Any Canon DSLRs as good as the GH3?

H

harmonica44

I keep hearing about the GH3, about how it's really good on noise under low light, and I rented one and tested it for a day. It's pretty good.

However, I am going to the U.S. to shoot a documentary, along with a group and wanted me to be the DP. There will be some low light shots, since it's a documentary and we are shooting crowds outdoors, possible into the late evening. No artificial lighting for those exterior shots unfortunately.

I might need to get a camera that is better on noise. Currently I have the Canon T2i, which is horrible for it. However, I would like to get a camera but still be able to keep my Canon lenses, and not have to get an adapter or anything. Is there a Canon camera that can match the GH3's performance, especially when it comes to noise?

Thanks.
 
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At the $1000 to $1500 used price point they are at now the 5Dmk2 is still a very solid camera. I already sold mine about 6 months ago when getting $1500 was still pretty easy. Expecting they have dropped since then. If you've never shot full frame, it really is pretty darn nice.
 
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True, but H44 already has problems focussing on a ASP-C sensor.
(He wants: very deep DOF and no grain in the middle of the night.)
Fullframe will only shorten the DOF.
(Thus the C300 isn't a good suggestion either. On the other hand both 5DmkII and C300 are a lot cleaner than any rebel.)

@H44:

will you hire or do you want to buy for the project?
 
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Well I have go to a different country. I will mention it to the guy in charge, as to whether or not he wants to buy it or not, but he will save money, if I already have the lenses.

Unfortunately, he will want to do some shooting on city streets and in night club scenes so full frame is probably not a good idea. But if they are cleaner than any rebel, perhaps it's a good idea too. I will have to use his DIY steadicam he built most likely, so not sure how good pulling focus is on it. I have only talked to him on the phone many times and will meet him in person to see the steadicam later before we ship out... And will have to practice on the way. I will ask him if it I can still pull focus on it, the way he built it, or if he can make it so you can.

The GH3 is not full frame though and is still very good on noise. Are their any Canon DSLRS such as perhaps the T4i, that can be as good as the GH3, or do I HAVE to get a full frame if I want to keep my lenses?
 
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Okay thanks, the A7 looks fantastic! The adapter however is too much money for what it's worth. You might as well just by a new lens really. I think what I will do is wait till next year to see what cameras are out and what's available since things are changing all the time in that area. For the current documentary, I will just have to tell the producer that if he wants low light shots, he will just have to get a better camera for me to work with.
 
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Or rent an A7s for the trip/tell the producer to rent one...
Canons 6D is said to be an affordable low light full frame. do some tests in a night club and on the street. It wont look like a night club or a dark street at night if you jack the iso up anyway, it just looks like a well lit street or club, unless you are going for daytime look while filming at night.?.?.
 
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Okay thanks. I saw the 6d under low light, with the short film I helped work on this summer, and it looked a lot better than the T2i for noise, since they shot under low light. Is the 6D as good as the A7?
 
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A7s is extremely sensitive, because you can use insane ISOs (but you will have noise).
But the rolling shutter is more present than in Canon DSLRs.

So, there is no holy grail :P
 
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Actually, in APS-C mode the A7s rolling shutter is as good or better than any of the current Canons. You gain a little noise compared to full frame but it's not a huge difference. It's still useable up to the ISO 50K range depending on your subject and tolerance for noise - certainly better than any of the Canon DSLRs at that level (more comparable to the C100/300).
 
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Okay thanks, it is difficult to see how much noise there is on youtube when it comes to those shots with the high ISOs. In the video at 2:25 there is the beach shot:

http://vimeo.com/99893160

Can anyone tell me what aperture, ISO and shutter speed that was shot at, so I can get an idea of exposure? Not just in the ISO, but the other two as well?

I know I am suppose to light streets when shooting but when you are shooting a documentary, natural light is going to have be used. So for example on my current Canon T2i I have to shoot at f1.4 with the ISO at 1600 or more, to get it bright enough at night, on the street. If I get the A7 and use put the ISO at 50K, with the shutter speed at 1/50 and the framerate at 24, how deep could I close the aperture?
 
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It's math:
51200=(1600x2^X) => 32=2^X => X=5

In simpler calculus:
1600x2=3200
3200x2=6400
6400x2=12800
12800x2=25600
25600x2=51200

In theory you have 5 stops more.
Make it 4 in case you need some more light getting into the lens.
So:
(Aperture)x2^(#stops)=newAperture
1.4x2^4=22.4 => f-stop = 22 !!!! The deep DOF you have been looking for the past 3 years!
 
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I actually see that as the primary strength of the A7s - it's not just that you can shoot in the dark, although that may have useful applications for documentary work. It's that you can shoot with a smaller aperture under similar lighting conditions.

You still need to light if you want to achieve a cinematic look, but you can get away with a lot less wattage, and correspondingly less cost, weight/bulk, heat, etc.

I've noticed the A7s appears to achieve it's high ISOs through processing the signal rather than boosting the gain from the sensor. The result is that as you raise the ISO the noise tends to remain in the shadows without increasing linearly across the rest of the exposure range (at least until you hit the upper limits - ISO 100k+). Thus, if you have at least moderate lighting you can safely run high ISOs while still retaining a fairly clean image - which gives you more flexibility in selecting the appropriate aperture for the shot, rather than being forced to run wide open (or add more lights) just to get sufficient exposure.

It also suggests that - due to the 8bit signal - it's much better to raise the ISO in camera to get the exposure you want than it is to underexpose and raise the signal in post. Internally the camera can work with the 12bit data coming off the sensor before it gets mapped to the 8bit color space. Once it's at 8bit you're going to lose a lot of fine shadow detail if you have to stretch it across the entire exposure range later.
 
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Okay thanks. But I thought that the rolling shutter was the same as other Canon DSLR rolling shutters. Is it worse? Cause I have never had a problem with the Canon T2i rolling shutter, and it's not THAT bad, but is the A7's worse?
 
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In full frame mode it's about the same as the 5DmkII, in APS-C mode it's about the same as the GH4. I've personally never found it to be a significant issue under normal shooting situations with the 5D, so I decided I could live with it - you can always switch to APS-C mode if you're shooting handheld or whip pans, etc.
 
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Okay thanks. Are you saying that the Sony A7 has both an APS-C sensor and a full frame sensor, and you can switch back and forth between the two? So APS-C is better for rolling shutter, during whip pans and faster camera movements then?
 
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It's the same sensor, but when you switch to APS-C mode it uses a smaller portion of the sensor. This makes it compatible with lenses that are designed for APS-C cameras, and it also appears to scan the smaller portion of the sensor at a much faster speed so the rolling shutter is significantly reduced. You get slightly more noise in this mode, but since the camera is so sensitive anyway it's still much better than any of the canon DSLRs in very low light. For HD work it doesn't appear to reduce the resolution at all, as it's still sampling over 3k internally in the crop mode before reducing it to HD resolution.
 
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