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Old 11-09-2016, 04:39 AM   #31
Maxsdad
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Harmonica, first off, physical evidence is sketchy at best in a criminal investigation. It assists in determining the ORDER of a crime, but rarely the person responsible. Eye witness testimony is the worst, 2 people can't even agree on the color of the vehicle that ran over their friend in the middle of the day. But more people are convicted of circumstantial evidence that all other types of evidence combined. And (without getting into politics) if ALL the evidence points to a single person (like Russian hacking of emails), then you can bet with 100% certainty, that SOMEONE ELSE is responsible. And gloves are a personal choice, they're mostly worn in colder climates. But every peace officer must be able to draw and fire his weapon WHILE WEARING GLOVES. You never have time to remove them. And a fired weapon is impounded IMMEDIATELY after an officer involved shooting, you're not going to have ANY opportunity to swap one with a backup piece. Not to mentioned that when ballistics are compared to all recovered weapons, they're going to wonder why none of the recovered rounds recovered match Officer Bill's weapon, and the number of ejected shell casings BETTER match the number of missing rounds from the clip(s). And short of cremation (1400 degrees for 2-3 hours), there is no way to eliminate all DNA from a body. In both the military and law enforcement, we wear heavy shoes or boots JUST SO there will be usable remains to recover toe prints or DNA. Criminal investigation isn't a modern, magical science, it's nothing more than days and weeks and months of hard work and unending patience. Keep your story simple and you'll have fewer holes. But you can always check with your local community college and ask instructors in forensic pathology, criminal investigation, or basic administration of justice to review your antagonist's alibi. EVERY cop thinks he's Joseph Wambaugh.
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Old 11-09-2016, 06:49 AM   #32
WalterB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harmonica44 View Post
Okay thanks. So let's say he brings an untraceable gun instead. If he were to report the shootout after it happened, then his superiors are going to ask him why didn't he take action with his own gun. He could just say he didn't bring his gun.

................
OMG!

Bringing the untraceable gun was part of the plan to hide his presence at the scene, right?
So, why on earth would he then report the shootout?
He 'wasn't there', remember?

And this is why your characters can't use your logic :-p
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Old 11-09-2016, 01:22 PM   #33
harmonica44
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I'm just asking, cause first I am told he should report it and go along with lying, but then I am told he should bring an untraceable gun, so I am trying to get the idea straight.

I actually thought of the untraceable gun before, but I didn't think the character would do it, cause he doesn't anticipate a shootout happening, when all he is doing is tailing someone, to see what they are up to. But there is still a matter of his DNA being left at the scene. How is he going to get rid of that?
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Old 11-09-2016, 02:05 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by harmonica44 View Post
I'm just asking, cause first I am told he should report it and go along with lying, but then I am told he should bring an untraceable gun, so I am trying to get the idea straight.

I actually thought of the untraceable gun before, but I didn't think the character would do it, cause he doesn't anticipate a shootout happening, when all he is doing is tailing someone, to see what they are up to. But there is still a matter of his DNA being left at the scene. How is he going to get rid of that?
He's conducting a 'black op' tailing potential people of interest - it is actually far more plausible for him to go fully incognito (gloves, disguise, unregistered gun etc) in that context than for him to get involved in an impromptu shootout and then clean the scene scientifically. He's a cop so knows what people are capable of, so even if not anticipating a shootout he should be prepared to take part in one without destroying his career.

Alternatively, the character could be an idiot. They're increasingly common in movies these days
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Old 11-09-2016, 02:27 PM   #35
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I'm just asking, cause first I am told he should report it and go along with lying, but then I am told he should bring an untraceable gun, so I am trying to get the idea straight.
And where is the advice to shut down your brain?
You are not even trying to get the idea straight: you just pick up a square and try to squeeze it in a round hole that is too small.
If you would think it through, you would have figured it out.
If you get a suggestion, you should be able to figure out possible consequences. If you just pick the suggestions and put them in the script without making it fit, it is no wonder your script doesn't work. By now it must be an impossible body of patches if you didn't make sense of everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by harmonica44 View Post
I actually thought of the untraceable gun before, but I didn't think the character would do it, cause he doesn't anticipate a shootout happening, when all he is doing is tailing someone, to see what they are up to. But there is still a matter of his DNA being left at the scene. How is he going to get rid of that?
What DNA on the scene?
Did he get shot?
Did he spit?
Did he pee his pants?
Did he leave items behind?

Last edited by WalterB; 11-09-2016 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 11-09-2016, 10:12 PM   #36
harmonica44
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Okay thanks. I thought maybe a hair would fall out and be left at the scene or something, since in so many homicide scenes, lots of simple DNA like that is found.

If he uses an untraceable gun, do you think that he should still tell his superiors that he saw the shooter, and blame the villain for shooting the dead cop, in order to place blame the villain?

Or is it just smarter to not say anything at all, since he could be caught in a lie, when they do all the investigating and follow ups, since he is guilty of illegally hacking the villains information earlier?
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Old 11-10-2016, 05:37 AM   #37
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You are concerned that if he reports the shooting he will be caught in a lie so he'd beter pretend not to be there, right?

But is your story: you can write whatever you want.

It is on the streets, right?
Hairs lying on the street are a long shot. It is hard to tell how they get there. Make it a bit windy and the hair is gone. Or you want the hair to be found.
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Old 11-10-2016, 07:01 AM   #38
harmonica44
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Well the way I want the story to go, for the MC to never be caught in the dead cop's murder. I want the MC to frame the villains for it. But not sure if he should just say that he saw the shooter, or if he should live to fight another day and not say he was there at all, and catch the villains another way.
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Old 11-10-2016, 07:26 AM   #39
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Well, explore those 2 options. Both have different consequences and only you can explore them.

Last edited by WalterB; 11-10-2016 at 02:32 PM.
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Old 11-10-2016, 10:05 AM   #40
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If he has access to anything owned/used by the people he wants to frame then perhaps he can taint the untraceable gun with their DNA, and then dump the weapon somewhere logical (like a dumpster) where it might be found by CSIs (this is all Dexter stuff again ) That way there is nothing directly linking him to the murder (as shouting "I just happened to be passing and saw them do it" is guaranteed to do).

Your motives are unclear though - do you want him to frame them so that they are arrested, or just so that he himself is not? If it's just so he is not then being careful can perhaps avoid the need for also implicating them at this point.
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Old 11-10-2016, 05:51 PM   #41
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Well basically I wanted it to the MC frames them by getting other cops to go after the gang in revenge. The idea I had was that the MC would plant the gang's calling card on the death of the cop, along with a message from the gang, saying that the other cops who have interfered or gotten close, will meet the same fate.

This causes other cops who are friends of the dead cop to decide to go after the gang and take matters into their own hands, since they do not like the gang getting away with a the murder of a cop, plus threatening the police force with more brutal deaths to come.

So the MC drives other cops to form a death squad if you will... The MC also tricks the gang and makes them aware that a death squad of police are coming after them. This causes the gang to all meet up and formulate a plan, and stick together, in case they are attacked. But they are all going to be together and that is what the MC wants when getting revenge.

So the MC manipulates one side against the other, so to speak. That is what I intend for the MC anyway.
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