Canon 70D a good choice?

B

Bold

Hello all, I am new here. I'm looking to buy DSLR equipment with a budget of $2000-ish to shoot a narrative short. I'm visually literate but my technical literacy is still a work in progress, so I'm assuming I'll need plenty of practice with the equipment before I get to the stage of actually shooting this thing.

Anyway, I'm considering the Canon 70D with 2-3 quality lenses and some recording equipment. A rig that can achieve a film look, and I've read promising stuff about Canon cameras especially in concert with Magic Lantern.

For lenses, maybe something like a Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II plus a Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS? And whatever adapters may be needed.

For recording equipment I have no idea. If the unlikely event any budget is left over, that would go towards lighting, which also I have no idea.

Supporting equipment like crane, dolly, shoulder mount, etc. will be DIY, hobbled together separately from the budget, with help from a patient friend with an industrial workshop. Any/all recommendations, reviews, tutorials, and pointers in the right direction are gratefully appreciated!

Cheers,
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I would suggest you Google for reviews on the 70D and read the reviews to see if the camera has everything you are looking for and how the reviewers rate it against other cameras. There are many digital photography magazines out there who give good reviews on DSLRs.

Above and beyond that see if you can go to a store where someone in sales can show you features that are not covered in the reviews. Also, look up for How To videos on the 70D to see if there are ways to use the camera to accomplish your goals.

There are professional photographers and student photographers who work in the sales department of camera stores who can answer your questions. When I was working in the camera department of a department store years ago, reps from Canon, Nikon, and Olympus came to give us lessons on all of their latest cameras we were selling.

I also had an SLR photography class in college taught by a professional photographer who taught us everything from the definition of an SLR to developing prints and negatives in the dark room. All of that is helping me to learn how to use a DSLR today.

Don't forget, you can spend a fortune on glass alone. Price out all the lens you need besides the camera to see if you really have the budget for the camera and the lens you are after. The price difference between a 50mm 1.6 lens and a 50mm 1.4 lens is big enough for you to buy a telephoto wide angle lens with a 50mm 1.8 lens as an example.

Good luck.
 
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I personally think the 70D looks good, although I've seen people depend on it to focus in video and got back a lot of crap. I was shooting a YouTube series, and the master footage I shot had to be subbed in because the guy running the 70D just wasn't pulling focus properly. Don't know if it was operator error, bad eyesight, incompatible lenses, or whether the camera just wasn't good at it. If using an STM lens, it should pull focus well, but this was a big fail.
 
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Hi Bold - and welcome to the world of narrative filmmaking!

I wouldn't buy the 70D for video. It can't record in-camera slow motion because it is limited to 30 frames per second (fps) in full 1080p High Definition (HD). It can't record for more than 30 minutes continuously unless you restart it. Its viewfinder is blocked by the mirror when you record video. It lacks a headphone jack for monitoring what the camera is recording to its audio track.

And it has a problem called "moire" with patterned objects, such as shingled roofs, brickwork and patterned fabrics as seen in this side-by-side with the Nikon D7100 and this side-by-side with the similarly impaired Canon 60D.

In this price range, instead of a still-photography-centric camera, I recommend the $1698 (body only) 4K video-centric Panasonic GH4. This camera can record at 4096x2160 "4K" resolution - 4 times the resolution of the 70D.

It can also record slow motion at up to 96fps in full HD and can record for up to 4 hours continuously. In addition, it has an electronic viewfinder, which you can use when shooting video in bright sunlight, plus a headphone jack and almost zero moire.

Here is the image quality this camera produces:

Narrative

- Without You

- Intersect

- A Fine Dining Experience

- Siren

- Storm

- Writer's Block

- Out of Time

Travel

- Union Glacier

- Postcard from Phang Na

Documentary

- Seize the Day

96fps Slow Motion

- Paris SlowMotion (Vintage Lenses)

- Kaydara (Anamorphic GH4)

Music Video

- Little Tybee - "Don't Quit Your Day Job" at Doppler Studios

It's a pretty good still camera too: Flickr Panasonic GH4 Pool

Hope this is helpful and good luck with your new camera - whatever you decide to buy!
 
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brunerww, wow that footage is amazing. Thanks to you and stef for pointing out some of the issues with the 70D. That Panasonic looks like a solid choice. But Modern Day Myth has a very valid point about glass.: with most of the budget eaten up on the camera, I don't have much left for lenses.

Ideally I'd want three: a wide angle, a telephoto, and a good all-purpose (nifty fifty?) lense. My narrative has themes of claustrophobia (right behind you, nowhere to run) and agoraphobia (in plain sight, nowhere to hide) . Though I don't have any extreme shots in mind, so maybe two lenses can cover these needs? Or maybe a camera which is a happy medium in between the 70D (price) and GH4 (quality), that leaves a little more budget for lenses?

Thanks again everyone for the great info!

Cheers
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edit: I just found this review of the GH4k, which was very informative.
 
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Bold said:
A rig that can achieve a film look,

. . .

If the unlikely event any budget is left over, that would go towards lighting, which also I have no idea.
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I see the gearheads here have sent yet another new filmmaker down the path of broken dreams.

You've got it backwards -- for a "film look", lighting comes before camera. With reasonable cost lighting equipment and correct lighting techniques, you'll achieve a "film look" with an average digital camera (including the one on your phone). A $50k RED isn't going to get you film look without proper lighting.

Before you blow $2K, brush up on your lighting techniques to see if you're up to setting lights before every single shot, otherwise you're setting yourself up to be disappointed and out $2k.

Good luck.
 
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Good news - it looks like the GH4 is on sale right now for $1498, which gives you $500 headroom for glass. Here are a few options:

Classic glass package:

- Panasonic DMC-GH4: $1497.99

- Canon FD 24mm f2.8: starting at about $120

- Canon FD 50mm f1.4: starting at about $45

- Canon FD 100mm f2.8: starting at about $110

- RJ Turbo Canon FD to micro 4/3 Focal Reducer: $140

- Canon FD to micro 4/3 adapter: $11.50

Here's the GH4 with FD lenses:

- Farewell to Capitol Hill

- Tina and Adrian's Wedding

- CineD-GH4-Test RJ Turbo 24mm

10x outdoor zoom lens plus classic glass for low light

- Panasonic DMC-GH4: $1497.99

- Canon FD 24mm f2.8: starting at about $120

- Canon FD to micro 4/3 adapter: $11.50

- Panasonic 14-140mm f3-5.6 zoom: $389

Here's the GH4 rocking the 14-140mm lens:

- Sierra Nevada

- Kite Surfing in Slow Motion (Panasonic GH4, 1080p, 96 fps)

- RED / Panasonic GH4 (slightly NSFW)

Either of these setups will get you started with great glass at or below $2000 (I own the Panasonic 14-140 and a Canon FD 50mm f1.8 and can vouch for their quality).

I don't know how long the GH4 sale will last, but you might want to pull the trigger soon.

Again, hope this is helpful!

Bill
 
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GuerrillaAngel, thanks for pointing out lighting - I definitely plan on investing in decent lighting, but that will come a little later on a separate budget. But I totally agree, lighting can make or break a narrative.

brunerww thanks again for the links, this puts the basic setup within my reach. I came across this site which has a lot of info dedicated solely to using the GH4. Informative stuff.

Cheers,
-Bold
 
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I just got my GH4 today (squee!). In the end I decided to go native with a Panasonic Lumix G Vario 12-35mm lens. I found several threads/forums that recommend it highly as a great all-around lens for beginning videographers. I managed to find a package deal which shaved $350 off the price of buying the body & lens separately so it fell just within my budget. I figure by the time I learn to use this thing competently (i.e. a long time), I will have saved enough to buy another lens or two. Thanks again everyone for your input!

Cheers,
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umm...the GH4 doesn't do 4k internally...you'll need to spend another $2k for an HDMI recorder (such as the atomos shogun). Hopefully the 4k isn't why you bought it.

if I were you I'd pick up the Samsung NX1. Larger sensor (easier to get shallow DOF), H.265 which has increasing support, cheaper, does 4k INTERNALLY, 120 fps slo-mo in the NX1 versus 96 fps slo-mo in the GH4, higher megapixel count for better photos. http://www.imaging-resource.com/cameras/panasonic/gh4/vs/samsung/nx1/
 
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Bold said:
I just got my GH4 today (squee!). In the end I decided to go native with a Panasonic Lumix G Vario 12-35mm lens. I found several threads/forums that recommend it highly as a great all-around lens for beginning videographers.
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Congrats! One of the best ways to practice is to put a short together from beginning to end. 12-35mm is quite limited and I would suggest saving up and filling in the gaps by getting a 50 and an 85 at the very least.

Enjoy shooting!

EDIT: My response did not take into account the size of the sensor. Please see clarification below. Apologies for any confusion.
 
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WhiteOpus said:
umm...the GH4 doesn't do 4k internally...you'll need to spend another $2k for an HDMI recorder (such as the atomos shogun). Hopefully the 4k isn't why you bought it.

if I were you I'd pick up the Samsung NX1. Larger sensor (easier to get shallow DOF), H.265 which has increasing support, cheaper, does 4k INTERNALLY, 120 fps slo-mo in the NX1 versus 96 fps slo-mo in the GH4, higher megapixel count for better photos. http://www.imaging-resource.com/cameras/panasonic/gh4/vs/samsung/nx1/
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The GH4 does do 4k internally, it's just 4:2:0 8-bit, versus 4:2:2 10-bit to an external recorder.

Meh, buy a camera and go out and shoot with it. I've seen 4k footage on the NX1 (and GH4) that look like crap compared to the A7s, but then I've seen GH3 footage that could intercut with an F5.

It's all relative and there's no right or wrong answer, really. Depends on what you like, what you want, and how you like to shoot.

Overall, I think choosing a camera based purely on one or two specs (like slow-mo and 4k) is silly. As well, choosing a camera because it's a popular brand is also silly.

Choose the camera you like the best based on how you like to work, what you want from a camera, and how the images look.

At the end of the day, I'd rather a 70D, a set of Zeiss CP2s and a truck full of lights, than an NX1, a kit lens, and no lights or grip equipment - despite the fact that I'll be able to shoot in 4k and in slowmo on the NX1.

Ernest Worthing said:
Congrats! One of the best ways to practice is to put a short together from beginning to end. 12-35mm is quite limited and I would suggest saving up and filling in the gaps by getting a 50 and an 85 at the very least.
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The 12-35mm is essentially the equivalent of a FF 35mm 24-70mm. It's a fine range - though getting at least a 50 will add a nice option for longer shots.
 
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jax_rox said:
The 12-35mm is essentially the equivalent of a FF 35mm 24-70mm. It's a fine range - though getting at least a 50 will add a nice option for longer shots.
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I should have been more careful before replying. Didn't realize it had a 4/3 sensor. You are absolutely correct and thanks for clarifying.

@OP: Please disregard my previous comment. My reply was for an FF and/or a 1.6 crop sensor.
 
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WhiteOpus said:
umm...the GH4 doesn't do 4k internally...you'll need to spend another $2k for an HDMI recorder
Click to expand...

I think you're confusing the GH4 with the A7s. This is true for the A7s, but not the GH4. As jax says, the GH4 does record 8-bit 4:2:0 4K internally.

WhiteOpus said:
if I were you I'd pick up the Samsung NX1
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Pretty sure Bold (the OP) has already taken delivery of the GH4, so this is moot. That said, I thought seriously about selling my GH4 and buying the NX1 until I saw that Samsung left the 30 minute recording limit in place for non-EU versions of the camera. On the rare occasion when I use my camera to record the master shot for events, a 30 minute continuous recording limit would drive me crazy.
 
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The NX1 certainly has some attractive specs but I'm plenty happy with my choice. I've read a lot of GH4 reviews and watched a lot of example footage, and I'm confident the GH4 is more than enough camera for me at the moment.

jax_rox said:
Meh, buy a camera and go out and shoot with it.
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Ernest Worthing said:
One of the best ways to practice is to put a short together from beginning to end.
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Yep! Learn by doing. As I mentioned above I figure I need time to get competent using the camera, and that time spent will also help determine how I like to shoot, which will help inform my choice of lighting & lenses down the road.

brunerww said:
Pretty sure Bold (the OP) has already taken delivery of the GH4, so this is moot.
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Yep, no going back now :D

Thanks all!
 
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Great choice Bold!

GH4 + 12-35mm f/2.8 is a great safe bet that will be awesome!

Sure on the edges, a person might argue a NX1/BMPCC/whatever might be better in some cases. But the GH4 is simply a better all round camera and more popular, thus my comment about being a "great safe bet".

As for the lens... I absolutely would not want to *only* have that lens.... but if I was forced to only have one lens for *anything* (and no rigging), well I think that is the one I'd go with! Again, a good all rounder and thus a nice "safe bet" here too.
 
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