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Old 09-23-2016, 05:48 AM   #1
Josh Hill
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Caution ATTACHING AUDIO SET UP TO CAMERA/RIG (HELP)

Hi, looking for a bit of advice here...

I am currently trying to mount my audio set up to my DSLR (canon 600D), I will be using this particular set up for run and gun situations and therefore I need the audio equipment to be attached to the camera or a rig- I will not be using any tripods, boom poles or sound operators in these run and gun situations.

I have recently purchased the Rode ntg-2 and the Zoom H4N, both of which will need to be attached to the setup. I will be using the H4N as an audio mixer for the ntg-2 (the ntg-2 being the primary microphone). I will also be using the H4B to capture stereo sound.

Does anyone know what particular attachment is best to combine all of this together effectively?

Thanks a lot
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Old 09-23-2016, 08:18 AM   #2
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The best bet you have is to mount the ntg-2 on top of your camera and mount the h4n on the bottom of the camera or on the cage or whatever rig you're using to run and gun. If it can't fit, you can always put the sound card in your pocket or mount it to your pants or belt. XLR cables then plug into the left and right channels on the sound card and into your microphone's port, then your 3mm jack plugs from your sound card into your camera to sync audio.
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Old 09-23-2016, 12:16 PM   #3
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Old 09-23-2016, 12:38 PM   #4
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Just so you know in advance…

The NTG-2 is notorious for low output levels, and the H4n is known for "weak" mic preamps. You will have lots of extra self-noise (mostly hiss) from the combination of the two units.

Also, as the NTG-2 is a shotgun mic it is very directional, so will only clearly record what it is precisely aimed at. If the aim is not precise you will record more background noise and less dialog.

I would personally recommend dumping the NTG-2 and the H4n and getting a Rode VideoMic Pro (VMP) and plug it directly into your camera. As the VMP is less directional than a shotgun you'll get somewhat better dialog. It will also save you syncing the audio in post. The difference in sound quality between the NTG-2/H4n combo and the VMP directly into the camera will not be noticeable to most.

And why would you want to record on-set stereo audio? It serves no real purpose in audio post, unless you are doing a nature documentary, in which case you would want a MUCH better stereo recording rig.
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Old 09-23-2016, 12:49 PM   #5
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Recording mono is better than stereo?
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Old 09-23-2016, 03:30 PM   #6
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Quote:
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Recording mono is better than stereo?
For film sound? Absolutely! With the exception of ambient backgrounds or very specialized sound effects you can bet your ass that mono is far superior. Recording stereo in an uncontrolled environment - when applied specifically to film sound - can lead to all sorts of phasing and other sonic problems.
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Old 09-23-2016, 03:42 PM   #7
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I never saw it as a big of a deal because I do both; depending on if I can find the cables. xD
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Old 09-24-2016, 02:42 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quality View Post
Recording mono is better than stereo?
As Alcove said, "Absolutely". What stereo do you want to record? Generally on set the only sound which is stereo is room reverb and background noise, both things you should generally be trying to avoid recording! There are a few specialist occasions when one might want to record stereo but generally the disadvantages of trying to use stereo sound greatly outweigh any advantages. For the relatively inexperienced and even usually for the well experienced, stereo should be avoided.

G
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Old 09-24-2016, 04:35 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioPostExpert View Post
As Alcove said, "Absolutely". on set the only sound which is stereo is room reverb and background noise, both things you should generally be trying to avoid recording! There are a few specialist occasions when one might want to record stereo but generally the disadvantages of trying to use stereo sound greatly outweigh any advantages. For the relatively inexperienced and even usually for the well experienced, stereo should be avoided.

G
Stereo should not be avoided, firstly you're presuming that I am creating narrative film...which I am not. Stereo sound is incredibly important for documentary filmmaking. By the sounds of it the only media content you have considered in your comment is narrative film. I can think of many non-specialist occasions when recording stereo would be a better option.
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Old 09-24-2016, 04:40 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alcove Audio View Post
Just so you know in advance…

The NTG-2 is notorious for low output levels, and the H4n is known for "weak" mic preamps. You will have lots of extra self-noise (mostly hiss) from the combination of the two units.
I never read or discovered this during my research, are you speaking from experience with these two items ?
Even now after researching it again I'm struggling to find issues with the levels of the equipment, if this has been an issue for you I presume it must be due to the setup.
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Old 09-24-2016, 04:42 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quality View Post
The best bet you have is to mount the ntg-2 on top of your camera and mount the h4n on the bottom of the camera or on the cage or whatever rig you're using to run and gun. If it can't fit, you can always put the sound card in your pocket or mount it to your pants or belt. XLR cables then plug into the left and right channels on the sound card and into your microphone's port, then your 3mm jack plugs from your sound card into your camera to sync audio.
Thanks, I've been considering the belt option and I think it could be the best way to go for this situation. Do you know whether there are any attachment items that would allow a secure clip on to clothing, have you used this method before?
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Old 09-24-2016, 06:21 AM   #12
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I have used this method before, but I use a different sound card to you. I don't know if there are dedicated belts for yours.

And when recording foley is best to use stereo instead of mono right?
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Old 09-24-2016, 08:36 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Hill View Post
Stereo sound is incredibly important for documentary filmmaking.
I mentioned this in my first post:

Quote:
And why would you want to record on-set stereo audio? It serves no real purpose in audio post, unless you are doing a nature documentary, in which case you would want a MUCH better stereo recording rig.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Hill View Post
By the sounds of it the only media content you have considered in your comment is narrative film.
Correct, because this is a film forum and the question was about sound-for picture.

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I can think of many non-specialist occasions when recording stereo would be a better option.
If they involve film sound please give me an extensive list. Educate me.
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Old 09-24-2016, 08:48 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Hill View Post
I never read or discovered this during my research, are you speaking from experience with these two items ? Even now after researching it again I'm struggling to find issues with the levels of the equipment, if this has been an issue for you I presume it must be due to the setup.
Most film forums hashed this issue to death four or five years ago. And yes, I have personal experience with this. The issue is budget mics that use an internal battery powered phantom power scheme (NTG-2 and AT897, for example); almost all of them have output level issues. This has been proven in the testing lab, the studio and in the field.

The original "handheld" recorders (i.e. H4 and DR-40) were aimed at the indie music market, which works at much higher volume levels, so the "weak" "noisy" preamps were not an issue. The preamps became an issue when the indie film community started using them. The DR-60 and DR-70 have much better pres, and are aimed specifically at the indie film community.
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Old 09-24-2016, 11:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
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And when recording foley is best to use stereo instead of mono right?
MONO, MONO, MONO!!!

And it's Foley, with a capital "F", as it is so called in honor of Jack Foley, who codified and perfected the process.
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