse than a student film. You have to give it a foundation of some sort. A spine.

Although, I like to think of my plot points more as a string of pearls.
 
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And, hang on, just let me find the right emoticon:

:crazy:

oh, no, hold up... I'll be nice, this one:

:woohoo:

There's something really wrong going on if a forum doesn't allow writers to think of writing as ..... writing.

You shouldn't be ganging up trying to FORCE people to agree with you, that's kinda weird (parot people) "arc"-"arc"....stuff. The internet has muddled you up into spam or something. You are not the Uberlords of screenwriting.

There are no rules.

And here, look,

the dictionary disagrees with you:

write
   [rahyt] Show IPA verb, wrote or ( Archaic ) writ; writ·ten or ( Archaic ) writ; writ·ing.
verb (used with object)
1.
to trace or form (characters, letters, words, etc.) on the surface of some material, as with a pen, pencil, or other instrument or means; inscribe: Write your name on the board.
2.
to express or communicate in writing; give a written account of.
3.
to fill in the blank spaces of (a printed form) with writing: to write a check.
4.
to execute or produce by setting down words, figures, etc.: to write two copies of a letter.
5.
to compose and produce in words or characters duly set down: to write a letter to a friend.
EXPAND
verb (used without object)
12.
to trace or form characters, words, etc., with a pen, pencil, or other instrument or means, or as a pen or the like does: He writes with a pen.
13.
to write as a profession or occupation: She writes for the Daily Inquirer.
14.
to express ideas in writing.
15.
to write a letter or letters, or communicate by letter: Write if you get work.
16.
to compose or work as a writer or author.

so you see, that.... is, uhm, writing


Rewriting on the other hand:


— vb , -writes , -writing , -wrote , -written
1. to write (written material) again, esp changing the words or form
2. computing to return (data) to a store when it has been erased during reading

— n
3. something rewritten


So, you see, the words have different meanings, out, in, the real world, and writers should be free to use those words as they wish.



writing is writing is writing is writing is writing

writing is writing

writing is ....... writing

:tongue:
 
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